Minnesota Outdoorsman
Hunting Forums => Shooting, Trap, Techniques, Gunsmithing => Topic started by: markn on February 02/19/19, 12:59:28 PM
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Not knowing anything about this cartridge (other than it looks cool) I'm asking if anyone can tell me any details about it. I am interested in maybe purchasing a Henry lever in this caliber and would like to use it for whitetails. Where I hunt is trees and brush and the farthest shot i have is about 65 to 70 yards. I could look it up on the interweb, but a bunch of numbers on a laptop screen don't mean squat to me. Rather have an opinion from someone that has first hand experience. Thanks, Mark.
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I don't have experience with .45/70, but I do have experience hunting deer in thick woods with a lever action. It is my favorite whether I need to make a quick shot or can wait for my best chance with iron sights while a deer picks through the brush.
Outdoor Life recently published an article: Why the .45/70 Is Still A Great Cartridge for Big Game (http://<https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-45-70-is-still-great-cartridge-for-big-game-and-3-modern-rifles-chambered-for-it>)
Here are my take-aways. There are probably "better" cartridges, but this one will work too. Depending on the load, you can expect some recoil. And Hornady now makes pointy bullets that you can load in tube magazines.
I'm no balistics expert, but it looks like a 45/70 will hit at least as hard as a 30-30. Maybe someone else can chime in.
I think it would be a fun gun to hunt with.
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I thought he wanted someone with experience with that cartridge. I'd help, but can't. Bet HD can.
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I'm a fan of the gun, but not the cartridge.
Very close range caliber (I have a couple .45/70)
Fun to shoot, but expensive.... almost like throwing rocks at the target. Heavy recoil, high impact. Ballistically, a short range, not a flat shooting cartridge.
Close range Elk, it would be a knock down round.
Deer? Your just putting a big hole in a small animal.
(Kinda like shooting a squirrel with a 410 slug.... hahahaha)
Just my opinion....
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Weren't they kind of the famed Buffalo guns back in the day?
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Dotch! Show us yer gun!!!
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I have always been curious about the 45/70 since I found some shells here in the garage from the previous owners. Finally found a guy who had one and gave him the shells.
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Weren't they kind of the famed Buffalo guns back in the day?
I've heard stories of the cowboys chasing the buffalo down while riding horses, shooting them at close range. Probably was an efficient way to do it.
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Found this history article....
.45-70 Government
By far the best known of the buffalo cartridges used on the western frontier was the illustrious .45-70 Government. Still popular today, the .45-70 was introduced in 1873 and was the U.S. Army's standard service cartridge from that time until it was officially replaced by the .30-40 Krag in 1892. The .45-70 actually continued in military service with reserve and militia units well into the early 1900's.
Like all U.S. service cartridges, the .45-70 became a popular sporting cartridge with American civilian hunters of the time. It was probably the most popular all-around big game rifle cartridge of its era, and was widely regarded as suitable for all North American game, including bison. Remington Arms, I believe, specifically recommended the .45-70 as the top buffalo cartridge for use in their famous Rolling Block rifles.
The .45-70 is based on a fat, rimmed, straight taper case measuring .500" at its base and .475" at its neck. The case is 2.105" long, and the military cartridge loaded by the Frankford Arsenal had an overall length of 2.73". The .45-70 uses .458" diameter bullets.
.45-70 was a chambering offered in many famous rifles. These included not only the famous "Trapdoor" Springfield military rifles and carbines, but also rifles from Hotchkiss, Marlin, Remington, Sharps, Winchester, and other civilian companies. Commercial ammunition was available from most manufacturers.
The most common .45-70 loads used 330, 350, 400, 405, and 500 grain bullets. The heaviest bullets were the best choice for hunting buffalo.
The 405 grain bullet was the weight chosen for use by the Army. The Frankford Arsenal began mass production of .45-70 cartridges in January of 1874. Frankford Arsenal cartridges were loaded with reduced charges of 55 grains of black powder (.45-55-405) for use in cavalry carbines, and full charges of 70 grains of black powder (.45-70-405) for full length (and therefore heavier) infantry rifles. 55 grains of musket powder gave a muzzle velocity (MV) of 1100 fps and 70 grain loads propelled a 405 grain bullet at a MV of 1350 fps and ME around 1600 ft. lbs. Period tests revealed that the 405 grain bullet penetrated 7.3" of white pine boards at a range of 700 yards, but the cartridge's rainbow trajectory limited its point blank range to about 150 yards for man sized targets.
Commercial .45-70 ammunition was loaded with bullets up to 500 grains in front of 70 grains of black powder (.45-70-500). These commercial loads proved to have superior penetration and killing power on large game. In 1882 Frankford Arsenal also began manufacturing a 500 grain bullet. The secret to the .45-70's success on very large game is the superior SD of its .458" bullets.
