Question for natural gas furnace users

[Rebel SS]

OK, all you "up north" guys......I know the majority use LP tanks for yer furnaces and such. What I'm wondering is....news here says over 100 service calls here last two days for "no heat" due to no gas, they replaced over 60 natural gas meters that were frozen. Wouldn't this be due to moisture in the gas supply, I'm wondering? (Natural gas here.) I know the LP tanks you guys have use a different type of regulator on them, do they ever freeze up? Or is it a difference between the liquefied petroleum and natural gas we have? Just thinking gas meters freezing up ain't right...I've never had that happen in my life.....

[LPS]

Have never had mine freeze up.  Fingers crossed...   We have a 500 gallon tank.  Used to have a 250. Using the formula to compare LP to Elec I found out that LP has to be about $1.98 to compare to what I pay per KW for electric.  I pre bought a bunch of LP at $1.39 this year.  I was down to 45% in my tank so I had them fill it up the other day as when it gets real cold your LP has less pressure.  They told me that is a good idea cuz when it gets real cold they get calls of furnaces not working due to that. 

I have a tank changeover thing on my fish house so it is hooked up to two tanks and automatically changes tanks.  I have bought many of those.  They freeze up a lot.  I have one in the garage ready to switch when the one on the fish house freezes up.  Don't know if it is temp changes making the moisture or if it is moisture in the LP?

[HD]

I've never had a problem with mine freezing up either.
I'm down to 35% now, and will be calling for a fill.
I pre bought too..... it's what we get with our tax return money.

[mike89]

never had any issues here either and I pre buy every summer too.. I think I'm in at about $1.25 or so..

checked my tank and I'm 55% so I'm good for a while..

[Rebel SS]

I'm wondering more why the meters freeze up...............

[Dotch]

On some of the older LP regulators there was a vent screen that would occasionally get frosted up. Take a stiff brush to it and it'd be fine. And the diaphragm inside the regulator would get stuck once in a while. A lite rap from a mallet would do the trick to free it up. We had a natural gas farm tap for the first 13 years we lived here with the meter located in the middle of the field. There was a regulator up by the house. Never had any trouble with either one it although they replaced the meter in the field towards the last. That used to be entertaining to read that thing in the dead of winter. Wish we were still on it. Never had to worry about running out. Dealing with the gas company was a PITA however. LP price here has remained steady at $1.32. I'm on keep fill and the LP guy works out of our office bldg. so pretty handy.     

[Boar]

propane starts to boil liquid at -44 degrees, the less amount in the tanks and that closer the temp.get.to.-44,the less.the liquid boils.vapor that causes pressure in the tank. ther for the less prezsure in the tank, the less .flow, yu have 2 regulators, a 1st stage on the tank, which regulates pressure in the main line, and a 2nd stage.on the house which regulates presurre.to the furnace.so u dont blow up. rarely dose a regulator freeze up, theres just not enough vapor boiling off to create.pressure.that.vent.must be kept.clear, but it takes alot.to plug them. weve had many calls of panik, ive got.35.%but my furnace dont run, juzt to.cold. what it warms up it will.boil.vapor.and create pressure..mine did on tuesday night, runs fine now

[greatoutdoors]

OK, all you "up north" guys......I know the majority use LP tanks for yer furnaces and such. What I'm wondering is....news says over 100 service calls here last two days for "no heat" due to no  gas, they replaced over 60 gas meters that were frozen. Wouldn't this be due to moisture in the gas supply, I'm wondering? I know the LP tanks you guys have use a different type of regulator on them, do they ever freeze up? Or is it a difference between the liquefied petroleum and natural gas? Just thinking gas meters freezing up ain't right...I've never had that happen in my life.....

What is the distance from your tank to where it enters your home??
When I worked at Inland Steel mining, we used to have one million BTU heaters in some of the tunnels and the Propane tank located quite a distance away.  We had to use a vaporizer which was a device where the propane ran through it after a certain distance from the tank, where it was heated and continued on it's way.  Without the vaporizer, the lines wouldn't allow the gas to flow very well when it was very cold like it is now.
The vaporizer had a coil in it where the gas would flow, kind of like a still, with a small gas burner located in the middle of it)

[Rebel SS]

Guys, just to clarify, this is concerning NATURAL GAS/ METERS, in the city....no LP here!

[mike89]

thanks for the info Boar, I understand my system better now...   

[Boar]

i thiNJ k reb iz full of natural gas...

[Boar]

yup brougjt lp.into the converstaion by asking if.lp regulators.ever freeze up, what u want me to.say MAYBE.
just thought id clarify how an lp.system works, somebody must be doggin yu, yur all.piszy.and stuff

[glenn57]

  i'm sure glad i got my electric baseboard heat!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cooperman]

Reb, to answer you guestion, I payed $1.35 a gallon for my propane.

