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Author Topic: re-loading vs. store bought  (Read 12754 times)

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Offline perch destroyer

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Last year with store bought prices around $3.00 a box on trap loads, didn`t think it was worth the time to re-load my own. When I did re-load a couple years ago, figured I had about $2.75 a box into it, not figuring my time.
 Haven`t done any pricing yet on supplies, but was wondering if prices have risen this year on supplies?
 
Behold The Fisherman. He riseth up early in the morning and disturbeth the whole household. Mighty are his preparations!
 He goeth forth full of hope, and when the day is spent--- He returneth smelling of strong drink and the truth is not in him!

Offline DaveO

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I am trying to get a reloading cost calculator on the site here. Its just going to take a little more time is all,

I have found that the amount of shells I shoot in one summer I just don't have the time to reload.

if I'm not mistaken shot is close to $14.00 a bag and depending on where yea buy it can be more.

Last year I shot about a half of pallet of STS, I love em but think I'm going down to the Top guns this year
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Offline Benny

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Cabela's has a case of Federals for $24.99 after a mail in rebate.
Only one case per house hold though, but Grandparrents and other family members who don't buy this ammo can get the rebates for you :)

Benny
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"

Offline DaveO

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Thats a great deal,,,Thanks Benny
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Offline GRIZ

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I reload my own shells and unless a person gets a real deal on components you won't save a whole lot of $$ reloading trap shot. Where you will save is on reloading heavy field loads, steel and specialty loads. You will also be able to make loads that are not for sale comercially but must add don't just start throwing things together without doing some research. A change of one single component can cause a dangerous situation.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline GRIZ

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A couple more places you can save when reloading is on the 410 bore and the 28 ga.

P.S. jigglestick I put a bid in on a reloader for 410 don't know if I'll get it? But don't tell scroungie. ;)

Daveo if ya have any of them STS empties I'd be glad to trade a gas can for them.
« Last Edit: April 04/02/06, 09:21:11 AM by GRIZ »
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline DaveO

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How many yea need?

well is that a empty gas can or a full one?,,,lmao
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Offline DaveO

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well shells went up again....so out came the reloader.

Ive been shooting my reloads again for about 2 weeks..WOW how i miss a quality shell in my gun again them soot balls are soooo nice to see.

I plugged in all of the component cost and I'm saving just under $13.00 a flat ...now that can add up fast.
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Offline Benny

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Reloading can also give you a better shell, one can beef up the velocity or the shot charge to get the pattern they want.

Where as a store bought round will not be as consistant or may not have the velocity you want.

I buy Fed Top Guns now only because I get them cheap.

But if I loose my connection then I will reload again, I still like to load a few to remind my self how fast a hand load can get vs the factory rounds.

You can also down load rounds if your going to shoot a long ternament and don't want to pound your shoulder all day.

I down loaded some to the point they were barly able to blow the bolt back on my semi.

Didn't hit to well either as the velocity was so low.

Benny
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"

Offline GRIZ

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My trap loads I do down load prolly a bit too much as half the time the wont kick out of an auto.

Say benny just curious how fast have you gotten a steel load to go? I have a load that I like for waterfowl and according to my buddys chrono is nearly 2200 fps
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline jigglestick

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Griz, my guess with that is you are pushing the pressure limmts that most barrels will withstand at 2200fps  :o
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Offline DaveO

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A New Look At 1-Ounce 12-Gauge Loads

I
t has been fully five years since we last looked at 1-ounce 12-gauge loads. April 2001 specifically. The purpose ot such loads is still the same, of course, but the world of components has changed. Several new powders are now available, as well as some new wads. We?ve also seen changes in the hulls themselves, with Winchester changing the manner in which their famed AA compression-formed (now three-piece) hulls are made. Federal changed its marvelous Cold Medal Plastic hulls, too, going from a ribbed surface to smooth, at least in some gauges.
When we discussed the loads back in 2001 we examined the virtues, namely. a modest practice load and a tine one for showing the ropes to beginners without subjecting them to unnecessary noise and recoil. Such loads are certainly also appropriate for some bird hunting, anywhere a 1-ounce 20-gauge load would be appropriate, in fact. And more than a few of us use them in competition, in spite of the overwhelming popularity of the traditional 1 ?P-ounce load. It still contains more shot than modern Olympic loads of 24 grams and will get us all the birds ? feathered or clay ? we deserve.
As a general rule, 1-ounce loads run from a modest 1.125 t.p.s. to a more-robust 1,290 t.p.s., although with some hulls, notably the Federal Cold Medal, velocities may reach a full 1,400 f.p.s.
A nice load to frame our picture of the 1 -ouncer is this one. Modest in velocity. it?s good for practice, hand-thrown clays, introductory shooting and some hunting. Shot sizes 8, 31/. and 9 are most at home here. The 8s will carry a full 1.0 foot/pound of energy to 40 yards: the others, not quite so far.
Red Dot, it is still a fine choice for the cost-conscious.
One thing, perhaps not as well-publicized as it should be, is Promo is more dense than Red Dot and, therefore. not a volume-for-volume replacement. Allianf recommends choosing a hushing two sizes smaller than used for Red Dot to start, then carefully weighing the Promo powder charge thrown to ensure the desired weight. In their free annual ReIoaders Guide. Alliant lists separate Promo load data for this reason- Here?s a popular Promo target load.

