How can we grow bigger bucks???

[HUNTER2]

How much do you spend on deer hunting GO BIG RED? Then tell me how much hamburger you can buy for that same amount. I'm guessing you can buy more hamburger then how much meat you would get out of a button buck. Seem's to me turkey,chicken and pork might even be cheaper.

[nic53]

I personally have hunted the land that the pictures MNO posted and its only 80 acres with neighbors that shoot everything they see. The landowners Have done everything from planting trees and food plots and even dug little ponds for water sources to make the deer not have the need to go elsewhere. And it sounds like it is expensive but it really is not just need to put the time in to make a difference. The work they have done has really paid off cuz i have hunted this land before they put in all the hard work and after and it is amazing the difference it has made! "If you build it they will come"

[beeker]

naturalistmn that was an interesting read.

there is allot of interesting data out there for the midwest. if work didn't get in the way I could toss it together as a comparison just for kicks.

trail cameras was what finally got my group to stop shooting all the little bucks and nubbins. once they had proof that big deer were around they didn't want to shoot the first one they saw

[nontypicalhunter]

MNO... I, myself pass on smaller deer. I am fortunate enough to have 600 acres of land that I manage and hunt. BUT, when I let people hunt here I ASK them to let the fawns and spikes pass. I don't tell them NOT to shoot something. I have the food plots, mineral licks, off limits areas for sanctuaries. I do EVERYTHING possible, bust my back to keep the big deer around. I had 3 160 class bucks on my hit list this year. goa; was to get 1 on the wall. Guess what, 2 were shot outside of my property and as far as I know the 3rd wasn't taken. You can not control what people do and you should never TELL a person what they can and can not shoot. All that will do is drive them away from hunting. When kids come out to hunt they can shoot whatever deer they want. I want them to have an enjoyable experiance and like ALL of us hope they take up good management ethics so to say.

We are all hunters and all of us should not look down on ANYONE for whatever animal the decide to shoot as long as it was take legal.

[FireRanger]

Passionate topic for many....we all have our own beliefs/values/ideals about it. I, personally will not pass on many deer. I have never hunted after bigger animals. Have always been happy with providing a meal for the table and food for the freezer. Just the way I was raised and what I think is right. Not interested in the mine is bigger then yours. Many of us will have to agree to disagree I guess. I have two little ones of my own that I am introducing to the outdoors as well. They are being taught the same way I was. As said previously, we are all hunters, some just have different views on the end game.

[dakids]

It is not a matter of meat vs. trophy.   It's about better management.   Implementing QDM doesn't mean your freezers will be empty.   Like our children, young deer are the future of deer hunting.   Shooting imature animals year after year is bad practice.   We are not teaching our children to keep small fish are we?   I sure hope not.   With QDM in place the quality of hunting is greatly increased.   Simply put, it's a proven fact.

We are teaching our kids to keep small fish.  SLOT LIMITS  That argument doesn't fly.
I prefer the fawns meat over all other meat and so do my kids.  Don't get my wrong I would prefer to shoot a big buck.  I have let small bucks walk because I was holding out for the bigger bucks early in the season but if those bucks would have walked in front of me the last hour of the season they would have been shot.  In the end it is up to every hunter.  What is right for me might not be right for them.  There are a lot of big bucks in this state that live on public land and it is up to the hunter to get them.  If you don't like what your neighbors shoot you are fighting an uphill battle.  If you hunt public land you are going to have to work harder and hunt where other people can't or won't go.

In the end I don't like big brother telling me what I can and can't kill.

[Go Big Red!]

How much do you spend on deer hunting GO BIG RED? Then tell me how much hamburger you can buy for that same amount. I'm guessing you can buy more hamburger then how much meat you would get out of a button buck. Seem's to me turkey,chicken and pork might even be cheaper.

I don' t feel a public forum is a place to discuss personal finances.  And I'm sure there are cheaper meals out there.

[deadeye]

This is exactaly what makes hunters such a great group.  We all have our idea of what the "perfect" scenaro would be.  I don't have a the magic "bullet" that would solve the delima for everyone.  Most hunters are pretty set in their ways and tend to go to areas and hunt with others that share simular views.  Any change that adversly affects the way a group of hunters traditionally hunted, will bring cries of foul.  For me, I am currently enjoying the best deer hunting I have experienced over the past 35 years.  Not that I didn't have many great times in the past, but each of the past 10 years were better than the previous one.        

[naturalistmn]

Mine is bigger than yours?   This is the farthest thing from a true outdoorsmans thoughts.   Shooting a mature animal is a lifetime accomplishment.   The amount of work and mental toughness that goes into it is the true reward itself.   The sharing of stories and photographs are the celebration of hard work being rewarded, not to say I did better than you.   It is an accomplishment that will last a lifetime, and long after.

