Elk on the loose!!!!

[Go Big Red!]

A cow elk was struck this morning near Cabela's.  It was hit by a SUV and the driver called in and stated "I hit a really big deer or it may have been an elk".  It had escaped from the elk ranch that is located SE of Cabela's.  Can you image the insurance claim on that thing?  Also one was shot and killed by the Brooklyn Park Police Dept. today as well.  What is this world coming to?

[kenhuntin]

That is one of the bonuses of being a peace officer but you can't plan your hunts. You never know when you are gonna get an elk permit

[deadeye]

Animals escaping from game farms is one of the bigest threats to wild life in Minnesota.  One thing has been proven time and again.. They will escape!

[Jdrummer]

Where did the elk get teh lock picking tools? 

[Auggie]

Animals escaping from game farms is one of the bigest threats to wild life in Minnesota.  One thing has been proven time and again.. They will escape!

Deadeye that is a crock. Game farm animals are no different than domestic animals when it comes to spreading disease. In fact they are considered farm raised animals just like the rest to the MN Board of Animal Health. They also are under much more stringent rules than any other farm raised animals for disease control and testing. The vast majority of cattle, pigs, chickens,turkeys and the like are now raised in confinement barns where disease can quickly get out of control. The TB outbreak was most likely started by cattle imported from Mexico not game farm animals. If you are worried about CWD, Stop now. I think I may have already posted a study done on elk in a game farm situation here someplace. If not I would be happy to find it for you and post it again sometime. The animals in a worse case scenario were still able to grow in numbers. So please, before you talk about some folks lively hood in a negative way, you might want to have some facts to back up a statement like that. Some place along the line that seed of fear was planted in many peoples head without any real facts to back it up.

[UncleDave]

Ditto Augg's post, plus I have eaten some of the elk sticks fom the farm near Rogers.  Talk about delicious.  Animals will escape from any and every facility eventually.  I trust our DNR has evaluated the risks and made a decision.  Nothing is 100%.  There are domestic animals of a crapload of species. 

[Auggie]

Ditto Augg's post, plus I have eaten some of the elk sticks fom the farm near Rogers.  Talk about delicious.  Animals will escape from any and every facility eventually.  I trust our DNR has evaluated the risks and made a decision.  Nothing is 100%.  There are domestic animals of a crapload of species. 

Dave that is exactly right. A few years back the Board of Animal Health took over the job of over seeing game farm operations from the DNR. For few good reasons. It is a farming industry after all. They had the people with knowledge (veterinarians) and better funds to support a good monitoring program for disease control. We as operators are required to do testing on each animal slaughtered or deceased for CWD and also test for other disease like TB and Brucellosis in set intervals by the board. We are required to pay a fee that directly funds state inspectors who randomly spot check operations for fencing, program participation records, proper id tags for animals, or other violations. Really a pretty good system considering it is Government run!

[ScottPugh]

I live 1.2 miles from that farm. I'm stillw aiting for one to look over my 6' high privacy fence at me. 

[BigDog]

By DOUG SMITH, Star Tribune
Last update: September 22, 2009 - 7:40 AM

Federal sharpshooters have begun destroying a herd of about 700 elk on a farm in southeastern Minnesota where chronic wasting disease (CWD) was discovered this year.

Sharpshooters with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services shot elk Friday and Monday on the farm off Hwy. 52 near Pine Island, after the federal agency reached an agreement with the herd's owners concerning compensation and cleanup. A cow elk at Elk Farm LLC -- the largest such farm in the state -- was found to have the disease in January, and the herd has been quarantined since.

The 1,300-acre farm was purchased in 2006 by Tower Investments of Woodland, Calif., and is part of 2,300 acres the firm plans to develop north of Rochester for a bioscience research and manufacturing center called Elk Run. It would include 15 to 25 bioscience companies, as well as offices, shops and homes, officials say.

"This is very sad situation for all of us at Tower Investments," project manager Geoff Griffin said.

"But it's totally out of our control. The good thing is, it does not affect our development."