[Rebel SS]

Reb, to answer you guestion, I payed $1.35 a gallon for my propane.

  I never asked about propane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LPS]

   DO NOT PEE ON YOUR REGULATOR!!!

[Rebel SS]

yup brougjt lp.into the converstaion by asking if.lp regulators.ever freeze up, what u want me to.say MAYBE.
just thought id clarify how an lp.system works, somebody must be doggin yu, yur all.piszy.and stuff

I never asked how an "LP system" works, if there is such a thing. And I don't want you to say ANYTHING!!! Go smome some gophers or something!    

[Tom7227]

Only mildly less responsive than what I have read so far.

From what I have read the problem in Princeton was a situation where NSP simply didn't have enough gas to serve all their customers and so the company chose to shut off service to about 150 houses in one area.  The offered to put those people up at an AmeriInn and gave them electric heaters to take back to their houses to keep them from freezing.

I have not read anything about frozen natural gas meters or natural gas regulators.

It should be interesting in a few days once there are calls for investigations on why this happened and then all sorts of finger pointing when it is revealed that NSP didn't have a big enough backbone to their system to handle things.  Will there then be a fight when they try to build a new pipeline to bring more natural gas into the area?

[Rebel SS]

I find it interesting that for the last 3 yrs, the gas co ripped up yards, streets, you name it , to run all new lines and put in all new gas meters on the sides of our houses. They destroyed my front yard, boulevard, side yard, and dug out my concrete slabs in my driveway to run new lines (They paid for the new slabs and concrete, but it was a mess for weeks on each street/yard, and 2 years of my work to get my yard back to where it was)  Now the paper reports over sixty meters froze up and all had to be replaced.....why? Will this be another thing they gloss over, or will someone be found responsible? A couple of the guys running the new lines told me that "These shoulda been replaced in THE 70's....these are a disaster waiting to happen"....that's verbatim! Kinda makes ya wonder...I don't know if the frozen meters  included the new meters or not, though. Seems to me it's a gas supply issue...moisture in the gas they're pumping?  News said there were a lot of folks without heat, in addition to the sixty, while the work was being done, and it took them many hours to fix these issues...at -30 outside.

[Bobberineyes]

Reb, to answer you guestion, I payed $1.35 a gallon for my propane.

  I never asked about propane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You did pal, just not cost. I've never heard either of nat. gas meters freezing,  we've always been told to keep em clear of snow debris etc. Mine faces tge north and gets it all, but they did say last year they were gonna come thru and start replacing these old units. Maybe I should tell em NO and leave the oldie but goodie in..

[Rebel SS]

That's all I've ever heard, is keep 'em clear of snow....and maybe cold now, too...

[LPS]

And that may have been the problem Rebs.  Or maybe the default answer for lack of product is to blame something else.  Such as "the meters froze".  That means we ran out of gas.   

[Rebel SS]

Bet we'll never know.....

[Boar]

boy when the rooster crows hes got toast in the oven..go figure

[Rebel SS]

Let's keep the roosters outta the oven. It's all froze up. Where's the pounder and squeezer? 

[Tom7227]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/01/why-did-xcel-ask-customers-to-turn-thermostats-down

[glenn57]

so my question is. if they cant keep up with demand when it gets this cold....................how do they plan on having adequate supplies when they shut down all the coal fired power plants and convert then to gas???????????? huh?????????

[Rebel SS]

It'll run on LP! Thousands of little 1 lb tanks!!! 

[Rebel SS]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/01/why-did-xcel-ask-customers-to-turn-thermostats-down

Thanks, Tom! That's really interesting...I always thought that legally  you COULDN'T shut off a persons heat per the "Cold weather rule"....yet it happened. That just begs for some state serious intervention, IMO....
Pretty soon, we'll all be back to sitting around a fire in the potbelly stove....

[Dotch]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/01/why-did-xcel-ask-customers-to-turn-thermostats-down

Interesting Tom. When the guy was out repairing the furnace a couple weekends ago we had a discussion about when the natural gas had been disconnected on our property. When I told him the farm tap had been removed 20 yrs. ago so there's no chance we can hook up again he said don't be so sure about that. He was saying that the gas company may be looking to hook people back up again who had originally been on the line. When we were disconnected I didn't have the $ to run a new line from the house to the meter in the field, almost 1/4 mile. It was also early February so I had little choice but to switch to LP. After the way the natural gas co. had treated us by shutting off the gas due to a leak on our side of the tap, then waving bye, bye, we'll see ya, have a nice day, it left a pretty bitter taste in our mouths. At least they could've given us a frickin' space heater!  It took three days before we could get an LP tank and another furnace installed after that. It took me a couple years to figure out what had caused the leak. I happened to be looking out behind the grove and spied a piece of bent galvanized pipe above ground on the edge of the field. Neighbor must've hooked our supply line with his ripper.