Winchester 12-gauge 2%? AA-type hull
Winchester W209 primer
Winchester WAA1 2SL wad
1 ounce lead shot
13.0   grains Alliant Promo
Velocity:   1.200 fps.
Pressure:   unknown
(Red Dot is 10.200 p.sI.)
Source:   A/Pant Reloaders Guide, 2005

Here, we can use a variety of substitute wads Alliant lists the same load with the Claybuster 1100-12 and Purple PC wads. As a substitute for the WAA12SL. we also find we can use the Green Duster DownRange XL-] and Jammer XL-1 (see ?Know Your Wads.? February 2006). This latter wad is an eight-petal design that may allow for a quicker release and a few more pellets in the annular ring.
Another relatively new Alliant powder is C Coverage of this powder in recent issues has highlighted its efficiency and stability, both in terms of temperature and humidity (?Shotshell Powder Page,? November 2003 and Alliant?s e? Powder? January 2005). Here?s a good
representative example

Remington 12-gauge 2 /2? STS hull
Remington 209P primer
Remington TCT12 wad
1 ounce lead shot
16.9   grains Alliant e
Velocity:   1,200 f.p.s
Pressure:   3.550 p.s.].
Source:   A/I/ant Reloaders Guide. 2005

That is also a versatile load, with 16.0 grains dropping us to 1.150 f.p.s.. 180 grains raising velocity to 1,250 t.p.s. and 19.0 taking us to 1,290 f.p.s., with the higher velocity perhaps more appropriate for the field.
Another new Al[iant powder is Is recently released Clay Dot (Shotshell Powder Page,? March 2006). Much like Promo, Clay Dot is intended to attract attention due to its market price. It will be sold in 8-pound containers only. although at its introduction at the 2005 Grand American it was put up in 1-pound containers and given to purchasers of an Alliant t-shirt
Clay Dot should stand out for a couple other reasons. First, it is a low-cost alternative, not to another Alliant powder hut to Hodgdon?s Clays. Second, it is intended to be both a weight-for-weight and volume-for-volume replacement for Clays. In my own tests. I noted my lot ot Clay Dot was a bit heavier than the Clays I had on hand. speculating the Clays, having been on hand for some time. may have lost some of its moisture in the dry climate where I live. Regardless. using the same bushing for Clay Dot should be perfectly safe, and the results may well be indistinguishable from those experienced with Clays. For load data, you should be able to simply

Winchester 12-gauge 2/i? A.A-type hull
Winchester W2D9 primer
Winchester WAA12L wad
1 ounce lead shot
16.5   grains Hodgdon Red Dot
Velocity:   1,150 f.p.s.
Pressure:   8,000 psi.
Source: A/I/ant Re/na dens Guide, 2005

Competitors, and perhaps others, will have become aware of Alliants Promo powder (see Shotshell Powder Page,?~ June 2001). It is a weight-for-weight replacement for Red Dot. Sold only in 8-pound containers, it is intended to be a lower-cost alternative to the very popular target powder. My own tests have determined Promo?s burning rate is virtually identical to that of Red Dot. Not quite as clean-burning as the recently improved
.
use any published Clays data and substitute Clay Dot, according to Alliant. Here?s a sample load.

Remington 12-gauge 21? STS hull
CCI 209 primer
Purple PC wad
1 ounce lead shot
18.3   grains Alliant Clay Dot (Clays)
Velocity:   1,180 f.p.s.
Pressure:   7,100 up.
Source:   Hodgdon Basic Reloader ManuaL 2005

That is. of course, a Clays load taken from the Hodgdon manual, and I have substituted Clay Dot. It is also quite versatile, in that 17.1 grains will drop velocity to 1.125 f.p.s. and 19.5 grains will raise the speed to 1,235 t.p.s. For field or handicap use, 20.7 grains wi/I push the speed to a full 1.290 f.p.s.
Another relatively new powder not available at the time of our earlier visit to 1-ounce loads is Ramshots Competition (June 2002 ?Shotshehl Powder PageD. This is part ot Western Powders? Ramshot line and is manufactured in the United States tor them by St. Marks Powder, formerly Primex. and before that. the powder component ot Winchester Ammunition. It is suitable for i~t. 1 and 1 ?1-ounce loads in the 12 gauge. Initially, it was offered only in 2-pound containers. which discouraged some first-time buyers. It is now available. I think, in 1-pound cans as well. Anyway, it is a fine target powder. Here?s an example.

