does using a gun mean you can take any shot?

[mathews4ever]

NO!!!!!!!!!


I help not 1 but 2 absolute morons this weekend track deer that they didn't even know what angle the deer was standing when they shot it. The first guy shot an absolute monster they had been watching all summer. He didn't remember where it was standing when he shot or the angle it was standing at. Then the best part is that he took up on the blood trail instantly. Needless to say we didn't find that one, even after 4 hours of tracking. Myself and another seasoned tracker agree that the deer was pushed into the bog about 200 yards away. we tried checking the bog but it was too dangerous. I am just glad that the guy that shot the deer called up like 12 people to track the deer. that really helped

The second guy I helped was actually my uncle. 2 deer came in(he couldn't even remember if they were bucks or does) and he shot the first one severely quartering away and it dropped in its tracks. The bullet entered just barely in front of the rear honch and the bullet got stuck in the front shoulder. The other deer whipped around and ran about 15 yards and stopped(he claims). At that point he shot and the deer took off. when I asked how the deer was standing he said he couldn't remember, he just shot at the DEER not vitals. He also took off after the deer right away, jumping from its bed 75 yards away. Then he called 9 other people to track the deer. They claimed the trail went dead and quit looking. A buddy of mine and myself went out the following morning and followed the trail another 400 yards before it went dead. After the trail went dead we walked every square inch within 300 yards of last blood and found nothing. To me it looked like a muscle wound and the deer will probably be fine, but that's not the point. from the sit of the shot to last blood was every bit of a mile.

I will never be able to wrap my mind around this theory of you just have to hit a deer to kill it if you are using a gun. You still have to hit the vitals and treat the tracking job with the utmost respect, like a bowhunter would. Please urge any other people you know that hunt with a firearm to aim for the vitals and aim true. You have to keep your head in the game, because this game is life or death. I know that it make the decision easier when its not your life but it is a life nonetheless.

Happy Hunting, and try to have a happy and safe holiday season.

[JCAMERON]

AMEN! I've heard so many stories that " I just put my gun up... when i saw brown BAM!" That is no way to be hunting. I can understand where some people are coming from, old timers that never used scopes or range finders... But still with iron sights you can pick your target. The reason we hunt these animals is because we respect them (and love hunting!). Right? I would take so much more pride in knowing I didn't kill an animal than not knowing because a blood trail ran dead due to a pot shot. The kind of people that shoot like that are the kind of people that give hunting a bad name.

[Faceman]

I agree 100%. This season my 13 year old son jumped a big doe and got off 2 quick shots at her. He was pretty sure he hit her but later realized he had missed. I think buck fever and being cold. Anyway after shooting he called me over to the spot from which he never moved. When I got over to him he told me she stood broadside when he fired, he knew which way she was facing, he knew which wat she ran, and how she ran. So he stayed where he was and guided me to where she was at. I found the tracks and then he came in and we tracked it for 150 yards until it went into the neighbors feild with no blood and no signs of ever slowing down. He was majorly bummed but I was proud of him because he could recall everything that happened in those few seconds and made my job easier. I know he probably did not get the aim though because he jumped her from a bed and startled him, he has alot to learn yet. I also jumped 3 does from a bed during the week and never even put the rifle up to my shoulder because I knew I had no chance and just let them go. I have tried to teach him to take your time and aim carefully because I dont want to wound animals. I like to make a clean and fast kill for the animals sake.

[Auggie]

Whoa guys! I have seen plenty of evidence of the poor shots bow hunters take as well. I am not picking sides here cuz I hunt with both weapons. But to be fair it all comes down to how proficient one gets with said weapon and experience. Many things can factor into a poorly placed shot other than buck fever. A friend of mine once told me "they (meaning the game we hunt)have to win every time, we only need to win once". It can be as simple as a sudden twitch just before the shot is made to make it go off the mark. The game we hunt is trying to survive. And I don't care who you are, at some point in your hunting past, present, or future, you made or will make a shot you would like to have back. The two you spoke of are boneheads not because they hunt with a firearm, but because they lack the experience and knowledge it takes to make a clean kill with any weapon. Hopefully they both learned a valuable lesson from the mistakes they made and it won't happen again.

