QDM

[HD]

I would like to know how many of you practice quality deer management.

I know this is a touchy subject for some folks.

I ain't gonna jump on ya or preach to ya, because that ain't what this is about.

I just want to know how you manage your hunting areas.

Is there a special way that you help the deer herd survive?
Do you install food plots?
Do you check on the progress of the herd through out the year?
Do you manage your preditors?
Do you have trail camera's out all year long?

I have managed our farm for over 25 years, we used to shoot what ever we saw.
I set a side acres just for food plots.
In the last 10 years, I have mainly just harvested does, and deer that the genetics just wasn't quite there.
This management resulted in my daughter harvesting her very first buck, that scored in the mid 130's, not a massive buck, but it's still going on the wall!
The only reason I decided to manage the deer herd was because of my kids and their friends,
and I wanted them to be able to harvest a quality deer.



Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

your right hunter this is a touchy subject for some people.

i think mainly alot of hunters from around the state shoot the first thing they see, just for the fact that they might not see another deer for the rest of the season, or some people dont think that they land is capable of producing big bucks. my uncles and i got into a big arguement for how to go about QDM we started 4 years ago, so we split the land into 4 peices i ended up getting the swamp and the low land with a thick patch of woods connected to the swamp, so what i did was cleared 2 acres in the middle of the the trees and planted a food plot, so the deer wouldnt have to expose themselves until they got to the food plot. my plan was to shoot 2 does a year and any ugly bucks, the rest i would let walk for a couple years. my uncles and i had a bet on who ever produced the biggest buck thats the technique we would use  for the rest of the farm. now i didnt shoot the biggest buck but the biggest taken out of there came from my area 2 years ago. i couldnt make it out there past opening weekend, and my uncle shot it out of my stand but he said he had shot it out of his but i got him on my trail cameras draging it out...lol i use trail cameras year round and i  do try my best to count the herd but deer come and go, as for predators i shoot them when i see them otherwise i really dont have much time to do anything with them.

[deadeye]

This is a favorite topic for me because I have seen what some deer management can do in a short time.  The great thing about it is you can do you own thing, make you own rules and still see the results.  About 4 years ago we implemented our version of QDM.  It is quite lax and nobody gets fined if a mistake is made.  We basically shoot does and 8pt or better bucks.  This does not include basket racks.   The old hunters and new guys can shoot whatever (nobody will stop a kid from shooting his first buck).  The results were evident within two years.  We now harvest and see more big bucks that we did in the past.  (This year I shot one 8pt and let 3 others go.  I also saw a really big one but it was late, too far and windy).  
We started food plots about the same time and it is a blast to watch the deer pound the plots.  I usually put out a trail camera in late summer an up to gun season just to see what's there.  It's really fun to hunt a specific deer that you have previously got on film.   Yesterday I spent the afternoon walking the hunting land looking for clues of how the deer managed over winter.  Things looked pretty good.  I didn't find any dead deer.  They browzed some areas pretty hard.  The deer looked to be in pretty good shape.  I saw 25 deer between 2 and 7 pm.  Just like normal, they were really spooky and you couldn't get very close.    

[Cody Gruchow]

i agree it is alot of fun to get a buck on cam and then hunt that deer, its more of a one on one than a one on whatever shooter buck walks by my stand lol

[HD]

You hit on the main reason I started doing it deadeye. I already have my trophies on the wall, now it's time for my kids, and their kids, and so on.

Thanks for the post! 

Anybody else?



Hunter

[Don Stenseth]

Just a question, How much land do you feel you need to practice QDM. If you have a small piece of property is'nt it almost imposible to practice QDM if your neighbors don't. Don't get me wrong, I believe in QDM  but I feel that sometimes it is hard to do unless you have neighbors that feel the same way that you do.

[HD]

That's a great question Don, and I hear this one alot.

My personal opinon is that you do not need a large chunk of land. If you have neigbors that don't practice, and you want to do your part. You'll need to have a better bed and breakfast then everybody else. And what I mean by that is, if you want the deer to stick around on your 20 acres, 10 acres or even 5, try to make the area enticing to the deer. Good cover areas that don't get disturbed, food plots to keep them healthy and a good water supply.

And yes, sometimes it is difficult to get people on board with QDM. That's why I posted I wasn't going to preach or jump on anyone. But, sometimes you'll be surpised if you talk to them, there are still alot of people that don't know about QDM.......yet.

