moving the deer season out of rut

[dakids]

Augie I think that I might be wrong on the buck tag costing more, But I hate the idea of not being able to shoot a buck if the opertunity presented itself.  The lottery system to me seems unfair.

[dakids]

Deadeye wrote
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I think you may be a little hard on your fellow hunters.  There are a lot of hunters that for age (young or old), health problems or other reasons cannot go miles off the road to hunt.  I don't think that makes them "lazy hunters" as you frequently state. 
Just who are these people who are complaining about lack of big bucks?  I doubt it's the hunters you describe.  I think we need to know the type of hunter that has this concern before we condem all hunters.   
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I think that you also are right. I have been a little hard on some hunters.
If the season is moved farther back out of the rut, when it is colder, it would be harder on the young and old.

[deadeye]

The good news is deer hunting attracts a very wide demagraphic.  The hunters come from all backgrounds and experience. They employ many different hunting methods. Then you got bow, crossbow, rifle, shotgun, and muzzle loaders.  You got your early seasons, party hunting etc.  Blend that all together with trying to manage the deer herd, and it's a no win, thankless job to try and make everyone happy.     
The bad new is it is impossible to cater the seasons to each group of hunters.

Not that there arn't somethings I wouldn't change but I think the way it is now everyone can find his or her niche and go with it. 

[dakids]

Well said deadeye.  I agree 100%. 

[Joe@deerhunters]

Wow, I don't know where to begin on this discussion. Most of the comments on this topic have merit.  So I will be the one to point out this fact about Minnesota.  It is big, diverse in both habitat and hunter types. 

500,000 hunters take to the woods each year deer hunting.  How many of those do you think really care about what goes on outside of their little world?  So that leaves the true dedicated deer hunting crowd of I would estimate 100,000.

Furthermore The northwoods are not the same as the ag lands. The southeast in not the same as the Northwest.  Through my job with the Minnesota Deer Hunters I quickly learned their is no perfect plan that will please the whole state. And problems you perceive in your area are not an issue in another region. 

I live and hunt in the northwoods.  There is no shortage of big bucks.  My shed hunting friends prove it every spring.  So from my perspective all of this talk about restrictions, changing seasons etc is meaningless.  On that note I understand how it could be an issue in areas with less big woods and greater hunter diversity.  When all is said and done I think managing for bigger bucks in the regions where it is an issue will come down to private landowners joining together.  I think legislating laws for increase buck size are unlikley to happen when very few of the 1/2 million deer hunters would be interested.  If you think about times are changing and more and more folks talk about letting little bucks walk.  Youth have far more opportunity to shoot any deer then thirty years ago.  I suspect they will begin to hold out for a bigger buck quicker then some stopped shooting basket racks.

my two cents

Joe

[Faceman]

Faceman,
   I am not bashing you in anyway here OK. Just a question for you. If you are a meat hunter, and you hunt purely for the meat, why don't you go to an area that allows the taking of 5 antlerless deer and shoot till your freezer is full? Mn has numerous areas that allow you to take extra antlerless deer. I go to the Blackhills myself, every year, and you can buy up to five doe tags to fill with your smokepole. They are like rats.  Our bunch took close to 40 does in about a 2 week period. Most of us had 2-4 tags and only one tag was not filled. $80 for a double tag. Pile your buddies in a truck and it is a pretty cheap out of state hunt and you can fill your freezer while enjoying the new scenery. All on public ground.
   Another regulation I would like to see change is how the antlerless tag works. If you put in for antlerless and draw then you should be required to shoot an antlerless deer. This would be a way to ease people into the earn a buck. Man I could go on forever on this issue!

Sorry it took so long to get back to this, I have been out of town.
I do hunt in the 5 deer area. I only have 20 measely acres to hunt and some years is great hunting and some years poor hunting. Last year was a poor year, we only got 2 deer for 5 hunters. When it is a slow year we get what we can and hope for better. I did see a monster buck last year but did not see him anymore after that. I did shoot a six pointer and he tasted great. Could he have gotten bigger? Maybe. The neighbors around us own hundreds of acres and they show up in groups of 10 and drive the crap out of the land and shoot anything that moves. That makes it tough for us small property owners to do any quality control. And like I said before I am not a trophey hunter. Antlers are a bonus. And for me I agree with several others on here that it is all about the kids. My oldest got his first hunt last season. I told him no shooting little ones but anything else is game. He seen the big buck and the one I shot and that was all he seen. He did not get any. If he shoots a doe or fork that is great. I also would not want him to get a big buck for his first one. Then any buck after that could be very dissapointing. Anyway on good years I am more selective about what I shoot but when the neighbors dont care what else can I do. Sorry for the rambling. I dont see any real solution.

