cross bows

[trout whisperer]

are you for or against crossbows.........why or why not???
thanks tw

[22lex]

I don't know why you couldn't use them in this state as a weapon, but not sure what category they would fit under, gun/bow. Haven't been exposed to them that much, but I know they are used in other states quite frequently.

One of my friends uses one as he cannot use his left arm that well in pulling a bow back. He doesn't seem to have too much advantage over everyone else 'cause he barely shoots a doe a year.

[stevejedlenski]

you can use crosbows in mn. only during the firearms season with a firearms tag. you cannot posses them outdoors unlessed cased if your non disabled except during the deer firearms season. if you cannot pull back a bow you may want to check about getting a permit to use one. my brother used one this year for a few days but never saw anything.

[BiggA]

Crossbows should be left to the gun season only. A big part of the challenge when archery hunting is drawing your bow. Crossbows are at full draw and locked in to place just aim and pull the trigger like a gun.

[MnArch]

Tough question.  At the same time archers have to draw their bow, but they also have to have a deer in range.  A crossbow gives you absolutely no advantage in accuracy or range......but you don't have to draw.  I think the state should allow seniors to choose between a crossbow or a regular bow like Wisconsin does.  Many seniors are turned off to hunting because they don't know how to obtain a permit and/or don't want to jump through the hoops. 

[trout whisperer]

rifle, pistol, shotgun, bow,( compound, recurve) black powder, ........whats the hang up with cross bows.......i just dont get it????

[Cody Gruchow]

i dont think you can call it archery. you can use them if you have a permit. i think people with disabilitys and senior citizens should be the only ones to use them. if you want to use one during the firearms season then thats your choice i like that an everyday person cant use one for archery. i think it gives them more of an advantage. but everyone has there own opinions

[stevejedlenski]

i think crossbows give a hunter a big advantage over a compound. they shoot faster, flatter, you dont even have to stand to shoot it, or move much. you have a scope verses a peep, and the worst thing is then people will road hunt a lot more (in my opinion). i think its a great added challenge during the firearms season, but way too easy to take a deer with to let it be used more than a week or two. i think its great that disabled hunters can use it, otherwise they are stuck with firearms which is very cold and most cant do cold temps. but i think it would be a bad idea to loosen up the regs more than the firearms season. i think its great as another option during firearms but wouldnt like to see it go any farther than that. same goes with the drawlock. and am disapointed they lowered the min draw weight.

[Cody Gruchow]

i completely agree with steve

[22lex]

This conversation probably happened when the first compound bows came out. (Maybe a couple seasoned veterans can recall that timeframe)! 

I'm sure the traditional hunters of the time were also saying the same things about "advantage", "disapointed", and "not fair".

We all have our opinions on the matter, but cannot deny that compound bows are a very effective tool to take game with and have completely been redesigned numerous times for us to take game more efficiently over the years, and will continue to do so as long as there is a marketplace to sell them in. Wiskerbiscuits, lumanescant (SP) pins, mechanical releases, limb savers, are all value-added when thinking about an advantage.

We could look at the ethical side of this and say that a faster, more accurate, deadlier form of hunting is better to use for more efficient kills by a person with a crossbow thus resulting in less wounded animals.

Like I said on an earlier post, I haven't been around them enough to know the advantages, but hunting comes in all forms and I wouldn't be too quick to slam them as they are essentially one of us in the end who has a moral obligation to piss off PETA!

[The General]

I say let the arrows fly.  In all forms.

[stevejedlenski]

i agree with you lex, where my problem comes is that i think that they should not coinside with the regular archery season. if they make a crossbow season i may just use one. but i just dont think its enough of a challenge to be able to use them for that long. i would be fine with a 3 week season at the most, but dont think just because it shoots a bolt (arrow) that it should be used for such a long timeframe.

[22lex]

I agree with that Steve, they should make the season Jan1- Jan 25 for an extra twenty five days of hunting for me!

[NDGUY]

22lex.... good post

[MnArch]

i think crossbows give a hunter a big advantage over a compound. they shoot faster, flatter, you dont even have to stand to shoot it, or move much. you have a scope verses a peep, and the worst thing is then people will road hunt a lot more (in my opinion). i think its a great added challenge during the firearms season, but way too easy to take a deer with to let it be used more than a week or two. i think its great that disabled hunters can use it, otherwise they are stuck with firearms which is very cold and most cant do cold temps. but i think it would be a bad idea to loosen up the regs more than the firearms season. i think its great as another option during firearms but wouldnt like to see it go any farther than that. same goes with the drawlock. and am disapointed they lowered the min draw weight.