And just a note, I have had more success in Minnesota, than in Wisconsin 


Hunter

[deadeye]

After seeing the results (nothing like stopping by a neighbors camp with a couple big deer and pictures of others) a number of neighboring properties have started their own QDM practices.
There still are a couple parties in the area that basically shoot everything they can.  Last year when I stopped by to show them a nice buck, they said "you guys always get big deer".  I replied "that's because we don't shoot those" [pointing to two 1.5 year old basket bucks hanging on their pole].   

[tripnchip]

  This is a hard subject for me because I feel qdm is good as long as it is kept to the concept of private land. What I mean I do not feel it is somthing that should be pushed on to those that hunt public land by requiring size limits, ageing ,or earn a buck type things. I just feel a person should be allowd to set his(her) own standards as to what he (she) wants to shoot on public land. Setting your standard is part of growing into being a good hunter. There are those that will never grow out of the shoot anything stage but for the most part I think most hunters without even realizing it set higher standards for themself.
 An example a person that hunts heavy ceadar, tagalder or brush country or even 3 to 4 year old slashes. He seldom sees a whole deer but has learned to try and judge body size by glimpses in the brush and look for at least what appears to be one heavey horn. This is all done in secounds not min. and all the time planing what little opening he will be able to put a bullet through for a clean kill because he knows one shot is all he will get. To me in his own way this hunter is practicing qdm, even if he did not count points or what ever, he did set standards that he knew he could meet in the area he was hunting.
  Don't get me wrong guys I commend you and respect you for managing your land as you want it managed. I know deadeye has put a lot of effort, time and money into his and I would imagine it is the same for the rest of you. I may be putting in my own food plot on a peice of private land this summer. So yes I do wish you the best in your venture.

[HD]

That's a good post Trip! I liked what you had to say!

Like I said in the first post, I practice it, but I ain't gonna preach it.

The whole idea behind the post is to get a little information and maybe pass a little on.

I think that some people do get hung up on it, that's why it is a touchey subject.

I feel that you should do what ever makes you happy, life is to short to have someone cram something down your throat.

Anybody else?



Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

well besides the ahoes from the wolf lake area, none of our neighbors practice QDM. our rule on all 3 places i hunt is 8 points or better and outside the ears, except new hunters and older hunters. (like trip and hunter)

[HD]

Have you been looking at my profile Cody?   



We ain't old......Just well seasoned!




Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

lol i know i beleive you 

[HD]

Does anybody else got any questions?

Again, this is just informational stuff. NO PRESSURE!


Cody, could you post that trail pic of your uncle?
I'd like to see it!


Hunter

[Don Stenseth]

Hunterdown, What criteria do you use to decide if a Buck is a shooter or not. I know on several occasions I have seen a Buck and at first look I might think that he is a shooter  and sometimes if I am lucky enough to watch him for a while his rack seems to shrink. Sometimes his head position will make the rack look larger or smaller. Now if I would have only had seconds to decide I may have made the wrong choice. What do you look for to help you decide and avoid shooting a Deer that is smaller than you first thought it was?

[deadeye]

Don Stenseth, you are absolutely correct.  Often there isn't time to do a full evaluation of the deer.  That is why we don't have a punishment (other than getting grief from others) for shooting a deer that may not be 3.5 years old.  After a while, most guys seem to let a deer go if they arn't sure if it is bib enough.  Some 2.5 year olds are sporting headgear that is well past the ears, however, it is usually very easy to spot a 1.5 year old.   

[HD]

Don, a couple posts back Cody nailed what we use as a scale, wider than the ears and at least 8 countable points.
And you are both correct in the fact that sometimes you don't have the time to evaluate a deer.
We don't penalize for choices either, accually if a kid whacks a deer we're all hooting and holler'in.
That's why patience is the hardest thing to learn or teach.
(specially when your heart is pumping out of your chest)

And this is just a matter of preference, I don't believe in the "fine" system either.
When bringing kids into the deer hunting world, I often spend more time with them in the stand then I get to hunt myself. Which is another thing that I prefer to do, is teach.

I myself, look for something better than what I got on my wall already.
(so, as the years go by, I shoot less and less bucks, waiting for a 200 class)

For doe's, for most hunters (me included) sometimes have a hard time judging a deer when she's standing alone. If there is another deer there, you can judge by body size.
When you get good at it, you can determine a doe by the shape of her head. The lenght of her nose. Younger deer have shorter snouts.

(I threw the doe's in there, cause maybe someone would want to know.)