All of the elk will be killed over the next 10 days or so and tested for the fatal brain disease, then will be disposed of, said Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health. None of the meat can be salvaged for human consumption.

"There's no evidence that it causes disease in people," Anderson said, "but with a known infected herd, we just would not take any risks with humans."

Tower Investments will be compensated for the animals by the Agriculture Department. Federal officials said Monday that they're unsure what the total cost will be.

To prevent the spread of CWD to wild deer, the top couple of inches of topsoil on the farm will be removed and stored behind a fenced area for five years, Anderson said. Tower Investments will pay for that, he said. "Normally, we'd require that fences stay up [on a farm] for five years," Anderson said, "but because of the need to develop that land, they will remove the soil and pile it up behind a fence for five years."

3,000 deer to be tested

The Department of Natural Resources also plans to test 3,000 deer for CWD that are expected to be killed by hunters this fall in southeastern Minnesota. The testing, which will cost more than $200,000, was prompted by the presence of CWD at the Pine Island elk farm and by the proximity of deer in the region to Wisconsin, where wild deer have been infected with CWD, said Ed Boggess, DNR policy section chief. The U.S. Department of Agriculture will pay about $70,000 of the cost, he said.

Though no elk have escaped from the Pine Island farm, Anderson said two wild deer somehow managed to get inside the fenced farm and were destroyed. Since the disease was first found in the state in a captive elk herd in 2002, DNR officials have been concerned that it could spread to Minnesota's approximately 1 million wild deer. There are about 20,000 captive deer and elk in the state, and the disease can be spread through nose-to-nose contact. The infected elk at Pine Island was the sixth captive deer or elk in the state found to have CWD.

The DNR has tested more than 30,000 wild deer, and none has tested positive.

The Pine Island elk farm has been an icon in the area for years, and the elk often were seen by drivers on busy Hwy. 52. The farm was owned by brothers John and Karl Hoehne. Karl Hoehne declined to comment Monday, and John Hoehne couldn't be reached.

Though the long-standing elk farm would have been phased out as development occurred, Griffin, the project manager, said that Tower Investments had intended to keep some elk there, and that that still might happen, even after the herd is destroyed. "We're going to wait five years, just to be safe," he said, and possibly add elk later to some enclosures on the site.

Meanwhile, Griffin said water and sewer lines are being laid at the development and that the state is expected to let bids for a Hwy. 52 interchange there. He said construction of some bioscience buildings should begin next year.



What a waste of elk,deer,and money only a matter of time before this disease is spread to Minnesota's deer heard!

[Auggie]

Yes Big dog it is a waste. It will be found in the wild herd eventually. That is fact. But if you want to blame farmed cervids for the problem you are barking up the wrong tree. This disease is just another one of mother natures way of thinning the herd. The percentage of wild animals that have this disease in CWD regions throughout the country are miniscule compared to other naturally occurring disease. CWD is blown completely out of proportion by the media and anti-farmed cervid groups. You may also want to go and read the study that I previously posted here. Get some facts about the disease and how it will affect populations in the wild.

[BigDog]

First off I just want you to know that I am not blaming elk farms for the possible spread of CWD.  Is it possible that it could happen?  Absolutly!  Just curious do you know what affect CWD would have on a human being?  Didn't think so.  Nobody does!  That makes us equal in knowledge on CWD and its affect on humans!  The only thing the study you posted tells me is that "We know that CWD is always fatal to individual animals" and "Kreeger warns that these data are preliminary and that it would be speculative at this point to extrapolate these data to any wild elk populations."  The study you posted holds absolutly no water with me. I do know that if one deer is found to have CWD this fall in the area of this farm thousands more will be shot. Thats a fact! It's an absolute waste! Thats a fact! If you think that I don't know anything about CWD you are sadly mistaken, you know absolutly nothing about me.  Thats a fact!