That arguement wont fly?   Slot limits?   The only common game fish that have state wide slot limits are walleye and muskie.   I've heard so many reports of people pounding big bluegill only to see that they are 5 and 6 inchers.   When was the last time you caught a limit of 9 inch plus bluegill.   Bluegill are an abundent species so it shouldn't be that hard, right?   Justifications only cover the root cause.   And as for slot limits, why do you think they were put into force?   The law had to step in and tell us what we can and can't keep to better manage that particular species.   Those laws were put in to protect certain generations of fish.   If those laws were not in place the fish that should not be kept would be.   This is good management to protect the species and give it a future.   What is the difference with animals?

Deadeye, what do you feel is the reason for the recent improvement in your hunting quality over the past 10 years?   I am curious to hear your theory on that.

[nic53]

I would have to say one reason I trophy hunt is because i just enjoy being out in the woods hunting. If I was about putting food on the table my hunting season would be over about 5 minutes into the season what fun would that be? If its your goal to put food on the table then hey shoot a doe and leave the bucks go for hunters who want that trophy.. That was easy right both party's get what they want? not that easy i know..

[kenhuntin]

It does not take long to get larger bucks by passing small ones up. Deer if anyone hasn't noticed do not need much help with habitat. They can thrive in the suburbs.
 What I think is a crime are the Trophy hunters that will not eat any deer meat. Those guys that will cut off antlers and leave a carcass in the bush have the old I'm the best because I got a bigger one syndrome.
 Hunter maturity factors in with the type of deer they harvest. New young hunters usually want to harvest any deer by any means. As the years go by they usually get more selective. Some switch to bow hunting for a bigger challenge. Time tested hunters usually yearn for and will only harvest a trophy male deer as opposed to smaller buck.

[BiggA]

Everyone keeps throwing around the word "trophy". A trophy truly can be any animal taken if that is what one believes. Sure someday I will harvest a mature buck with big antlers to hang on the wall but after that I will continue to shoot younger deer whether they be buck or doe because that venison from that old deer is chewy and in my opinion just not very tasty. We all have our beliefs and trying to force anyone to believe yours is wrong.

[deadeye]

naturalistmn,
I am extreamly lucky to be able to hunt on my own property.  This allowed me (and others) to manage the land in what we feel is the best interest of the wild game living there.  I bought the first piece 18 years ago and have added more acreage since then.  My brother in law and some friends have purchased ajacent property.  The property consists of woods, swamps (wet and dry) and fields.  We have planted trees, cut trees (released desireable trees) , planted food plots (mostly just clover) made trails, and don't hunt some areas.  The area (221) is currently intensive harvest which really helps us manage the deer.  About six years ago we (and a couple neighbors) decided to try and get more mature bucks.  Ok, I guess that puts us in the "trophey" catagory.  However, we have no documented rules and no penalties for shooting small bucks. Kids and old hunters can shoot what they want (last year one guys son shot his first deer, it was a 6 point and we all celebrated).  Basically we say just shoot 8 point or better and no basket bucks.  This should make all bucks shot at least 2.5 years old.  Also, you can shoot as many does as you want so any one who want venison has ample opportunity to do so.  (I didn't shoot a buck last year but I did shoot several does).  I am not advocating the state pass the APR laws.  As a matter of fact, I perfer they do not because of the flexibility we now have.  We have made mistakes over the years (a doe that was shot suddenly sprouts a single 4 inch tine) but we simply tag it as a buck and no big deal.  Again, I realize we can do this because it's private property which gives us a lot more control (within legal limits) over the wild game population.    

[dakids]

naturalistmn,  I do agree that if you pass on the little bucks there will be more bigger bucks.  How do you propose making people pass up the little ones?

Last fall I caught a limit of 9-11 inch gills.  Not a single other person on the lake. There are many things that go into being able to get big fish and deer.  If the area gets to much fishing or hunting preasure there is NO chance at getting a lot of big ones.  Walleyes are stocked in a lot of lakes they have no chanse of getting big yet the gov. dumps buckets of money into stocking these lakes.

[dakids]

I have been lucky enough to be invited to the deer mecca that deadeye owns.  It is a beautiful piece of land.  I don't know how many acres it is but it is large and deadeye is one heck of a great guy. Thanks again deadeye for the mushroom hunting party.  As I was looking for sheds last weekend I found a new spot that looks to have a bumper crop of the taste fungi.

[Outdoors Junkie]

What a great topic!  Where else but MNO can we all share such honest opinions and emotion but not get into a huge argument with other fellow hunters?  It is great that we can agree to disagree on emotional topics like this one!  

I have enjoyed reading through this entire thread.  I am no expert hunter, but I will share my thoughts based off my experience.  