I hope this answered your question. (sometimes I get a little long winded)


Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

there are certain circumstances (spelling i dont know) like the big deer im after that i have posted the pic's of is a 7 point, the eighth one is kind of small and you cant fit a ring around it so to me it dont count. i will shoot these if i for sure know hes a mature deer, and you can tell by looking at them and observing  there face there necks during the rut, body mass, how they present themselves to other bucks and so on. hunter i will look for the pic i sent them to him last year and now they are framed and hanging on the deer camp wall lol. im sure i got them around here somewere.  hunter im sure everyone wants to know how to pick out a mature doe, i for one am just as happy shooting a doe as i am a buck, but unless i can tell if she weigh's alot or is to old i will wait until the end of the season to harvest one. my grandpa hunts for food and he always tells everyone at camp to shoot a doe first for the meat then you can hunt the bucks.

[HD]

Cody, I do have one trick I use to size up a doe.

(it's a secret)

I put out a full body decoy that's about the size of a yearling. Ya use a fawn bleet, and usually a doe will come in cause her motherly instinks or just curious.
If your on a good trail, you don't need the call.
(you get bucks to come in sometimes too)

If she's bigger than the decoy, it's go time.
(the kids think this is really cool)

But don't tell no one, I wouldn't want it to get around.......



Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

lol that is a good trick, yeah quick dont tell anyone lol. i like shooting does when we first started out our QDM we went nuts on the does, i think between 5 of us we shot 8 does. if you dont mind me asking what do you try to keep your buck to doe ratio?

[HD]

This question ties into a question from the original post. The use of trail cam's and monitoring herd numbers.
If you have a small herd, you might wanna consider holding off for awhile.
Because you don't want to take to many, not enough doe's, the bucks will travel else where.

Since you asked me personally what we keep ours to, I'll tell ya, with a explaination.
We try to stay around 4 to 5 doe's to 1 buck.
But, the reason we keep so many, is that we have guided hunts for youths, and it gives them a better opertunity to harvest a deer.

Now, some QDM people would say, that's to many.
They recommend 2 to 3 doe's per buck.
I feel that number is to low, just because of the fore mentioned reason.

It's all a matter of your preference, If you have enough habitat to support, and you like to see the deer then it's your choice.


Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

well on our land before we started QDM it was i suppose in the range of 7 does to one buck, but that one buck always happened to be a big mature one. now we want it at 3 does to one buck. like i have said before it is very difficult to know an exact number of deer that are in your herd unless they are in a fenced area, because deer are always coming and going, 4 to 5 isnt a bad number either, i like watching deer even if they arent shooters they are just really interesting to watch. and its even better when you are taking a kid out because some of them who are questioning the whole thing and dont see a deer and they automatically think it will always be that way i think its better for them to see a deer and get really excited and keep wanting to go.

[deadeye]

How the heck do you guys calculate the buck/doe ratio?  You can get an idea of how many does are around but bucks just don't line up to be counted.  It's my guess that for every deer you see there are another 10 unseen. 

[HD]

Yep, DE you are right, it is hard to calculate the ratio.

That's why I brought up the trail cam's, I have 4 to 6 cam's out at any given time.
And, you just spend alot of time in the woods. (like Don)

And still, you ain't gonna get them all on camera, cause they travel several miles to get to different areas to get what they require for living (food, bedding, water)

I look at the photo's (try to decifer what deer are the same deer, by markings) and take an average, and that's what I use.


Hunter

[HD]

Now I would like to know..........How many of you are accually members of QDM?

No, this isn't a membership drive, it's just a question.
And no, I'm not banging on the QDM organization.

You can practice in your own way (remember I told ya, I wasn't gonna preach or jump on ya)
Like I said before, this is just for information.

(I can see the eyebrows going up already)

And here is my honest answer from, well, me.
I was a member for 6 years, I got some good information from some of the magazines and speakers.
But, I soon found that you can get more information on the web, and from forums such as this one.
Every meeting I went to, seemed like it was out to make money, and well, I'm poor.
Some of the "rules" I wasn't happy about either, such as the "fine" system.
So, I manage our deer the way we want, to get the results we want.

This is just me and my opinion, what say you?


Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

went to one meeting and i didnt like it and everyone has different rules, and shouldnt be fined because you have different thoughts on the way you manage your herd. good question hunter

[HD]

Thanks Cody for you honesty!


Anybody else?


Hunter

[tripnchip]

Nope not a member and couldn't be no matter how much land I owned. I'l leave it at that.

[deadeye]

I may have been a member (I think it came with some raffle tickets) in the past.  I am not at this time.  I had a number of conversations with QDM people.  I haven't looked into forming one for our area simply because I don't want to be an enforcer.  We and our neighbors simple talk about what we do on our property.  The results speak for themselves.

[HD]

See, now that's cool.......What did Michael Waddell say?   
OOOHHHH, YA....The proofs in the pudd'in!

It's all about effert or effort, (you know what I mean)
What you put into it, ya get out!



Hunter