[atcher]

Wow, I haven't read any articles where people are going after each other on this website till now...mostly nice hunting/fishing folks enjoying the outdoors.  CWD/sponge brain will affect the Minnesota big game hunters eventually, just as global warming will kill us all.  I drive past that same Elk "sanctuary" most days back and forth to town to do my job, never thought anything, but "those are some nice creatures".  What the hell has this little Elk farm in Rogers done wrong.  Them bastards.  A cow got out of the fence somehow and got hit by a car and now CWD is going to over run this great state and ruin our hunting .  Come on.  Noboby has the answer, or we would have it by now.  Just like the Emerald ash borer.  They chased it through Michigan, Wisconsin, and now we have "experts" in Minnesota that are going to fix it.

[Auggie]

First off I just want you to know that I am not blaming elk farms for the possible spread of CWD.  Is it possible that it could happen?  Absolutly!  Just curious do you know what affect CWD would have on a human being?  Didn't think so.  Nobody does!  That makes us equal in knowledge on CWD and its affect on humans!  The only thing the study you posted tells me is that "We know that CWD is always fatal to individual animals" and "Kreeger warns that these data are preliminary and that it would be speculative at this point to extrapolate these data to any wild elk populations."  The study you posted holds absolutly no water with me. I do know that if one deer is found to have CWD this fall in the area of this farm thousands more will be shot. Thats a fact! It's an absolute waste! Thats a fact! If you think that I don't know anything about CWD you are sadly mistaken, you know absolutly nothing about me.  Thats a fact!

Simmer down Big Dog. You are jumping the gun here. I agree with you. It is a waste. I already said that. It is going to be found in the wild population at some point. No question about it. We are surrounded by other states that have confirmed the disease. But the biggest waste is tossing $ at a problem we have zero control over. It will come whether we have farmed cervids or not. All I was saying.
As for the study, you take it how you want. What it proves to me is this. In a worse case scenario animals still were able to keep a steady number or increase herd size. This study was done on elk that in most cases only have one calf per year and rarely their first year. Deer on the other hand tend to have multiple births in a large portion of the population. It is also common for deer to have young their first year. Since the animals can carry it for years without showing symptoms, simple math tells me that even an infected deer could produce several young before ever succumbing to the disease.
What I do know about the affect on humans is it has not been proven to have one (negative or positive) at all on us. People have been eating animals from infected regions for several years either by choice or just not knowing. I have not heard of one documented case of any problems related to CWD in humans. Will I continue to eat it if found in MN? You bet.
I am glad to here you don't blame the farming operations for spreading the disease. My statement wasn't meant to single you out as blaming the industry for the spread of the disease, though I can see where you may have read it that way. I never claimed you know nothing about CWD either. Just posted some information for those that don't, and here only the negative information from the media and others who blame the industry.
In the post about the study I offered to help show anyone interested how to take a brain sample from their deer if they are concerned. I will give you the information on where to send it as well. This offer is open to anyone interested.

[deadeye]

Auggie,
I gather from your posts that you feel we shouldn't do anything to prevent the spread of CWD because "It is going to be found in the wild population at some point."  I suspose the same could be said for milfoil, zebra muscles, birch bores, oak wilt, H1N1 etc.  I beleive it is in our best interest to do what we can to prevent the spread of these non native issues.  The existense of game farms by themselves doesn't promote the spread of disease.  The big issue (my opinion) is the sale and transport of amimals from other locations.  Yes, CWD may eventually make it's way here, however, why rush it by bringing in potentially infected animals from locations that currently have outbreaks?  I think we should do all we can to prevent the introduction of these diseases rather than take the stand that it will happen anyway so why fight it. 

[Auggie]

Auggie,
I gather from your posts that you feel we shouldn't do anything to prevent the spread of CWD because "It is going to be found in the wild population at some point."  I suspose the same could be said for milfoil, zebra muscles, birch bores, oak wilt, H1N1 etc.  I beleive it is in our best interest to do what we can to prevent the spread of these non native issues.  The existense of game farms by themselves doesn't promote the spread of disease.  The big issue (my opinion) is the sale and transport of amimals from other locations.  Yes, CWD may eventually make it's way here, however, why rush it by bringing in potentially infected animals from locations that currently have outbreaks?  I think we should do all we can to prevent the introduction of these diseases rather than take the stand that it will happen anyway so why fight it. 