[deadeye]

mathews4ever, you make a very good point.  It is vital in recovering a wounded deer to know where it came from, where/how it was standing, how it reacted to the shot and direction and how it traveled after the shot.  These clues will help determine how and when to track the deer.   Much can be learned even if the deer eventually drops within site.  I always go over the details even if I see the deer fall.  Here are some of the things I noted from the deer I shot this year.  1. Doe laying down at 50 feet.  She was not looking at me but rather where I came from.  I shot her in the head and theres nothing more to tell.  2. Fawn walking in swamp at 228 yards fairly severe quarting away.   I held just in front of the back leg.  I heard the "ploof" and saw the deer hunch up (like a gut shot).  The bullet entered just in front of the back leg and exited just behind the front leg.  Being it was a small deer it made a couple hops and was down.  3. Doe in swamp at 120 yards quartering away.  I held at the back rib in center of body.  Again I heard the ploof and she hunched up and went on what I call the death run - head streached out in front, flat running, no jumps or hops.  Because she was running directly towards me, I didn't shoot again.  She went about 70 yards.  The bullet exited just behind the front leg.  4. Eight point buck standing broadside at 70 yards.  I held on the top of the lower third of the body just behind (actually nicked) the front leg.  The deer bucked and kicked (heart shot) and then took off.  Because the bullet disconnected the heart from the lungs, he only went 40 yards.  5. 13 point buck.  Standing broadside at 25 yards.  This is the one I should have shot for the heart but in being he was looking at me I didn't want to take too much time lining up so I just double lunged him.  He took of bounding almost straight away.  Normally I know they will drop in less than 100 yards but I couldn't just let him run away so I held on his back and the bullet went in above and to the left of his back leg traveling up and into the chest cavity.  He still went another 60-70 yards.      

[beeker]

some people can't control the "feaver"... and go blind from it... once your able to watch a deer walk by you and still feel satisfied that you weren't busted that you could have taken a shot, but didn't because it would have been a bad one.. that's when you have the "feaver" under control. I still get that "rush" that non hunters will never understand everytime I see that deer regardless of what it is, and I'll quit hunting if I stop getting that "rush" from seeing deer.  there is also an over confidence issue with allot of the guns and scopes that people buy that make them think they can take a deer by shooting it any old place...this comes from lack of time behind the trigger.. they pull it out a week before the season and dust it off. they don't know the limitations of their rifle, and what it is capable of doing. 
I like shooting I shoot all my guns regularly in the off season just because I like to shoot.. I've set up targets at 200-300 hundred yards just so I know what my bullet does at that range.. and in minnesota the longest shot I've ever taken on a deer was just over 100 yards... (got her too).

[sochr000]

It comes down, in my opinion, to how you were raised into hunting.  It also depends on your attitude, respect for the animal, patience, and laziness.

I started hunting with a hand-me-down .410 both for small game and for deer.  I think it helped a lot, it made me pick my shots carefully, it made me understand limitations of my gun, etc.

Attitude is a major factor, if you think your gun can take any animal at any range, with any angle of shot, then yeah, you're going to be a bad hunter, if you learn as much as you can about what you're using it provides a much better shot.

If you don't care if you cause suffering in the animal, don't respect it, etc, then you shouldn't hunt again until you gain some respect for the animal. (again, my opinion)

Patience helps a lot as well, if you can wait another 5minutes chances are, you'll get a much better shot.  Being willing to pass-up a deer is a major part of hunting.  People who do the "I saw brown and shot" will continue losing deer until they can learn to wait a couple minutes to get a better shot.

And laziness, ahh yes, it sounds bad, but really, I think a properly lazy hunter is a good hunter (jokingly of course).  I don't want to track a deer any farther than I have to, so being a lazy hunter has made me, in my opinion, a better hunter.  Waiting for the "perfect shot", being knowledgeable about what I'm hunting with, etc allows me to make a cleaner kill and thus, not have to walk any farther than absolutely necessary. 

So... when/if you have kids, teach them to hunt in a way that makes them responsible hunters, and the hunting world will be a better place.

[thunderpout]

I dont bowhunt anymore because of my grouse hunting addiction , but I bowhunted long before I rifle hunted for deer, in fact I turkey hunted first also... and I will admit I'm more of a upland bird hunter more than anything.  I started rifle hunting for deer mostly because of my friends peer pressure and because I was staying out of the woods for two long weeks during my favorite time of the year.  I learned a lot of important things about deer hunting before I ever went after them with a firearm.  I havent shot a ton of deer, but I dont get whipped up into such a frenzy that I cant make a good decision about when to take a shot, where to place a shot or to take a shot at all... I learned to have patience long before I ever climbed into a stand.  To just "shoot at a deer" is not giving the animal any respect.  Of course things happen, bullets deflect off branches, we flinch, etc, but when ya take the shot, there are multiple things to consider: are you capable of making a shot because of distance, because the target's moving, because of cover it's in, because of the targets angle/stance, and are we in a good position to take a shot ?(off hand, tree or brace on a stand to brace etc) If one doesnt have the composure to let an animal go or wait for it to present itself for a better shot, ya shouldnt be in the woods with a gun.

