food plots?

[sochr000]

So, I'm not new to whitetail hunting by any means, but planting food plots is new to me.  I've thrown clover seed on trails before to get grouse, but never anything as involved as what you guys are posting pictures of.  A couple questions about them.

Can I still plant one this year and have it be useful?
What would be a good thing to plant this late in the year?
Without using chemicals what's a good way to maintain a food plot year round?
What's the smallest a food plot can be to be effective? 10'x10'? 25'x25'?(I can't really get a tiller to where I have in mind, so would have to do this with a shovel)


Basically, if I go in with a shovel, pick-axe, and a rake, what should I plant, how big, and where should I plant it?  My land is mostly lower stuff, some swamp, but most is walkable at least.  Wherever I plant will most likely end up being indirect sun, as it's in a dense forest/swamp.

Thanks

[Big E]

The thing to plant right now would be rye grain. (not rye grass) plant it on thick you can't overseed with it. There is no food plot to small it just depends on what you plant in it. If it's a small food plot you obviously want something that can handle heavy grazing and keep growing after it has been nipped. Rye grain can do that. It is also fast to grow and will grow in the poorest conditions. You can broadcast seed it before a rain or if the ground is wet there do it any time. You'll need to kill off any plants that are there with round up and YES you  CAN plant the same day you spray round up. Round up does not kill/stunt seed. If you could weed whip the tall grass a day or two after you spray it that would be good. That would give it time to kill the grass and time for the seed to find it's way to the dirt. It's a very low maintenance food plot. Just remember to plant it thick. You could fertilize it with a bag of 10-10-10 but put it on light.
 There is A LOt you can do as far as maintaining it year round you could go in next year after the rye grain is coming up and kill it with round up and plant clover in there. Just weed whip it or mow it down to no less than 8 inches. You'll want to do that a few times a year until the clover has completely taken over the plot. You may have to seed in more in spots where it's not as thick. Clover willl be putting nitrogen in the soil and be a good weed control if you keep it mowed. Then make it a little bigger every yr. Then you can kill it off and plant whatever in there with all that nitrogen in the soil whatever you plant will take off. Brassicas do very well in damp soils and love nitrogen.
 I did this with a wet area on our land this yr. I went in and planted turnips and they have taken off. In my opinion it's too late to plant them but some people are planting there's right now. I highly suggest rye grain for you. If you have any other questions please just ask or if you don't think this will work for you let me know.

[sochr000]

I'll try the rye grain tomorrow.  Also, should I plant clover now as well?

As far as using round up, would taking a sturdy rake to it work?  I try to use as few chemicals as I can since I'm very near a lake.  If I go in with a pickaxe and a rake to "till" the area, will that do?

With rye grain, is this going to take over if I don't kill it off?  I know everyone normally says to cut it to make it more appealing to the wildlife, but I want to make sure it isn't going to overgrow the area.  It's a 45min drive to this land, so anything that I do isn't going to get maintained too well.

[Big E]

Taking a rake to it will work but it will be a lot of work because I know how thick those weeds can be. Don't worry about tilling the ground though it would help to loosen up the topsoil the rye will still grow. Try to weed whack it if the rake doesn't work.
 Winter rye will over take only where you plant it. It will not reach maturity this yr so it won't seed out. Next spring it will be the first thing to green up and start growing. You can till it up in the spring. It would be best to get rid of the rye in the spring then plant clover but you can plant clover now it just won't be thick. You'll want to put down a lot of rye grain so it comes up thick like a lawn. Rye grain looks like wheat and oats when it first comes up. (looks like grass so you have to imagine how thick you would want a lawn when seeding.) Doesn't leave much room for clover if you have a thick blanket of rye grain.
 Winter rye only spreads through seed. Rye grass is what will spread and take over through the root system. Rye grass looks like grass seed. You want winter rye that looks like long skinny oats. Don't let anyone at the feed store or wherever you go talk you into tetraploid rye grass. I can't stress that enough. If it says rye grass don't go near it especially if you don't want it to take over. I accidently planted a mix that had rye grass in it and it took a good 6yrs to finaly kill it off. 

[Cody Gruchow]

i just planted that tetraploid rye grass in the no till food plot stuff im testing big e so your saying i just got punked with that stuff? do the deer eat it?

[Big E]

You planted it at the right time so it won't grow up to tall and shade everything out. I will tell you this though. Spray it right away next spring. The deer do eat it but don't prefer it at all over clover or brassicas. They will be eating the clover and hammering your brassicas that's in your mix as well so don't worry the deer will be in there. I didn't want to write that on your post thinking you might get mad or think you did something wrong. Deer will be in there so do not panic. I did the same thing (planted a mix with that in it) and let it grow the next yr because the % was mainly clover well by the end of the summer I had tall rye grass and that's it. It established and took off. Our neighbor did it last yr too. Just kill it in the spring then wait 2 weeks or however long it takes to green up again and spray it again. After It's dead you can plant.
 They put the rye grass in these mixes in case the clovers or brassicas don't grow or deer density is way to heavy and wipe them out right away. Rye grass will grow on the hood of your truck so no matter what happens the plot still comes up green and it can handle very heavy grazing as it grows very fast. I've seen mixes that some small companies make that is all different types of rye grasses and it makes me mad. Some guy will go plant it and it comes up thick and the deer don't use it they give up on food plotting and say the deer don't use food plots in our area.
 Cody you should put up a fence in a 2ft circle to see what the deer are eating out of that mix. If they are hammering your brassicas then next spring I would go in and plant a mix of forrage rapes and turnips. Evolved harvest's trophy forage is a good one to plant in the spring. It contains 38% protein and if the deer in your area like brassicas you will want to do this. This mix doesn't have dwarf essex rape in it which matures in 90 days then seeds out. This mix is forage rapes that have a lot longer maturing period and you will be hunting over it when it is PRIME. Plus you will have enough tonage to last into the late season.
 If someone tells you that deer don't eat it until it gets cold out and you should only plant it late summer show them my pics from my post a couple months ago called "a few pics from my food plots" They are hammering it now and after it gets cold they will be in there even thicker. Sorry this is so long but I can talk food plots all day long. I hope I helped.

[Cody Gruchow]

nope i dont get mad about advice especially if its helpful advice.well i maybe able to get some fencing in. i laid it on pretty thick in the area and its right off a well used trail and the camera will be on it when it starts to grow. its called a experiment for a reason. i didnt do anything else in there cause i wanted to test out the soil and see how the deer react to it. i know our perrinials(sp) get hit really hard in november.

[Big E]

That's how I learned and I'm still learning. Just try new stuff until you get a system down then expieriment some more. You don't need much of a fence screen. Good luck.

[dakids]

Last year we planted 1.5 acres of rape brasica mix and they never reached maturity(sp).  the deer mowed them to the ground before they were 2 feet tall.  This year they never got more than a foot tall before they were wiped out.  We will be planting clover next year because the deer ,hopefuly, won't be able to over graze it.