That is not what I am saying at all Deadeye. All the testing in the world of the wild population will only tell us one thing. If we have it or not. Waste of money I feel. We either have it or we don't. If we do bringing in a bunch of sharpshooters it will not stop the disease from spreading as they will not be able to eradicate every deer in a given area. Especially when they could have the disease and not show any sign or test positive for it for years.
As for the movement issue you are concerned with. Here is a little explanation how that is already being handled. The board of health has a very strict movement policy which includes not transporting animals from places with known outbreaks. Also animals can only be moved into a herd here (MN) from a different location if they meet the same standards of surveillance that is already established in a MN herd. This not only includes CWD but other disease as well. Besides most of the animals are being shipped out of the state not into the state from other locations. The ones coming in are high end breeding stock that need to fit into very well monitored herds at this point. These breeders can't risk bringing in animals that come from areas with disease outbreaks or they risk losing their status. Lose your status and you lose your income. Simple as that. Of course there will always be the irresponsible people that move without following the law. But there is far less of a chance of someone in this industry doing that than fisherman not looking over boats and trailers for exotics or people moving firewood.

[22lex]

The biggest waste of killing all those animals is that regardless of the outcome of testing done by our state, they will all be rendered, and not consumed.

This elk farm is about 10 miles away from where I live, and I can't even get a tenderloin?

B.S. I say!

[Randy Kaar]

There is another elk farm in the Denham/Sturgeon Lake area, Not to far from my property. Labor Day weekend, There were a bunch of big boys out there. Last weekend, We didnt see one..
I might head up there tomorrow and get some more work done on the property and maybe stop
by the farm and find out what happened in our area.

randy

[deadeye]

This report sums it up. 
""Right now we don't know how long it's been in the herd, or at what level it's been in the herd,'' said Paul Anderson of the state Board of Animal Health. He said no animals have been brought to the farm for about five years.

It is the sixth captive deer or elk in Minnesota found with CWD. Three elk at two farms in Aitkin and Stearns counties tested positive in 2002 and 2003, and two whitetail deer from a Lac qui Parle County farm tested positive in 2006.

Endangering state's deer

Since chronic wasting disease was found in the state, DNR officials have been concerned it could spread to the state's wild deer, which number about 1 million. The DNR has tested more than 30,000 wild deer since 2001, and none tested positive. But though state-licensed big game farms must be fenced, animals have escaped. The disease can spread through nose-to-nose contact.

In response to the discovery, the DNR plans to conduct an aerial survey of wild deer in the area to assess deer densities. But officials said they probably will wait until next fall to test deer killed by hunters in that area for CWD. Last fall, the DNR tested about 500 hunter-killed deer along the Wisconsin border, including Olmsted County, and another 1,500 deer in northwestern Minnesota as part of an ongoing disease survey. None tested positive.  Still, the latest case is concerning for deer managers and hunters.

Am I paranoid? I doubt it.  One of my biggest concerns is the fact that it could take 5 years for symptoms to show up.  So even if a location doesn't have a history of CWD, it still could harbor the disease.

[Auggie]

What does that sum up deadeye? That it has been found in farmed animals and not in the wild. Isn't that a good thing? That proves that the system in place is working. The animals were detected early because of the disease control policies in place. Three of those tested animals are 6 and 7 years ago respectively. The Lac Qui Parle farm supposedly contracted the disease from butchered WILD animals brought into the state. That herd was a closed herd without shipment in or out for 5+ years if I remember correctly. That is the area I hunt and have hunted all my life. Am I afraid to eat the deer? Not at all.
So I see no reason you or anyone else should be paranoid at all. For all anyone knows the wild deer population spread it to the farmed animals. The disease is not just a farm problem. And blaming the farms for spreading the disease is a complete farce. That is like saying we should quit raising beef cattle because they could transfer TB or Brucellosis to the wild deer herd. Do you blame the cattle farmer for bringing TB to the state? Do you see where I am going with this?
Blaming the growers is just not a valid argument.

