Speed Limit on the Ice?

[Iceberg]

My buddies and I were having a conversation the other night, as cars and trucks were whizzing by the fishhouse going 30+ MPH less than 50 yards away. ??? ??? ???
 We all agreed there should be a 10 or 15 MPH speed limit driving on lakes for all cars and trucks.  We did argue about  what the limit should be set at.  I say 10 MPH

I have my house out away from everybody, the closest fishhouse to mine is more than 300 yards away

What's your opinion on the subject?

[Fishahollik]

Once again common sense isn't so common.

As far as I am concerned, if I am near someone else, I go slow...10-15 mph. If I am over a 100yds away, why does it matter how fast I am going?

[ThunderCAT]

I firmly believe that there should be a speed limit of some sort set. I was on Prior and Waconia over the weekend and too many people tearing around the lake. The speed limit should be set for everyone's safety, including the safety of the people in the car.

I've also heard stories of people that have sped off the lake too fast creating a wave that breaks the ice up on shore. Being someone that typically parks on shore and drives out, I'd be pretty upset if my truck was in the water because someone sped off the lake (not to mention that it leaves everyone else to have to find another way off).

[Spinach]

I'm not sure of the exact speed, but somewhere around 20 mph is too fast on the ice, it causes a wave under the ice, just the same as a boat in open water does. This causes cracks and stresses the ice.

So, just because noone is around you doesn't mean you should go as fast as you want to.

[Bufflehead]

 For snowmobiles, the speed on most lakes is 50-MPH

 I think, now don't quote me on this...all traffic is the same unless posted otherwise

 

[iceman]

unless the MN DNR changed it ..it's 50 mph..

[Wack n Stack]

For sled as fast as you are brave enough to go.

For a truck that all depends on the thickness. On Lake of the Woods and 3' to 4' of ice I am not to worried.

A metro lake with less than 20" I take it easy under 20mph.

[GRIZ]

I don't think they should do anything. We have an idiot once in a while but not a real problem.

Well now that I think about it down in the metro with the lakes being a bit more crowded maybe it would be a bigger problem.

[Iceberg]

As Spinach has already said, you are creating waves under the ice that cause cracks and stress, I have seen a truck going at a high rate of speed towards shore cause enough stress on the ice to crack open and the truck went thru.  I'l have to see if I can find the report that was written up on this subject a few years back   

[DaveO]

I would think that a littel common sense would go a long way. But what do I know

[Iceberg]

I couldn't find the one I was looking for but I found this Canadian one

3.4 Effects of speed

3.4.1 When a vehicle travels over an ice cover, a hydrodynamic or resonance wave is set up in the underlying water. This wave travels at a speed that depends upon the depth of the water, the thickness of the cover and the degree of elasticity of the ice. If the speed of the vehicle coincides with that of the hydrodynamic wave, the stress on the cover due to the wave reinforces that due to the vehicle, and can increase the maximum stress in the ice to the point of failure. The wave action tends to crack the ice in a checkerboard pattern.

3.4.2 Particular care should be exercised when approaching or travelling close to shore, or over shallow water, because of more severe stressing of the cover due to reflection of the hydrodynamic wave. Roads and vehicle approaches should meet the shoreline at an angle of not less than 45 degrees.

3.4.3 If the weight of a loaded vehicle is one-half or less than that determined from Figure 1 as safe for the thickness of the ice being used, speed is not critical. When the weight is greater, and for ice thickness less than 30 inches (75 cm), speed should be carefully controlled and in general be kept below 10 m/h (15 km/h).

3.5 Cracks

3.5.1 The ice usually has many cracks made by thermal contraction or movements of the ice cover. Except at the thaw period cracks do not necessarily indicate a reduction in the load-bearing capability of the cover.

3.5.2 A dry crack with an opening of less than 1/8 inch (0.32 cm), which does not penetrate very deeply into the ice cover, will not cause serious weakening. Where a single dry crack in excess of one inch (2.5 cm) is noted, loads should be reduced by one third; for intersecting cracks of this size the loads should be reduced by two thirds. Dry cracks should be repaired by filling with water or slush.

3.5.3 A wet crack indicates that the crack penetrates completely through the ice cover and therefore affects the load bearing capacity, which should be reduced by one-half in the case of a single wet crack. If two wet cracks meet at right angles the reduction is to one-quarter of that for a good cover. Most wet cracks refreeze as strong as the original ice cover; however a core sample should be taken to ascertain the depth of healing.

3.5.4 Due to normal thermal contraction, cracks sometimes form at the middle of a road in the direction of travel; but these do not seriously reduce the bearing capability if they remain dry. If cracks form parallel to the road, at the sides, they do indicate over-stressing (perhaps by snow deposits from clearing operations) and possible fatigue due to excessive traffic. If such cracks develop, particularly if they are wet, road use should cease at once, and not be recommenced until the cracks are healed.

3.5.5 Fluctuating water levels may produce cracks near and generally parallel to the shoreline. These cracks are often accompanied by a difference in the levels of the floating and the grounded ice. If these cracks are wet, loads should be reduced accordingly. With extreme level differences, appropriate bridging repair (flooding, reinforcing) may be necessary.

[Fishahollik]

Iceberg, can you identify where you found this, I'd like to read more.

[Ice_Hole]

Iceberg, can you identify where you found this, I'd like to read more.

Using my Google skills, I'm guessing here: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_119/CHAP5_3-1_e.asp

Thanks for posting Iceberg.  That is very interesting.

[Iceberg]

Ice Hole

That's the one..

There was another one but I couldn't find the one I read a few years ago., It may have been in a magazine, I don't remember.
 There is also a good story in an old readers digest about the truckers driving to Alaska on the Ice Highway. But when I cleaned house last summer I got rid of all my box's of stuff that I didn't know why I was keeping in the first place and all of my reader digest's were in one of those box's.

[GRIZ]

I learned about the wave under the ice thing over 25 yrs ago while plowing snow off my minnow ponds so it's not news to me. For others it probably is.

What I'm getting at is I don't want the politicians making up any new laws. We have enough the way it is. If they do, have it simply stated that it's illegal in MN to be a freakin Idiot.

That way one warden might give em an idiot ticket at 30mph an another wouldn't hand one out at 50mph. The conditions would dictate when a ticket is handed out, not some decision made by people in st.paul.

I actually believe most people have some common sense. The problem arises when they fail to use it. I don't think a speed limit would help people use any common sense.

[Ice_Hole]

What I'm getting at is I don't want the politicians making up any new laws.

Well put GRIZ.  I totally agree.

...  have it simply stated that it's illegal in MN to be a freakin Idiot.

If they passed that, then there would not be any politicians left!   :o

[Bufflehead]

Quote
" Speed Limit on the Ice?"
-----------------------------

 Depends on the beverage...

 from Kool-Aid SLOW

 To Crown Royal THE SPEED OF LIGHT LOL