What is a Liberal?

[Bufflehead]

 What is a Liberal?

 Lets hear it, do you really know?

 You may be surprised

[7Pines]

Well, being a human services guy and a flamin' knee-jerk liberal, I'll bite...so, what is a liberal? 
Don't worry, I don't take offense.
No health and human services budget = no work for me, so I got a vested interest. ::)
Danno

[WoodChuck]

 ???? ?LIBERAL, lenient, inhibitive, bilateral, environmental, reservist, auspicious, and licentious equals LIBERALISUM !!!!!!!!!!!?

[jigglestick]

I just say - wishy washy  ::)

[Bufflehead]

Liberal

1. favorable to progress or reform, as in religious or political affairs. 2.noting or pertaining to a political party. 3 of or pertaining to representational political reform. 4. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating lideralism 5. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maxmum individual freedoms possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of cival liberties. ? 6. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression. 7 free from prejudice or bigotry: tolerant. 8. open minded or tolerant esp, free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc. 9. characterized by genorosity and willingness to give in large amounts. 10. given freely or abundantly.11 not strict or rigorous: free: free:not literal 12. of, pertaining tp, or befitting a Free Man 13. a p of liberal principles or view.

[Mayfly]

Both sides have their pros and cons......

 :-*

[Bufflehead]

Conservative

1-disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc and to resist change. 2-cautious moderate. 3- traditional in style or manner; avoiding showiness. 4-of or pertaining to the conservative party. 5-of or pertaining to political conservatism. 6-having the power or tendency to conserve
;preservation. 7-of or pertaining to conservative Judaism or conservative Jews. 8-a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc 9-a member of a conservative poliical party. 10-a preservative

[Bufflehead]

 You know, when many of you vote for a person looked at as a conservative, who wants to cut Gov. programs that feed and house some single mother with 9 kids from 9 fathers and make her responsible for her actions.

 That same program may have helped your elderly parent, grandpa, grandmother, uncle, nieghbor with expenses and healthcare also.

 This is just one example of many.

 I voted for Pawlenty and Bush twice now. I wanted to save my hunting, gun ownership and kick the dead beat meth heads off of the Gov. back. I also didn't know that I would be kicking the elderly in my community right in the nuts, with a fixed income, Pricing many out of a fair living with higher gas, home heating fuels, food, medical, persciption drugs and loss of jobs nation wide for the working class.

 Then watch our young being slaughtered everyday for a war that Can't be won and a budget deficit that my great, great, great grandchildren couldn't pay off(I thought Bush was a Conservative)(Looks like a pretty Liberal spender)

 I like you, don't like my choices but will have to vote for a fair wage, more jobs and better life and hope my hunting and gun rights survive.

 Got to aford to live first...everything else come second

 

 

[7Pines]

Bufflehead...Whoah...you done said a mouthful, bro!
Like I've always said, the country would be in big trouble if run entirely by conservatives, and it'd be in big trouble run entirely by liberals.? That's yer whole two party checks and balances deal, see?? What we call a free democratic society. ::)
CAN I GET A MO-FO'IN AMEN ON THAT?!? HUH?!
 

[Bufflehead]

I'm with ya brother.

 The problem is, the Republican party(Conservative) has had control too long and too much..and with my help also.

 I don't like Hatch and don't want Pawlenty back

 In fact, you don't know how many people I have talked with that vote EVERYTIME. that say, they might not vote at all, because of the poor collection of no good so and so's we have to choose from

 They say that way NOBODY can blame them for the problems that are to come.

 A sad selection we have to choose from on either side

[labs4me]

I think you are trying to describe the old Truman-Kennedy Democrat... too bad they are few in numbers now-a-days. ?Too many 'urban liberals' running under the DFL ticket for my liking. ?They are so far out there in lefty land that I can't even begin to stomach what platforms they are running on. ?Look at all the dolt's that make up the MPLS and Henn. county seats.

I agree Bush is not a great representative of the GOP... He spends money faster than they can print it. ?I don't agree with many of the decisions he's made of late, but to tie all Republicans into the same fold is not fair to each candidate. ?I'm sure there are many outstate DFL'rs who are fine candidates, but trying to swallow the BS the big city Dems try and fork down our throats is a tough pill to swallow..

