Getting neighbors to buck manage

[Big E]

We have a few neighbors that say they buck manage and some that say they can't afford to let deer go. Ok I can understand you need the meat but there is no shortage of deer where we are. This year you can shoot 7 deer. You are able to use a rifle 2 days in October this year. The other guys say they buck manage but shot 5 spikes last year. They said that they were deformed and really small and never would develop into a giant. You can not possibly know what potential a deer will have until it's 2 1/2 or 3 1/2. That is the dumbest idea that people talk about in my book. The University of Michigan did a 15 year long study on this. They had 2 massive chunks of land fenced in. The one they culled bucks and the other one they didn't. The result was nothing. There was no difference in the size of deer. If they want bigger bucks then let them go! The biggest thing in Rack development is AGE then FOOD and then GENES in that order.
 So does anyone have any ideas or expierience getting people like this to understand and to let deer walk. I understand if it's a kid and has never shot a buck before and they shoot a spike or a guy that would be over joyed with a 2 1/2 yr old 8pt. That's awesome and I have bucks on the wall that most would pass on but it was a trophy to me. I even have a 5pt on my wall. (First buck with a bow) but when you've shot numerous bucks and can shoot 7 deer why shoot a 1 1/2 yr old buck? Please any ideas on how to approach them once again?

[Stensethfan]

If I was you and the people seem approachable on your ideas I would print out the University of Michigan research and give it to them to read.  All they have to realize is that after even 1-2 years of not killing the young ones you will see results.  Also based on what you have said being in an intensive and early doe permit area there should be plenty of meat with no horns for them to eat if beef is cutting into their pockets too much.  I just cannot get over the feeling of taking a small buck for meat and giving up the my tag and opportunity to kill Mr. Big when he walks by.

[Auggie]

Stensethfan, I agree with your statement completely.

   Big E. All I have to say is good luck. It is a tough sell. I agree with almost everything you said. The only thing you have wrong is the order of importance on rack development. The reason I say this is from raising captive whitetail. Genetics is the number one issue on monster racks. All the feed and age in the world will not give you a big rack if they do not possess the genes. So the order is genetics, age, and feed.
   As for spikes, you are correct. I have had several develop into quite nice deer. A spike could result from being a late fawn, maybe the less dominant fawn out of twins or triplets, or a host of other reasons.
   Another factor that many people may not realize plays as big a factor is deer density. I have had 2 and 3 year old bucks that were not impressive at all, when running with other bucks close to them in year class. Until they were separated and allowed to run with a few does as the dominant breeder buck. They then exploded. So if you have tons of deer on your land it will only carry so many very top end quality bucks. That is a part of the study they may not have mentioned. Just some food for thought. And as I said good luck with your neighbors. If we could only get people to understand with a little sacrifice for a few years they could have their cake and eat it too.

[HD]

I would have to agree with what Auggie said!  ..... 

Deer management is what I do on our farm, (25 years now) and it does go along way if you put the time and effort in.

[Big E]

Thank you guys for the replies and keep them coming. I know the genes have a lot to do with it but didn't know it was the number one reason. Is it as big of an issue with 3 1/2 year old buck? Not to many bucks in our area get beyond that point because normally by then they are a trophy to one of us. I guess I just can't see culling a buck without complete control of the herd like high fence is worth it. The way I see it there might be a 12 yr old boy or girl or older person hunting across the property line that would put it on the wall and remember that hunt for the rest of their lives. So if I shoot it because I don't think it's got the potential I want they have no chance. Oh and besides the more bucks in the area means a much more active and intense rut which everyone loves! Again thank you guys I'm always wanting to learn more on this subject and don't worry I'm easy going and will not get offended if you think I am wrong on a issue.

[Cody Gruchow]

well we have tryed with our neighboors but some of them had some interesting words for us. and the other thought it was a good idea but refused to act on it. but i understand where there coming from on this though, because they hunt for meat not horns. im the same way but if i can avoid shooting a younger buck i most definitly will.

[Auggie]

Big E. you kinda lost me with your last post. I have had 3.5 year olds differ close to 50 inches. I am not sure what you are asking. Without very large tracts or enclosed tracts it is hard to cull deer for management other than numbers. You can grow some good deer if you build your property correctly and keep them from straying to far. You may have to let them walk for a few years. All of them.
  Yes some will stray and the neighbors will get a few before they are what you consider ready, but if you let them walk it is one more chance he got. You just have to make a decision you can live with and forget about everyone else if they are not on board.

[Cody Gruchow]

thats the way we have had to do it. its more of an experiment but it seems to be working slowly

[NDGUY]

I agere with all said, hang in there you may have to just set a standard for your self and present them with literature to support QDM.... maybe they (QDMA) has some lit. you could get?? Good luck!!

[deadeye]

Big E,
We are experiencing exactally what you are going through.  We started our form of QDM (no written rules or punishment, (we shoot does and nice 8 pts or better, but no baskests) on just our property about 6 years ago.  Today there are probably 10 property ownes in the area following some form of QDM. (I use the term QDM to describe a general plan and do not want to get into an agument over what is Quality.)  Here is what I found to carry the most clout in convincing neighboring propery owners into letting the little bucks go.  For the past 4 years I make sure to stop by and show them either the deer (nothing like a big buck a guy can put his hands on) or pictures of big deer we have taken.  A couple years ago I stopped by one group (it was a good year and we had several very nice bucks) to show them the deer.  One guy commented "you guys always get those big ones".  Obvioulsy he remembered the previous years pictures.  I simply said "that's because we don't shoot those" while I pointed towards two 1.5 year old bucks hanging on their meat pole.  I have never ask anyone to practice QDM, I simply show them our results and let them make up there own minds. 

[Big E]

Holy crap 50 inches! I get the picture now Auggie. That is a huge difference. Thank you. Yeah we've been buck managing for the last 4 years and we've had a couple of accidents with shooting 1 1/2 year olds But very few maybe only 2 or 3. We have seen tremendous results with it already. We use to think a 6 pt was the cats meow and a spike was a good buck. Now with food plots we rarely ever see spikes all of the deer are at least forks, sixers and even have a lot of 8pts in their first years. Deadeye I was thinking of bringing over some pics of past deer and trail camera pics from this year. I have some nice 3 1/2 yr olds and a few 2 1/2. If they would go one year with letting the little guys go they would see a difference. This would be the year to do it too with the early doe season. You can get a lot of meat in the freezer this year. A 2 1/2 year old would be a trophy for most of the people in our area. Then after they shoot one of them they can hold off for a even bigger bucks. I'll post some pics I got of this year and see if it would convince you guys if you were them.

[Big E]

[Big E]

Sorry viking2233 I forgot your big one! We had it scored 3 1/8 BC

[Viking]

Just for the record, the spikes were so small I thought it was a doe.  Damn you Big E 

[GRIZ]

It's hard unless the pieces of property are large ones. If everyone owns 10-40 acres it's nearly impossible.

[Big E]

If the 4 other neighbors do it we would have over 700acres of buck managed land. We all own good chunks of land. We only have 80 acres and we are shooting the biggest bucks in our area. If they would start to buck manage it would be a heck of a lot better. We could be shooting 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 year old deer. True trophies.