[JCAMERON]

For the record - I primarily hunt deer via firearm. Secondary - I bow hunt. I was just saying in general. And I too, have taken shots that I should not have, and lost deer. 

[beeker]

I've lost deer... and I've missed deer and I don't want to sound like I'm preachy or perfect... but what I am saying is the year I hit a doe low real low.. we had some white hair and no blood we tracked her for a long while.. I realized a few things.. one... I needed to shoot that gun more, two... if I would have waited she would have walked under my stand and I rushed my shot, three... I disrupted allot of other people by my dumb shot, my brothers came to help, we walked into some public land by another hunter... I felt like a total dink. but I learned from this and I also learned the rush of passing on a deer when you don't have a good shot or even if you do have a good shot.

[thunderpout]

Didnt mean to sound preachy either.... beeker, yeah I know what yer sayin about knowing your weapon.... I havent lost a deer but I have missed... It was with a handgun that I got, thought I could shoot it, found out soon I couldnt... shot like 500 plus rds thru it, now Im confident I can.... I learned from that experience as you did, and thats the key, learning from our mistakes... it is just as big a rush (for me anyways) to let one pass, as ya said, plus knowing ya made a good decision.... its much better than the dread you'll feel for a long time when ya screw up and make a bad choice, eh?

[Outdoors Junkie]

I agree with what everyone is saying.  I have learned from experience what I can do with the 30.06 that I carry.  I have shot deer from the stand, and I have shot deer from the ground.  Each of these are very different from one another.  When I was younger, I would sit in a stand and as a youngster, I missed a couple deer when I got a little too excited.

Now I walk and know what shots I am looking for if I jump a deer out of it's bed.  I was very lucky this year and had four deer give me a shot I was comfortable taking.  I jumped more then four deer and had a couple I did not even raise my gun up on (too brushy and they were bounding away).  The four that I got were all very similiar.  They got up, trotted about 20-30 yards, then stopped and turned broadside to look back at me.  I took careful aim and shot.  I had a couple other deer I jumped out of their beds and pulled the gun up and was never presented with a clear shot.  So, I did not shoot.

It comes with experience.  If you have a mentor, it speeds up the processes of gaining that knowledge.

[Go Big Red!]

Patience, Practice, and Experience. 

Regardless if you bow hunt or gun hunt deer, you have to be willing to put the time in to become more proficient.  Get out to the range, try different ammo, shoot in the clothes you're going to hunt in, shoot arrows from the tree you are hanging a stand in, etc. 

Just because it looks easy on TV doesn't mean it will happen that way afield.

[mathews4ever]

Whoa guys! I have seen plenty of evidence of the poor shots bow hunters take as well.

I understand that, and I am sorry that it came off like I think bowhuners don't make bad shots. What I meant to mean is that bowhunters as a whole understand the limitations of their weapons much better and understand the importance of a quality shot for tracking and recovery of the game they chase. I have personally lost deer and I do know a bowhunter that is the exception to my theory, having shot 9 deer in the last 2 years(3 lost, 1 spine shot, 5 gut shots). The only reason I directed this towards firearm hunters is because I am sick of hearing "This 30-06 can drop any deer, no matter where you hit it", or "I shoot a 12g so it don't matter where I hit it".


Patience, Patience, Patience, then shot placement.

[Auggie]

MATHEWS4EVER,
     I don't think bow hunters know any better as whole. I think it comes down to how proficient any person becomes with any weapon they choose to shoot. It is all about experience in my opinion. Poor hunters exist with the gun and or bow alike. What your saying is understandable, it pisses me off as well when I here that crap.
   But in my book when I here the guy that says I can take a 60 yard shot with my bow and kill a deer every time, it is no better than the dude saying all he has to do is pull the trigger on his .06 and the deer is going to tip over. You see where I am going with this? It all boils down to experience and knowledge with your weapon and the situations that are presented to you in the field. Remember, like I said, I am not choosing a side here, just presenting it from both angles.