I personally think Pawlenty's done a fine job with the State, considering what was handed to him when dip-sh*t left office. ?

This should be a wake-up call for all of us that have retirement coming in the second half of our lives. ?Save up for retirement. ?S-S was never since day 1 of being created , suppose to be a plan to be the sole means for you to get by your retired life on. ?Yet many to this day expect it to and complain they can't get by on their social security. ?As our population ages (and is able to live much longer) ?seniors will cost us more money. ?That's a fact. ?That is a huge burden on those that work. ?The programs that we've set in place were developed in eras when the average age at death was 15-20 years younger than it is now, but are still suppose to be funded to the same levels to pay out the additional 15-20 years of a senior's retirement... that is a big pill to swallow when the retired 'boomers' will outnumber the workers in another decade. ? But in order to keep a 'job' in politics, they will keep funding them by raising taxes till the cows come home. ? I think we owe all seniors their Social security and Medi-care... but a decision has to be made by them if the programs don't cover the cost, are they willing to pay for it. ?My wife and I deal with this dilema dialy with our disabled son. ?We get rejected all the time for medical needs and procedures by our insurance... we just have to decide from there what we will and won't pay for.

We plain and simple have beome a much too dependent society. ?We all want 'Big Brother' to take care of everything from cradle to grave... I, for one, refuse to buy into it and will do my best to vote against it each and every election. ?We owe some standard of living to every member of our society that cannot make it on their own, but I don't think that standard should be equal across the board. ? Free health care is one of those areas that needs to be addressed. ?There is no such thing as 'free'. ?The amount of health care you recieve for 'free' should not equal what I pay a couple of thousand dollars a month for. ?Welfare is another one that needs to go through a lot more restructuring. ?Help, when needed should be available, but help is just that... HELP. ?It's not a permanent option, it's not a way for you to become dependant. ?This is from a guy who was 13 when his Dad died at 39 and his family needed help. ?We got by on next to nothing... I hated every minute of it. ?We didn't eat the best meals and we didn't have great clothes and we ate reduced priced hot-lunch at school etc, etc. ?We took very little help, but the help we got, we used and it got us by. ?Guess what, I made it a point to get a job at 14 so I wouldn't have to live like that forever and have never looked back. ?I look at all these inner-city (worked there for a couple years) folks who sit around without jobs and b*tch because they aren't getting enough money from the govt. and sit in the hospital emergency rooms because their kid has a cold and they don't need to pay the bill, and get debit cards for food stamps and welfare and blah blah blah. ?Am I angry? ?For all I see wasted everyday... Yep. ? This is an already very charitable country, yet we get back little from those who benefit most from this charity. ?For this I will always vote for the candidate who at least claims they will try and change the system... not continue to expand it.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Bufflehead]

Well thats all fine and dandy to say you have planned your retirement and don't need anybody....

Did you plan for having a stroke at 63?

Did you plan on being put in a nursing home?

Did you plan on your health insurance being canciled or doubled in price because of your stroke?

 Did you know that nursing homes have had funding cut over and over?

 Did you know that one person is going to help dress you and 10 others in one hour before you go to breakfast, might even end up rapped ina blanket and sent down anyways

Did you know that same person is going to feed 4-6 of you at the same time

Did you know your food is going to be mixed togeather to save time and shoveled into your mouth as fast as you can choke it down, well it runs down your chin

 Did you know your going to sit with a diaper that is soiled for a hour or more untill someone can get to you?

Did you know your going to sit day after day and wait for someone from your family to finally come and visit you, because they have no time for you in their life anymore because they are working too many hours and can't spread themselves out that much

 I have worked in several nursing homes, as I have worked for a nursing pool

 Keep voting to remove the free loaders(as many of you like to call them) from the system. that free loader might be you someday

[7Pines]

It is too bad that the word "liberal" connotes the super-left, softy, I'm o.k. you're o.k. tree-huggin' urban weenie stick.  I'm proud to be a democrat, but I certainly am not a 'round the bend wack-job.
I'm all for running around the world and kicking corrupt, evil ass in the name of democracy and regional stability just as much as the next guy.
And yes, there is too much abuse in the welfare system.
I don't believe in "socializing" anything, including healthcare.  Socialism is not a good system...no "ism" is, for that matter.
The country owes a debt of gratitude to many fine democrats in our nation's history.  Not a one of them was a lefty, urban weenie stick.
Danno

[labs4me]

Great last post 7-pines!  I wish more of my 'urban loving, tree hugging, granola eating, sandle wearing' freinds had your attitude.