[Spinach]

I finally have a few minutes to post my opionion on this matter.

Like i said in an earlier post, I agree with a lot of what Dakids posted in an earlier post, I'm referring to the post about hunting harder for bigger bucks and "lazy" hunters.

Anyways, For the most part i do agree wth this line of thinking, "lazy" hunters was definitely a poor choice of words, but i agree with the thought. keeping in mind that a large percentage of todays hunters are just not capable of hunting twice as hard, scouting, crossing a swamp etc.... They have no choice but to setup in a easy convenient area or stand. i'm sure Dakids comment was not directed towards the percentage that have no choice.

Hunting twice as hard, going deeper into the woods and scouting for bigger bucks is definitely not a for sure way to bag a big buck every season, but it sure will increase your odds of getting closer to a trophy bucks bedroom.

Moving the season up or back won't do much either, sure there will be times when a later season will get us closer to prime rut, but the first Saturday of November is generally a good start for most years. I definitely believe that a week later in the season would increase the overall quota for all hunters, meaning more deer would be moving in the colder weather, crops are generally out by the 2nd weekend of Nov and food sources will pressure deer to quickly change to winter habits.

I hunt in the Metro area every year and the past 7-8 years the weather has played a big part in the poorer hunting, I scout our property as much as possible, check for activity and can pretty much predict which stands will work better than the others. the main thing that I have noticed in this period is the deer are still not in full winter mode in our area, the crops have been up which keeps them out of the main woods for the most part.

With that being said, i would still choose to keep the season the same, but if it had to change one way or the other, i like pushing it back 1 week the best.

I think Joe from Deer Hunters nailed it in his post....... The bigger bucks are out there, everyone sees them during the off season, on the roads, sheds, pictures and other sources, so its not a lack of big deer, we just have to change our habits and teach people to manage there deer herd more responsibly. talking to your neighbors may not work as fast as we would like it to, but we have to keep trying to spread the word.

The big deer are there, thats not the issue, we just have to find them and put ourselves in the best place to cross paths with them.

There are so many reasons, I could go on and on. Foodplots are getting very popular in recent years, this is another reason why your herd may have have moved from your property and people blame a lack of deer or a lack of bigger bucks, these deer have just moved and changed patterns is all it is.

Earn a buck or paying more money for a buck license is not the answer here. I'm not totally against the earn a buck program, but the DNR would have to use different quotas and options in each part of the state. I know Wisconsin does this and each permit area changes from year to year, I wouldn't mind something like that if they had enough accurate data to get it right.

I still think the easiest way to grow bigger bucks is to teach our kids and friends to let the smaller healthy bucks go.

[Faceman]

Well said Pat.

[iowabowhunter]

I think the season is perfect where it is now, too, in IA.  What are the dates in MN?  Ours already starts a few weeks before the rut.

[DaveO]

For you trophey hunters if we shoot all the middle age deers how can they grow up to be big enough for your wall?

What is wrong with shooting yunger deer? there is allot of people that meat hunt and will let older deer go. keep them around for breeding.

And also mother nature will take out the week ones first anyhow meaning if we have a deep or hard winter the yungs ones will feed the yotes and wolf's or just not get enough to eat and die.

I dont think any less of people that hunt for the rack nore for the people that just hunt for the meat. I do have something against the people that hunt and dont eat the meat and I allso have something against the people that want to regulate our hunting more than it needs to be..

Its deer hunting not al law office we dont need to add more regulations like what size deer we can shoot or earn a buck or what ever.

Heck theres people out there that dont know what there shooting at now..


Ok Im ready to get my but yelled at now,,,,

[thunderpout]

DaveO... Ya do bring up a good point about takin the monster deer out of the genepool....If one was reeaaly interested in improving the herd, those would be the last deer youd wanna take out of the pool, eh?  but try tellin a deer hunter he cant take down Mongo! That has allways came up in my thoughts when hearing people talking QDM.... I guess there really is no single way to really improve things or to make everyone happy... the new regs are interesting... seems someone is "trying" to simplify things a bit.....