Here's a tid bit for you(Shake My Head)

[Bufflehead]

Ok, did you know, if you are ice fishing on a lake and using your snowmobile"""and"''' a Grant-n-aid snowmobile trail crosses the lake'''and''' you ride down ANY marked portion of the trail on the lake to get to your fishing spot. You will need a $15.00 per year state trail sticker.

But

 If your doing all of the above and riding your ATV, driving your truck, a bus, a 747, Etc you don't need a trail sticker.

 So much for common sense legislation

 Sorry I disagree with this, , many fisherman NEVER trail ride and use the snowmobile just for ice fishing.

 Also, this is a officers discreation thing. What one officer allows, the other may not

[DaveO]

yea I did know that and its very sad,,,,,,there is a couple lakes like that,,,,LOW is one.

I wonder when they will come up with some sort of a stamp you have to buy for sledding on a lake.

Whats next? crapie stamp? or mabie a air stamp or permit,,,If you breath the air outside of citie limets,,,you will need a air permit.

[schwinger]

I agree that is stupid bufflehead (I love your screen signature by the way), but as far as purchasing stamps for different activities I really don't mind. As long as the money for the stamp goes to make that particular activity possible and doesn't get thrown in some general fund somewhere. Most years I buy a duck stamp, pheasant stamp and trout stamp but I usually only go pheasant hunting. I figure as long as the money goes to keep the others around its money well spent.

Also it seems alot of things are up to an officers discretion and that is why it is best to just cooperate and be nice to them. I have gotten away with many warnings in my day for minor offenses, i.e. not wearing a seatbelt or speeding, just by treating the officer with some respect.

[Dr.Bob]

As far as I am concerned any law enforcement officer deserves my respect until proven otherwise. :)

If one decides to be a jerk then they deserve to be treated as one.  Otherwise I treat them well.

The trail sticker issue is bs though.............it is a dumb law indeed.

[blazer]

The trail sticker was the end of the line for me when it comes to a big snowmobile group in MN that was lobbying for it.  I was a member for a number of years until they got behind the trail pass thing.  Don't get me wrong, I have no problem paying for a use sticker in state that my sleds are not registered in, but to have to pay for one where you live is a little B.S. to me.  I know that the intention of this pass is to help fund clubs trail maitenance, which is a good thing and I do always donate money to the local clubs when I ride in MN, but to force me to buy a pass, it was the last straw.

When I crunched the numbers, I found it to be cheaper to register in Wisconsin and then buy the trail sticker for MN.  I do most of riding in Wisconsin so now I don't have to buy a trail sticker there.

[Bufflehead]

Public waters is just that "Public"

 and to charge only one type of vehicle to ride on a section of lake and not any other is just not right.

 It's singling you out, just because you prefer to ride a snowmobile while fishing and not some other type of transportation.

 I think this needs to be changed

 On another note..what does the general snowmobile Lic money pay for, if not trail maitance or club support?

 Sounds like a person is getting charged twice for only one benefit

 Think about it, it's like having a fishing lic. and then having to have a water permit to go fishing

[snowangel]

I'll try to answer your question.

License registration money goes to the DNR for maintenance of MN State and Grant-in-Aid snowmobile trails.

For many years, many snowmobile clubs, like the Ely Igloos, have been grooming additional area trails... like the various lake trails to the Chainsaw Sisters (there is more than one way to ride) and the Railroad Grade from Ely to Fall Lake.  The Igloos has been grooming these trails, along with all the connecting portages from Ely to Lake Vermilion.  All this grooming was at the expense of the clubs.  We would have fundraiser, raffles, and started charitable gambling with pulltabs at the GEL, Portage Bar, Cranberrys and Silver Rapids to help the club buy groomers and drags.  Club volunteers are also the ones who get out there before the snowmobile season starts to brush all these trails and clear them of any downfalls.

The $15 from the trail permit goes to clubs to help with this added grooming which snowmobiles, and I must admit ATVs use, to get to their fishing spots. 

Maybe ATVs should also be required to have the permit if they are riding the groomed portages to get to the lakes.  Usually trucks and cars will get onto the lakes at the public landings, so they would not need the permit.