Bufflehead,  I'd love to continue the debate with you... but I don't think people would love to read page after page of my personal life.

Let me end it with this... and I'll check out on the debate... if you are that bad off physically, maybe hope your kids aren't as selfish as the majority of the population seems to be now.  As my Mom slowly died, I took her into my home to help her live out her final weeks.  I refused to stuff her in a home.  She raised me for 19 years through thick and thin and I figured I owed her at least as many.  For months a good nights sleep comprised 3 maybe 4 hours.  Helped her get dressed, go to the bathroom and eat.  That's the way it was done for centuries! and it worked!!!!!!!!  Many societies still go this route... even in America!  I don't recall the Amish ever settleing into a nursing home.  We as a society would rather not be bothered with the elderly or sickly.  In the end she (my Mom) unfortunatley spent her last couple weeks of life in a home.  Mostly in and out of consciousness.  But we had a family member there most of the time.  We were busy trying to line up hospice, but it was to slow of a process and they wouldn't let us administer some of the strong narcotics she needed to remain comfortable until we had it lined up with a nurse stopping in...

Oh yea... I forgot one more thing, she didn't have insurance!  And not much money either... It's called family sacrifice...  oh, yeah, we also had a social worker asked if we wanted some help to get funds secured to help us... we said not until we needed them.  This wasn't long ago, it was 1998. Not that much has changed.  Where there's a will there's a way.  Unfrotunatley everybody looks to the govt.  for the way!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Bufflehead]

 labs4me

It's great your mother had a son and family like you/yours. I commend you and your family

 The fact is 90% of people would choose the home, because of inconvenice and lack of time from commitment to their jobs and other family members or because of the seriousness of the illness.

 and the fact still remains that funding has been cut over and over for nursing homes and the quality and quanity of services has suffered badly.

 I can't vote to continue this style of spending cuts and live with myself after seeing these people suffer first hand.

 I like you will not allow my parents to be put in this situation and will take care of them at home as long as needed or are able too

 If wanting take care of the sick and less forturnet makes me a Liberal, the I'm a Liberal and proud of it.
 I believe the man upstairs will see me in a better light because of it and I need all the help up them stairs I can get

 take Care, chuck

[7Pines]

I do agree that the health and human svcs. budget should NEVER be cut.  Our agency has had to endure 3 straight years of cuts.  My agency works with adults and high schoolers w/ mental retardation and related conditions, mental illness and emotional/behavioral disorders.
Public moneys to assist this population (and long-term care facilities, etc.) shouldn't be cut...ever.
It's pretty easy to hitch up your belt and look down upon our social service/welfare systems with disdain, but bring a life w/ special needs into this world, become a part of the social svc./welfare system, then see how you look at things. :o
Or, like Bufflehead suggests, spend a bit of time in a nursing home (long-term care).  I know LPNs and nursing assistants that are supposed to look after as many as 30 residents on their shift.  When the hallways are filled with blinking call lights outside of rooms and there're only a couple of NAs to respond, well...
Dan

[jigglestick]

you guys may have some of this all wrong.
these nursing homes for the most part are not publicly funded agencies. they are for the most part privately run entities. they are for proffit buisinesses. they have stock holders and board members.
get the picture?
that is where the trouble with them comes in. they are trying to gain the most proffit as most any buisiness will.
they charge X amount of dollars for each bed and they get it, one way or another, be it personal finances, or state aid, which will step in after the siblings and their attourneys have hidden all but meager financial assets. think it doesn't happen? give me a break, you too will do it. if it comes down to having an inheritance, or blowing it on long term care, when the state will step in once the assets are gone?
short handed shifts are a means to limit out-flowing dollars. dont blame the hand-it-out programs for being understaffed.
my wife has worked at three such facilities and still works at a nursing home in northern Itasca county. when they get audited by the state and are found to have been understaffed, they get reprimanded.
I can tell you that the Itasca County Nursing Home is by far the worst run facility in this county. this is a county run facility!!
the way this place is run, I wouldnt put my dog in there.
the county of Itasca should be embarrased to have such a facility.
if this happens to be the facility you are talking about bufflehead, blame it on the facility, not funding programs.
reshuffle your arguments and start over.