I come from a family that has a long tradition of harvesting whatever we can legally harvest.  My first deer was a basket 6 ptr.  It took me three years of hunting before I was lucky enough to get that opportunity.  If I am really honest with all of you, I have to admit that I have harvested a few fawns over the years to go along with several doe and small bucks.  I do have three "trophy" bucks that I have hanging on the wall.  I hunt near URL and it is pure wilderness up there.  We have several hunters that go multiple years between seeing deer from a stand.  We have seen timberwolves, moose, bobcats, lynx, wolverines, black bear, and many other wonderful creatures from our stands over the years.  Deer hunting is much more than shooting a big buck.  It is about being out in and enjoying nature.  It is huge tradition that my family and friends look forward to each year!  I am always sad when it is time to go home.  We have a cabin (our hunting camp) and we sit around at night playing card and telling stories.  Our hunting gang is made up of my grandma, dad, aunt, uncle, sister, cousins, friends, and now my sons.  My grandpa started up this tradition with him and a few buddies back in the 1940’s.  We have been coming back every year since.  My grandpa passed away twelve years ago in his favorite stand, doing what he loved to do (deer hunting).  This was after he had a rough couple years (he had a couple strokes and was crippled up but still made it out to the woods).  He could only carry a pistol.  Although he did not get anything, I can honestly say I would trade in my three “trophy bucks” to go back in time and give him an opportunity to shoot at any deer (even a fawn).

My oldest son started hunting with me three years ago and my younger boy started this year.  I believe these young hunters should be allowed to harvest any deer they legally carry a license to harvest.  That is how we attract more kids to this awesome experience!  My oldest son harvested his first deer this year (a spike).  This was his third year hunting and only the second deer he had seen from a stand.  A month later he harvested his second deer (a very nice doe).  I was sitting right by him and would not trade these memories in for anything.  It is different for me now.  I don’t even care if I get a deer.  I just want my kids to have an opportunity at harvesting a deer.  

I moved to SD in 2006.  I still make it to our deer camp in MN each fall.  My sons and I also deer hunt in SD.  The two deer my son harvested this year were both in SD.  The deer herd is managed much differently here in SD than in MN.  When you buy a license here it is doe only.  There is a drawing for the opportunity to hunt a buck.  Is it better?  I do see a lot more big bucks here than in MN!  So if you are after bigger more mature bucks, I would agree that QDM works.

[naturalistmn]

Deadeye,
My hat goes off to you.   You own property and took action upon yourself to improve wildlife habitat.   This is truly what needs to happen.   Any, and I mean any, improvement is much appriecatied.   You do such things because of your passions for our lands and the wildlife that inhabits them.   When I say "It has to start somewhere and anywhere," this is exactly what I'm talking about.   I'm not suggesting everyone to pass everything unless it's a booner, just to help with proper management of a particular species.   You have taken the motivation in doing so and I genuinely thank you for that.

Dakids,
9-11 inch Gills!!!   Those are giant!!!   Good for you for finding such a place.   Strangely enough, bluegill are one of my favorite fish, and most delicious.   Where I'm from, lakes are fished hard and the generations have a hard time keeping up with what is taken.   I would love to see pics of those fish, if you have any.   Those are true bluegills!

OutdoorsJunkie,
First off I want to say your Grandfather sounds like one hell of a man.   My Grandfather has been like a father to me and I am sorry for your loss.   He has kept our heritage alive and has my greatest respects.   States, due to a vast variety of reasons, need different regulations within its lands.   The northern protion of our state needs different regulations than the southern part.   Antler point restrictions don't need to be state wide.   Just in areas that can support them.   Most states that have Antler point restrictions are not state wide.   There is no shame in killing a fawn either.   They are legal antlerless deer.   I don't want to come across as someone who has shot mature bucks my whole life.   I have shot my share of small bucks, believe me.   I got to the point when I was younger that I wanted to better myself.   I was shooting deer, yes, but is was the same little buck year after year.   I knew there had to be more to it.   I educated my self through many means and couldn't believe what I had been missing out on.   It's a whole different world out there for me now.   I wish I had done this a long time ago, because if I had I could only imagine where I'd be now.   I'm not asking for instant results, instead, just some improvements.   A little goes a long ways.   I am also happy to hear about your children, keep it up dad.   It is really interesting to see first hand how different management practices affect a herd.   You are seeing it with your own eyes.   Minnesota officals along with hunters need to adopt some of these practices to ensure a better quality outdoor experience.

I want to thank everyone for such great posts.   I couldn't agree more that we all share our views and remain tackful and respectful.   I appriecate that very much.   This is the first step in preserving our habitat and wildlife.   For everyone who has taken it upon yourselves to improve and manage properties to heighten wildlife quality, I thank you for all I'm worth.  

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