#1- Faster?....Barely. Many of the crossbows in use aren't even as fast as some of the newer compounds.
#2- Flatter?....A common misconception for many is that because it has a stock, it shoots like a rifle. See #1.
#3- Scope?.... I know guys that used glass on their compound bows in the 80's. Got one on my target bow and would maybe use one on my huntin' rig but it's weather I worry about...glare, rain, etc.....I Like it a little simpler.
#4- Big advantage?....I dare say that I think I could shoot just as good a group with my compound if free standing with both.
#5- I haven't stood on my treestand yet when shooting a deer, and Iv'e taken a few.(kinda scared of falling)... I've also won tournaments shooting on my knees because of the wind.
That said, I do agree that used in lieu of a gun during that season is o.k., not sure during the regular archery season though.....

Barry

[MnArch]

22lex.... good post

+1 

[stevejedlenski]

mnarch, thats like saying using corn is barely better than using a salt block....

[BiggA]

I dont know a whole lot about crossbows but I believe they can have over 100lb draw. How could that not shoot faster and flatter than most compounds in the 50 -70 range?

[stevejedlenski]

well crossbows really dont have much of a statistical difference fastest compound bows now can shoot 300 fps and the fastest crossbows shoot 400 fps. difference is draw weight can be almost 200 lbs on some crossbows. There really isnt much of an advantage but the ones it does can take someone whos almost completely a novice can easily kill a deer at 60+ yards with a crossbow iin good conditions. now most experienced hunters (from what i gather) wont think of taking a shot over 30-40 yards. there can be just too much that can happen, but with a cross bow holding steady is not a problem. i guess what im saying is compounds take a lot more skill to use wich gives the crossbow the biggest advantage along with the others.

[rod-man]

I dont know a whole lot about crossbows but I believe they can have over 100lb draw. How could that not shoot faster and flatter than most compounds in the 50 -70 range?

as a disabled crossbow user I feel the need to help clear the air a little
1.. the crossbow has a greater draw weight but it only has a power stroke of 10-15 inches with a 17in arrow... the compound bow has a 19-26inch power stroke with a 28-32inch arrow
with a shorter stroke the draw weight has to be higher to acheeve the same speed.
2.. steader,easer to shoot?  the average compound bow weighs 2.5-5lbs  The average crossbow weighs 7.75-9.5lbs  I dare anyone to try holding one of each at arms length for more than a few seconds and tell me that a crossbow is steader.
3.. long shots... The ACA  (american crossbow assc.) recomonds only ethicial shots at reasonable ranges be taken they reccomend 40yds as MAX.  I have seen shows on tv where compound shooters have shot at animals at 80 yds.
4.. speical  seasons..I like the fact that I can hunt during the fall
I am disabled I lost my left leg. I have a prostedic leg from the knee down. I also have had surgery on both shoulders. There fore I cant get up in elevated stands,or draw a bow I have a friend cock my crossbow. I hunt from the ground. with my leg I dont do snow and ice well at all. so I am glad that I can hunt when its nice out.
I have a permit to shoot from a standing car but I dont.  I get out and walk slow
I was a compound bow hunter for more than 35yrs now I hunt with a crossbow and I personally find it sastyfying but NOT ANY EASER than a compound bow
if any one has questions about crossbows PM me and I will gladly answer what ever I can.

[Joe@deerhunters]

Rod-Man

So in your opinion should cross-bows be allowed for use in the regular archery season by anyone or remain an option for physically challenged hunters by permit only?

[rod-man]

sorry on the late responce I've been away from my puter
I personaly think that they should be allowed with EXCEPTIONS...
I think that there should be a training class that must be passed just like firearms/archery
that goes into detal about crossbows and thier capabilities to help more people understand about them
I'm old enough to rember all the arugments about compounds when they came out
but there still here and used more than ever

I also rember when PAPER GRAPH DEPTH FINDERS came out and it was proposed that they be banned in MN. 
now you cant find one there all LCD and better than ever

Crossbows have been around for centuries and will allways be here
we (the public) just need to understand them better

and yes I think they should be allowed during regular season
WITH TRAINING

[LJL]

Crossbows should only be used during the rifle season due to the fact that they are carryed in the cocked and loaded position.  It puts them right up there with guns.  The only exception should be for handicapped hunters who cannot draw a compound or traditional bow.  There is also the fact that the bolts are much lighter in most cases than arrows shot from either compounds or traditional equipment, somewhere I have a kinetic energy chart that shows that even a 100 plus pound crossbow does not achieve the same penetration due to this lighter bolt weight.