[Auggie]

The biggest waste of killing all those animals is that regardless of the outcome of testing done by our state, they will all be rendered, and not consumed.

This elk farm is about 10 miles away from where I live, and I can't even get a tenderloin?

B.S. I say!

That is a shame Lex. The animals could be quartered and frozen until the tests came back. All negatives could supply a great deal of meat to the food shelves or anyone else for that matter.

[22lex]

I have kept pretty good tabs on the CWD garbage since it was so close to the Mississippi in our Cheesehead neighbors yard. I agree with you Auggie that the regulations that are in place now and before probably kept CWD in check in the cervid farm community. What wasn't kept in check were the randomn movings of dead carcasses, and the shady fame farmers who were moving animals against the law. I feel this is what started the outbreak in WI, ie; dead carcasses dumped, bones ditched, etc... Just my opinion though. Auggie seems to have first hand knowledge on how stringent the rules are for a game farmer, and we can be sure he knows more than most.


From what I know the CWD, or irregular prions that are found in CWD victims were more than likely passed to elk or mulies from sheep that were left to roam the mountains in the early days 30's-50's out West (colorado). These wild animals were either captured for farms, or probably spread this disease to the captive farm animals through fence encounters (transmission through saliva). From there anyone can speculate how it was passed, transmitted, moved, etc.... What we do know is that most authorities still cannot come to a solid conclusion on transmission, if it stays in the soil, and a whole host of other things that do put our "wild" game in a bind.

As far as the elk farm near me, the company that is developing the land for a bioscience technology campus plans on paying for the first layer (5 -6") of dirt to be removed and quarantined in a high fence situation for five years.

And Auggie, our DNR studies we paid for last year on sheep took care of the food shelf option.

[Auggie]

Lex you are right on. The carcass issues and the illegal movements are a large part of the issue. But like the exotic issues that deadeye mentioned, all the regulations in the world can't keep the ignorant from being just that. They will continue to not look at their boats and trailers, dump illegal carcass, and the shady folks will continue to operate like that.
My whole point to most of this post was not to start a pissing match. It was to get people who have been misinformed on a very serious issue to see it from the perspective of the growers out here making a living. Most people that have a problem with high fence operations are either misinformed, uninformed, or just plain will not listen to the reasoning behind it. Some disagree with having "wild" animals behind a fence. In the scheme of things they are no different than any other animal man has domesticated over time. Some think the growers are making money hand over fist and that bothers them. But nothing could be farther from the truth. The costs involved are not exactly chump change and the small guys that are more into it for a hobby like myself really make very little profit if any. The larger guys are not getting rich either. If people understood the money it takes to maintain an operation, grow, feed, take care of medical issues and all of the other things involved they might have a little better appreciation for what really goes on. Most of the things we know about CWD came from the knowledge gained from the growers and the veterinarians they work side by side with. Not to mention a vast majority of outdoor products some of the same individuals that are against the industry use every year in the field including scents and seed mixtures for the food plots they plant.
Lex, that sheep thing is whole new post. Those that needed it the most biting the hands that offered to feed them! Shooting dead sheep, now that was money well spent.

[frogee]

I don't want to add fuel to this fire but I have a different issue with farm raised deer. The problem is that they can escape and get their genes mixed up with our wild population. What problems would that cause? My honest answer is that I don't know but it could be a very big problem. I have nothing against people trying to make an honest living but some of the fences around these "high fence" areas obviously are not adequate.

[deadeye]

Well, I guess I have to figure out which bucket I fall in.
Most people that have a problem with high fence operations are either misinformed, uninformed, or just plain will not listen to the reasoning behind it.
Misinformed.  Not likely.  Unless everything I've read about CWD for the past 10 years was incorrect.
Uninformed. No.
Will not listen to the reasoning behind it.  Maybe I have listened and determined that due to all the potential problems, it is better to not have high fence game farms in Minnesota.

