Mystery trees

[LPS]

I had mentioned some ornamental trees in our grove.  The first two picks are the actually nice small tree bush that we call Chinese Lilacs and I am sure that is not what they are.  Would like to know what they are.   The second two picks are a tree/bush that we don't hardly have any of but I wonder what it is too.  Buckthorn?

[Dotch]

OK, from what I can see, the top two pics are American elder or more commonly known around here as elderberry. The bottom two are from all appearances European buckthorn. When we first bought the place here there was a large thicket of it in the backyard. I thought it was kinda neat at first because it had a lot of dark colored berries on it the birds liked. Once I figured out what it was it wasn't so neat anymore. Looking at an old pamphlet, Wedge Nursery in Albert Lea had sold it once upon a time as an ornamental. They also sold boxelder trees as if anyone actually needed to buy them! Buckthorn isn't very deep rooted so the sheep were a big help, chewing off any new buckthorn that showed up after I'd yanked it out with the tractor. All this happened before it was determined that it was the overwintering host for soybean aphids. The aphids migrate to buckthorn in the fall and lay their eggs on the bud bracts. 

[LPS]

I was hoping you would look at these Dotch.  We like the elderberry bushes.  We trim them up and they are real nice looking trees.  They only last so many years but they do have new ones sprouting out of them yearly.  And yes the birds eat a lot of the berries.
Like I said I don't think we have many of the buckthorn but will look more now.  There is a push here to eliminate or at least control it.  I just read some in the paper about it recently.  I will bring a branch to the DNR guys today to verify it.  Thanks Dotch.

[LPS]

The elderberry has real nice white flowers in clumps and they turn into red berries.  We don't think we have seen them get purple.  Maybe the birds eat them before they get dark colored?

[Dotch]

By all means take them to the DNR for a positive ID. I hesitate to say with 100% certainty based on a couple pictures but betting that's what it is. The alternating venation on the leaves in your picture is very typical. Berries are in the right spot. One other giveaway characteristic of buckthorn is the leaves will stay green and on the tree long after the other trees have dropped theirs.

  https://extension.umn.edu/identify-invasive-species/common-buckthorn 

That is typical of elderberries to die back and resurrect themselves.There's a bunch growing in the road ditch by our pasture fence. I noticed the red berries in your 2nd pic too & don't recall seeing them in that color stage.  Maybe because I don't pay much attention to them. Some people make wine out of the ripe berries. They probably pay more attention than I do. 

[LPS]

The berries are bigger at times too.  Thanks Dotch.  I will get rid of the buckthorn and keep an eye out for more of them.  It will end up in the burn pile. 

[LPS]

Stopped at the DNR place this morning.  They are very helpful with tree stuff.  You are absolutely right Dotch.  It is Elderberry so that is good to have.  The Buckthorn is the bad type so they said I should pull that.  I see there is about 4 plants near the one.  Maybe I can pull it with my winch on the wheeler or the one I made on my wood splitter.  Otherwise I will get the heavy equipment out.  (The WD)  They said there is a good type of Buckthorn too but this isn't it.  Thanks again Dotch.

[Steve-o]

I'd be pleased to learn the redeeming qualities of "good" buckthorn. 

[fishwidow]

Me too. And how do you tell the difference between good buckthorn and bad. buckthorn?

[Dotch]

No sweat Barry. Glad you were able to figure out what it was. The "good" buckthorn they were talking about might've been this native species, alder-leaved or alderleaf buckthorn. There is also a lanceleaf buckthorn in surrounding states that may be present in places like SE MN. It's across the river in SW WI. 

  https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/shrub/alder-leaved-buckthorn 

[LPS]

Yup that's it.  She said the native buckthorn has fruit that birds like and is not invasive like the European buckthorn.  AND she also gave me that website to look things up too.

[LPS]

Now I hope it pulls out easily.  SO Buddy and me better go get a jug of hydraulic oil cuz my cylinders on the loader leak when sitting awhile. 

[snow1]

Interesting thread guyz,thanx for sharing as I to dealt with the dreaded buckthorn,last fall I let it be as it stayed green into november and deer were browing on it,come spring I  killed it off with "kills all" then took hedge trimmer to it,done deal,I suppose more will sprout but my critters will help keep it in check,I hope.

[Fawkinnae]

Yeah very interesting. I did not realize there is a native buckthorn.

[LPS]

AND I read that there is 2 - 3 seeds in every berry.  SO every berry that a bird or deer eats and then goes and poops somewhere there may be 2 or 3 new Buckthorns.  That is what makes getting rid of them early is part of the program.