[thunderpout]

I know exactly what your saying... there's a guy I work with who used to deer hunt with his relatives in the north part of the shotgun zone, he used to almost brag about how many rounds their group let go... Im not kidding ya... nine hunters, 229 slugs launched. (and not all got deer!) None of them had scopes, and they'd be launching slugs from 100-300 yds with their bird barrels at running deer!  I know slug hunting is kind of a different animal, but me and my other co-workers were just amazed at this, he always would be bitching about run ins with neighbors when trying to recover deer that ran gut shot and limbs hanging and worse onto their property... there is definatly a mentality of if you can see brown its going down, but thankfully not all of us look at hunting as being that way.

[Go Big Red!]

Let's not forget about ethical hunting either.  Whatever game you take, take the animal down cleanly and quickly.  This is something that should be handed down from generation to generation.  If not, hopefully you payed attention during firearm/hunter safety. 

Regardless if you bow or gun hunt, be a responsible hunter.  Know you equipments limitations.  Know how to judge a deer on the hoof.  Know when to release the arrow or pull the trigger.  And know when to say you need more practice. 

229 slugs!?!  That's just plain dumb...

[Cody Gruchow]

229 slugs? just think if they were rifle bullets! someone would get hurt!!!! why would you even tell someone that, if my party shot that much and everyone didnt have a deer or multiple deer i would be ashamed. we as a group site our rifles in and if you dont do it with us you have to prove to us that its on. we dont mess around, thats the last thing anyone wants is to cripple a deer and not find it. I had it happen to me last year for the first time, and i hope its the last time. that deer pops into my mind everytime i draw on a deer or put the crosshairs on a deer and yes shotguns can cripple and not kill deer, thats what i was using. i rarely shoot more than 1 time at a deer. i started out with a single shot 20 gauge and was taught make that 1 shot count. and for bow hunters i know to misjudge distance is a real big thing, i pace each shooting lane from the tree and mark them with the color pin it is green for 10 and so on.(yes i do have a 10 yard pin because i dont need a 50 yard pin) all it is, is practice with your weapon is what it comes down to mostly, also have to have hunter ethics. if your just out there to shoot something then get out of the woods!!!!

[stevejedlenski]

   But in my book when I here the guy that says I can take a 60 yard shot with my bow and kill a deer every time, it is no better than the dude saying all he has to do is pull the trigger on his .06 and the deer is going to tip over.

i figured since someone mentioned it maybe this is photoshoped or maybe someone can shoot 60 yards at a deer but didnt know that their bow couldnt kill a deer at that distance?? something to think about

[Auggie]

Steve,
   Where did you find that?

[Go Big Red!]

Steve-

That looks original, not photoshoped. What a shame...

Like I said before, know your limits and your equipments' limits and we can avoid wasting a phenomenal deer like that one.

[stevejedlenski]

here is the link just scroll down and youll find it
http://www.advanced-whitetail-hunting.com/Deer-Pictures.html

[Auggie]

Steve-

That looks original, not photoshoped. What a shame...

Like I said before, know your limits and your equipments' limits and we can avoid wasting a phenomenal deer like that one.

Don't count him out yet! They are a very resilient animal. If an infection doesn't get him he will likely make it. I shot one 10 years ago or so that had a broad head lodged in his back strap right next to the spine. I also took one into my shop a few years back that had a broadhead lodged in his skull. Both came from the previous year. In fact the one I shot could have been even longer. The broadhead was encased in a mass of tissue larger than a softball!

[stevejedlenski]

ok how does this one fair...

maybe its the arrows, they look the same, or maybe same hunter?? haha 

[JCAMERON]

Yeah, theres a good chance that bigger one would be fine. My dog got a rapala stuck in her neck and the hook stayed in there for months. She was fine. A rusty one at that!

[mathews4ever]

Deer are tough, like Auggie said, if infection doesn't get them the arrow won't hurt them a bit. My buddy Jake shot a deer a couple years ago that had a big lump on its neck and when he cut into it to see what it was, he found a bear razorhead wrapped in scar tissue.

[Auggie]

ok how does this one fair...

maybe its the arrows, they look the same, or maybe same hunter?? haha 

That is about the same spot the one I shot had a broad head in it. Maybe a bit further back. Man that site you are getting these from would really get the anti bow folks lathered up!

[stevejedlenski]

think these are bad there was one pic from a newspaper that a cat had about 6 inches of an arrow sticking out of it, the owner said it crawled all the way back to the porch and they had to bring it to the vet... that is some bad PR for hunters.

[guythathunts]

does using a gun mean you can take any shot?


Yes

[stevejedlenski]

does using a gun mean you can take any shot?


Yes

you just opened a can of worms and will find out they were leaches... haha but i hope your more ethical that what you just said... anyone else think so?