With all due respect, Auggie, just because I (or anyone else) has a different openion regarding  fence operations doesn't mean they "will not listen to reason" 

I'm not out to shut down operations, it's just hard to agree to allow them when every single reported case of CWD in Minnesota came from a game farm.  Just how do you suspose those diseased amimals got here in the first place? 

[Auggie]

     Honestly deadeye, it really does mean that those that are against it will not listen to reason or fall into one of the other "buckets" I mentioned. Unless they also feel the same way about cattle, hog, poultry, or any other form of livestock raised in MN. It is pretty clear how TB made its way into the state. We could potentially wipe out our wild turkey population with a disease carried in domestic butterballs as well. But we have not. I respect your opinion, but it is based on things that just are not true. Some of the things printed about CWD over the last ten years may have been incorrect or biased and written by some one with the same opinion as yourself. I am not assuming or trying to say I know what you have read in any way. But many of the things printed in the media have been off base or taken out of context to fit the writers opinion.
     I can tell you why every single CWD positive report has come from a farmed cervid in MN. It is because every single animal that is slaughtered or dies is tested. Period. In the wild population that just has not or can not be done. No one can say the disease came here from a farmed animal. It is just as likely it came via a carcass, killed by a hunter from the wild. Chicken or the egg? One thing is for sure, the farmed elk/deer are no more threat to our wild population than any other farmed animal in the state. Until it can be shown that they are the cause I have to believe that all people fall into one of those categories if they are against it.  Unless they are in the crowd that does not like high fence shooting operations. That is the fourth "bucket" I failed to mention. Which is a whole other post that has been hashed over here on this site already. While everyone has their opinion on that aspect of the business it is purely opinion. I my self have no interest of shooting deer or elk behind a high fence, but I have no problem with the guy that does or raising the animals for him. Just like I have no problem with eating beef, pork, or poultry raised for slaughter.
     One very important thing many are confused on is they are not "Game Farm" animals. They are farm animals.
     Frogee when it comes to the genetics it would not hurt a thing. These animals carry the same genes as wild deer only with better antler growth because of years of selective breeding. They would not breed "dumber deer" into the population either. A bottle fed "wild" deer will act just the same as bottle fed pen raised animal. In the select few deer it would have an effect on in a very small area it would do no harm to the over all population over the long term even if they were handing out 3 legs and one eye to their respective offspring.

[jkcmj]

I guess they have had a few elk get loose on the WI side of the creek. They have a couple on the trail cams in the Bluff siding area about 6 miles from Winona.  They saw some on my uncles land where we occasionally hunt.  Rumer has it they got out over by Arcadia?  Not sure on that though.  I wouldn't mind harvesting one for the freezer

[mahmoodmahi]

It would be intresting if these escaped elk began to establish populations in some areas. The only thing that is stopping the dnr from stocking wild populations throughout the state is the oposition they feel they will encounter from farmers (and probably insurance companies) due to crop damages. Of the two counties that have elk in north western Minnesota, one has shown a lot of opposition to wild elk, and the few elk tags issued each year in the state are to manage that herd.  A concerted effort to stock elk throughout the state, particularly in rural counties with higher levels of poverty and a lack of strong economic generators, could benefit the state from the initial tourism that elk would attract and later from all the hunters that would flock to Minnesota to for the chance at a big bull. Elk used to live throughout Minnesota, and we still have the habitat to support a substantial herd, so maybe some of these elk farms could help in an effort to bring back wild Elk throughout Minnesota.

[Outdoors Junkie]

While my son and I were deer hunting in the Black Hills last November, we had a herd of Elk walk by.  It was amazing!  We both sat there excited as about 30 of them wandered past.  There is a Elk season out here in SD (I believe it is limited to residents only).  When my younger boy is old enough, we will be Elk hunting with my dad.  I can't wait! 

[Randy Kaar]

Them elk are some good eating!

randy