[Bufflehead]

Most are Government subsidized and when that subsidizing is cut. The company has to cut services to survive and be profitable.

 Wouldn't you do all you could to keep the house or farm your mother or father built/(grandparents homesteaded)?

 You would be a fool not too

 Is it right that everything your mother or father worked for their entire life should be taken from them for doctor bills or LTC? leaving NOTHING to pass on to you or your siblings? Thats right, no more hunting the place you grew up on, it was sold to someone from outside the area for a song. They will hunt it now and call it home

 I guess you would rather the money was spent over in the Big Sand Box pissing it away into the wind.

 Well, I differ in the spending habits of our tax dollars. I would like to see it spent right here on people I know, not on some Camel Jockies healthcare in a country that hates our guts!!!! 

[labs4me]

IIt's pretty easy to hitch up your belt and look down upon our social service/welfare systems with disdain, but bring a life w/ special needs into this world, become a part of the social svc./welfare system, then see how you look at things. :o

I think I'm qualified to answer that.   I have a severly mentally and physically disabled son that I brought into this world... I still think a lot of the system is a mess.  The people we deal with at school are great, but I just think the whole system is a pregnant elephant.  We will never put our son in a home and believe me he's more than qualified to be in one....


Dave good post... you explained it better than I could ever try to.

[jigglestick]

Most are Government subsidized and when that subsidizing is cut. The company has to cut services to survive and be profitable.

 Wouldn't you do all you could to keep the house or farm your mother or father built/(grandparents homesteaded)?

 You would be a fool not too

 Is it right that everything your mother or father worked for their entire life should be taken from them for doctor bills or LTC? leaving NOTHING to pass on to you or your siblings? Thats right, no more hunting the place you grew up on, it was sold to someone from outside the area for a song. They will hunt it now and call it home

 I guess you would rather the money was spent over in the Big Sand Box pissing it away into the wind.

 Well, I differ in the spending habits of our tax dollars. I would like to see it spent right here on people I know, not on some Camel Jockies healthcare in a country that hates our guts!!!! 

I can't believe you just said all that right here in public  ???

[Bufflehead]

 ::) ::) ::)

[WoodChuck]

 :) CONGRATULATIONS TO LABS4ME!
     as a father with a special child ,i applaud you and your faithfull HONOR to your child with acknowledging his existence and not hideing it as people will do.  :) :)

                            woodchuck

[labs4me]

Thanks Woodchuck...

He really is a special kid.  The absolute 'apple' of my wife's eye.  But he is very time consuming and at times overwhelming... but we do what we do out of love and commitment, as I'm sure many others would do.  We have 3 other children that we love dearly, but there is always something about the the innocence of special needs kids that warms the heart...

Good Luck!

Ken

[Bufflehead]

 Labs4me, I also want to commend you and your wife. Your son is truly lucky to have folks like you both.

 

[labs4me]

Family NOT govt...

I can type for hours, but to get my point across these video clips do it more eloquently.  Do you believe in karma?  My sister sent me these today and has zero idea that this discussion is taking place...

oh yeah, grab some kleenex!




Good Luck!

Ken

[JohnWester]

amazing guy! both of them.

[WoodChuck]

  " what is a liberal" thats easy a republican on the rebound !!!!! 

[Fishahollik]

Im' just gonna say this.

Stop taxing the she-it out of me to take care of "me".

[UncleDave]

I think we all know what a true liberal is.  I am just happy to find a site that includes a ton of names I recognize from elsehwere.  I have finally wised up and this will be my site assuming the folks running this site appreciate their loyal members.  Just sayin'.  The last site I was on was with an "owner" who was OFT absent and when asked why, became a 12 spazz.  LSF might be the site.  Or maybe not.  Either way, this site is more user frindly and hopefully friendly.

[jigglestick]

Welcome uncledave!
I am assuming this is the same uncle dave I met up at red with leaky?

I am not sure we are familiar with OFT or what 12 spazz is, but just keep things on the lighter side here and dont worry about other sites that jack their numbers up in order to impress viewers.
we are small but growing and we simply do not care what goes on in the outside world as far as other websites are concerned.

enjoy your visits here and keep political conversation to outdoor topics.
just be nice.

thanks for dropping in :)