[Bufflehead]

Quote
"Maybe ATVs should also be required to have the permit if they are riding the groomed portages to get to the lakes. "
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 Snow Angel, where not talking about riding a portage(Land) to a lake

 We are talking about people who enter the lake from a public landing or their private place of residents and NEVER leave the lake. They ride only the lake, most of the time for fishing.

 Look at Burntside, I road it this weekend fishing. I bet you rode it too.

 VanVac bay was like a freeway of cars and trucks. infact the marked trail was nothing more than a road for auto traffic. Nothing groomed...and it cost myself $32.00 to ride our sleds 2 miles from the landing to dollar island.

 Sorry, I disagree with charging people for a trail sticker to ONLY ride on the lake, when all other traffic pays NOTHING!

 

[snowangel]

I'm not sure on this, but I have sent an email to Rep. Dill asking about this.  I will also ask club members tomorrow evening at our Ely Igloo meeting.

[Bufflehead]

Good, let me know what you find out

Thanks, Chuck..AKA Bufflehead

[snowangel]

Non-snowmobile club members don't realize how much time volunteers put in to maintain the trails, and the cost to clubs. This was one of the main reasons to have the trail permit. A majority of snowmobile owners buy their sleds and register them. They don't join clubs and don't volunteer their time.

As for the lake staked trails. Our club has to buy those 2" X 2" stakes, buy the reflective material (which is not cheap), buy the signs, use our own sleds and equipment to put them all out, only to have someone in a car or truck mow them down when they are on the lake ice fishing.

In addition, speaking for the Ely Igloo Snowmobile Club, we have had to buy our groomers and drags. We own three Bombardiars - 2 160BR Tractors and 1 180BR Tractor and several drags for grooming the Tomahawk Trail; 2 Ski Doo Skandics and drags for grooming the portages between all the lake trails; and a small storage garage for all the stakes and signs. We pay rent to house and maintain the groomers. We pay our groomer operators and mechanic $12/hr. whereas the DNR operators get $45/hr. We have finally gotten our debt down to less than $60,000.

I did ask our State Rep. David Dill about the snowmobiles use for fishing and not riding the groomed trails, but following the staked lake trails. This is what he said:

Quote:
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The way it has been explained to me is that a marked groomer trail on the lake that is a part of the designated GIA trail system requires a sticker. Thus far I have received no complaints regarding citations issued to fisherman. I haven't heard of any enforcement on this issue. This is a gray area which would be very difficult to define. - State Rep. David Dill

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My suggestion is to get this gray area better defined by contacting your State Rep.

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***Let it snow!***

Support the Sport - Join a Club!!!

[Bufflehead]

Thanks for your response

 Me and my son both did trail clearing for the Greenway club this year. I also have served a elected position with a club in the past.

 If it is, like it was in the past. I can't justify the way funds are being spent. In the past, the clubs have spent as much of their allotted money's as possible each year. To make sure they get as much new funding as they can the next year. In a dry year as we are having now. I believe the allotted money's should be banked and saved for when a heavy snow year  does come but instead, they find ways to get rid of each years funds...so they collect the max. the next year

 This is not limited to snowmobiling/trail maitance..this spending habit is used in many other state funded programs.

 In my mind it is a waste of tax payer dollars

 Still, clubs do alot great things. Many people Volunteer many, many hours to a great sport.

 I just feel somethings need to be changed on how funds are spent and to make sure those who benifit very little to none aren't paying the way of others.

 Take Care, Chuck  AKA Bufflehead

 

[snowangel]

There is a big funding change to take place next year.  Club will be paid X amount of money per mile of trail they groom.  The amount per mile varies on the amount of snow days the area gets.  The old way of funding was based on miles and hours of grooming time.

Just came from our snowmobile club meeting.  Yes, our club got our alloted amount of money for grooming this year, but our main trail, the Tomahawk has not had adequate snow for grooming.  According to what you say, that money should be saved for next year.

Well, because clubs use the GIA money for grooming, we have to come up with money to repair our groomers.  This is very difficult to do.  As a result, our three Bombardiars have not received the needed maintenance repairs.  This year, because of lack of snow and not being able to groom as much, we will be able to use some of that money to make the $14,000 in needed repairs.  That's on top of $6,000 of repairs already made.

Snowmobile trail grooming is a very frustrating business.  It was a lot easier when the IRRRB did the grooming of the GIA trails.