[HUNTER2]

I might have to disagree with the bolts being lighter. When I look at them in the store the bolts are shorter but they are bigger around. The newer carbon arrows are very light. Speed means penitration also. All depends on the distance. It seems the DNR is triing to kill every deer that is out there, so I don't know why they aren't used during archery season. Every body I talk to around here didn't see as many deer this year. They are too liberal on the doe tags. Sorry, I got off subject.

[trout whisperer]

to me its just another hunting tool......i think it would be a gas to use on coyotes...or any predator hunt....not just deer hunting...turkey ?....its a silent way of pullin the trigger.....they are so small now and compact......if you want toss in a scope......these cross bows are getting really tricked out......but they come with a stigma thats for sure.........tw

[GRIZ]

I don't think there is any advantage in hunting. Maybe at the target range but not much. Reason I say this remember them older bows, the ones that made a little twang when ya released the arrow. Well the compound bows have minimized that a bunch in the last thirty yrs.

Crossbows don't twang, they THWACK. I have yet to see one that has found a way to minimize that. We have 2 Goldielox has a permit an uses hers for hunting, I have one just to play with. I've put all the stuff on hers to make it quite. It didn't change one bit. It's still just as loud as mine with nothing.

It's been my observation that when the deer hear the noise of a bow they will duck as they bolt away. For that reason alone I'd say the max range on any crossbow is about 20 yds. They are capable of shooting further than that but not in hunting situations.

I think they should open them up. People could use them for small game, predator hunting, bowfishing, big game, etc.

I do agree with rod man about haveing some kind of training first though. Inform them that the practical effective killing range of a crossbow is about 25-35% less than it is with a compound. How many people would use them then.

I've looked for another quiter model for Goldielox and can't find one. The 3 archery shops I have been to told me they don't know of one either. That's my $.02


I do have one thing I would like to use mine for other than targets. Turkey hunting, now what would be the reason for not being able to use it for that. It's open for guns why not crossbows?

[mathews4ever]

I personally don't think they should be allowed during archery season, but it is going to happen. It really is hipicritical for most hunters to shun them for the unfair advantage theory anyway. If that is the route of attack then we should also get rid of compound bows, scent killers, all scents, food plots, game cameras, tree stands, ground blinds, game calls, and any other thing that might give a hunter an advantage.

The general public will hunt with crossbows eventually. I say instead of trying to stop it, try to make the rules. We should be pushing for a crossbow only season. I don't hate that jan. idea. We should also be be working with the MN bowhunters association, MBI, and MSAA to try and come up with a set of regulations to propose to the DNR and Congress.


I would like to add that I do 100% support the use of crossbows during the regular archery season for Disabled persons and Senior citizens.

[trout whisperer]

cross bows are too cool not to be able to hunt with........just a different hunting experience......tw

[trout whisperer]

disabled hunters.........they still need to get to there stand,,,,,,,gut the deer.........drag the deer.......etc etc..........i have to get to my stand.......drag the deer.......gut the deer........im abit jealous they get to use the hunting tool i dont........tw

[GRIZ]

I personally don't think they should be allowed during archery season, but it is going to happen. It really is hipicritical for most hunters to shun them for the unfair advantage theory anyway. If that is the route of attack then we should also get rid of compound bows, scent killers, all scents, food plots, game cameras, tree stands, ground blinds, game calls, and any other thing that might give a hunter an advantage.

I would like to add that I do 100% support the use of crossbows during the regular archery season for Disabled persons and Senior citizens.

I agree with this except I think they should be allowed for anything a compound is.

The reason is as stated in my previous post. They shoot a subsonic projectile. The effective range is limited to the combination of 2 things. (1)The reaction time of the animal + the time it takes for the projectile to get to target .VS. (2)the speed of sound. Well that ain't exactly right. It's more like if the reaction time of the target is less than the difference in the speed of the projectile, then it's a miss. If greater then a hit. It's too late to sit and figure out a formula to explain it to mathmaticians as they can do that themselves.

Anyhow the compounds  IMO have the advantage as I believe they have gotten quite enough not to spook most game. Crossbows show me one.

I do see a problem arising out of the fact that allot of idiots think a crossbow would be good out at greater distances than compounds. That would cause allot of wounded animals. That is why I think allow them provided they take some training. Compounds have the hunting advantage but crossbows MIGHT have the ballistic advantage.

Just to add to this. Would you be against someone hunting bear with a hand thrown spear. I'll explain the reason for asking later. After a few replies.