.45-75 Sharps (.45-70 Sharps)
In 1875 a civilian version of the .45-70 Government was produced by the Sharps Company as the .45-75 Sharps (Straight), and sometimes called the .45-70 Sharps. The Sharps Company liked the name on their rifles to match the name on the cartridge it used, a common marketing strategy at the time. These cartridges were actually dimensionally identical to the .45-70 Govt., and factory loads used a 400 grain bullet at a MV of 1330 fps and ME of 1580 ft. lbs.
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heard that too HD and good read Reb...
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Thanks for the information gents. I thinks I need to look some more before any purchase. Here's a picture I took last night. Still looks like this would be a fun shooter. More power. Watched too much Tool Time when it was on tv.
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Not trying to steal the thread but I'll add my $.02 worth. Our family owns one of the Sharps & Borchardt 1878 45-70 rifles. It was given to my Dad in payment for a debt many years ago and touted as a "buffalo gun" with collector value. After some research that would parallel what Reb included above, it was entirely possible. Here is a youtube video about the weapon and some of its history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMl6FjWkfsM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMl6FjWkfsM)
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Took ya long enough! And , he wouldn't sell it to me, either!!! :angry: But then, I wouldn't either. It's a great piece of history. :smiley:
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Great video dotch. Thanks again for the comments everyone. Might start looking at a 300WSM or 6.5 Creedmore. Headed to Grand Rapids in the morning for the weekend, hope the roads are better than they were last night.
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Thanks Mark! Keep us posted on what you decide to do. :happy1:
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And pics if you buy...............
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:happy1: :happy1:
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My next purchase will be a Creedmore......
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My next purchase will be a Creedmore......
That is a great choice. Meet me at the br and and I will give you my RPR to sample
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bought a 6
5 creedmorw for the wife.
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Have a marlin 45-70 guide gun with Williams military peep sights and a a loop lever for use with gloves in the cold... the modern Hornady Leverevolution factory loads are hotter, more level shooting and have that pointed soft tip that’s safe for lever carbines... don’t put em in the old carbines or old military guns tho! hell of a brush gun. Great all around big game gun. Big thumper. Simple. Small and compact. :bow:
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Buddy has a old hand me down Springfield 45-70 breech block single shot. Like a quigley gun. Very cool. Had custom black powder loads for it. Shot it a few times. He’s used it deer hunting before. Not the same gun it is now. Lot of history on the gun.
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Just came home from Wally world, they got a 45/70 Henry for $797
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I'm pretty sure we will have two 6.5 Creedmore rifles on raffles at our upcoming MDHA banquet. Just saying..... :laugh:
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I'm pretty sure we will have two 6.5 Creedmore rifles on raffles at our upcoming MDHA banquet. Just saying..... :laugh:
And how do I get in on that? Asking for a friend.....lol....
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I'm pretty sure we will have two 6.5 Creedmore rifles on raffles at our upcoming MDHA banquet. Just saying..... :laugh:
And how do I get in on that? Asking for a friend.....lol....
I don't want one!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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HD, I will post our Banquet Flyer soon. Here for your viewing enjoyment, I put a picture of one of them.
(https://tinypix.top/images/2019/02/26/jKkOT.md.jpg) (https://tinypix.top/i/jKkOT)
(https://tinypix.top/images/2019/02/26/jKmL9.md.jpg) (https://tinypix.top/i/jKmL9)
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I have a Remington .410 lever action with the MDH symbol on the stock...
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Momentum Bolt-Action Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor
Hey, HD. We got one of these also. It's up for grabs at our banquet.
41515 Rifle/Scope Combo
24″
Black Synthetic
44.3″
7.8 lbs.
$729
https://www.franchiusa.com/momentum
(https://tinypix.top/images/2019/02/27/jKwJ2.png) (https://tinypix.top/i/jKwJ2)
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Seeing those 6.5 Creedmoors got me to thinking... If I was in the market for a new deer rifle, what would I get?
I really would be tempted to get a 6.5 Creedmoor. It is very popular now with its long range accuracy and low recoil. However, I seriously doubt I'd ever get the opportunity to shoot it over 150 yards, whereas this cartridge shines at long range. If I had a place to shoot it long range, I'd get one in a heartbeat, but I don't.
Otherwise, for deer hunting in the thick north woods I might be tempted to try a scout rifle - with a long eye-relief scope mounted halfway down the barrel. I've always liked the idea of having different types of guns to shoot.
Have any of you guys shot one of those?
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Mark, get a Big Horn Armory Model 89! 50 Cal. :wowza:
$600 on their website.....
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Thanks HD, awesome looking firearm. Still undecided. Going to deer camp Thursday pm to put out cameras on Friday. May have to make a run to Reeds in the afternoon and drool on some stuff. Leaning towards the 6.5 now. Have to see what they have with a bolt on the left side. More to come.........