Remington 12-gauge 2?t? STS hull
Winchester W209 primer
Winchester WAA12SL wad
1 ounce lead shot
17.5   grains Ramshot Competition
Velocity:   1,180 t.p.s.
Pressure:   8.200 psi.
Source:   Ramshot Powder Load Guide. Edition ill

There is a good deal of flexibility here, with the handloader able to increase the powder charge to 19.0 grains for 1.235 f.p.s. or 20.5 grains br 1,290 f.p.s. Because it uses the WAA12SL wad, we can substitute a number of others, as we did in the second reload, such as Green Duster. DownRange XE-i or Jammer XL-].
Not only are 1 -ounce loads as useful and popular as ever, there are now even more ways to assemble them. Continue
to enjoy!   SS
cAuTiON: Read iii enotice and disclaimer or page 5 ci this magazine. Always consuitc omprehensive reference manuais and bulletins for detaiis of proper training. reguiirements, and procedures, techniques and sate~ precautions before attem pling any similar activity.

NOTE:   Pressures are often listed as ?psi.? or
.saiues. You may find different pressures iisted for the same load in different handtoading manuals. They are nor the same, in generai, psi. vaiues wiii be about t,~ units higher Than I.u.p. values. This appiies to head-shot ioads ooty. There are off en considerable differences between the psi. and up. vaiues with steei-shtoi toads. Aiso remember them can be differences in how loads act in various lest guns and equipment that can aiso affect these readings and the vaiues pubiished.

.
Shut up and Shoot

Offline jigglestick

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take a kid hunting and fishing!!

THWACK KILLS!!

Offline Dr.Bob

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Offline DaveO

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[
Say benny just curious how fast have you gotten a steel load to go? I have a load that I like for waterfowl and according to my buddys chrono is nearly 2200 fps
Quote

Say Griz what powder are yea useing with what hull and wad?,,,,,,just kinda wondering is all what book did yea find all the specs in?
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Offline GRIZ

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I'd have to find the book agian. It was for steel loads.

I use 800X can't remember how much something like 44-46 grains, Sam I wads and old wagner  hulls and I believe only 7/8 oz shot. I did change a few things from the book but sent them to missouri to get pressure tested and it came back OK. The listed load says only between 1700-1800 fps so it could be my buddies chrono isn't accurate.

They work great for thier intended purpose
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
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Offline Benny

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Griz,I have not reloaded steel since the early 90's, but back then I was using federal high base hulls with red dot and winchester wads with 1-1/4 oz shot.
We were getting an estimated velocity of 1500fps .

We set up two chrono's in line and took an average between them.

This next sentence will go in hand with your other thread.
The shot string is stretched out so you can't get an accurate reading with just one chronograph, you have to have two and do an average or send the load to one of the manufacture test facilities to have them test it for you.

They use a system of cameras set up on a timed coarse to get an accurate FPS reading.

As for chamber pressure, it was again an estimate as to the actual PSI but we figured around 15,00PSI.

I remember that they had a hell of a bark, most people thought we were using 10 gages.

I have seen some printing some where that the threshold for steel is in the area of 2000FPS before they will start to deform or "blow out" the pattern.

I seen the "blow out" effect with trap loads once.
My cousin was reloading some very high velocity rounds and doing a pattern test with each step in the recipe till he started loosing his pattern.

He got a win AA with win AA wad and 700X with a 1-1/8? load to 1900FPS before the pattern literally started blowing out all over the target board.

Even the wad was deformed so bad you had a hard time making out it was a AA wad.

Benny
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Offline GRIZ

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Never thought of the shot string throwing off a chrono but it makes sense. Can see where 2 might make for a more accurate reading. We only had one chrono.

Another thing that makes a difference in velocity is barrel length. The load I am refering to is a slower burning powder and even with my long barrel it's still got a big muzzle flash. With a faster powder you could get by with a shorter barrel but I'm certain it would excede the pressure limits.

When I sent my load to get tested I recieved back a graph that showed 2 pressure spikes where as most loads will only have one. That is what makes me wonder if this load should be shot out of a barrel say another 6 inches longer. Boy I'm going to quit before I get typers cramp as this could be a whole nother topic itself.
« Last Edit: August 08/27/06, 06:12:14 AM by GRIZ »
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline GRIZ

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I have been thinking of going to hevi-shot for waterfowling. After doing some research locally and on the net, I've found the price of the shot itself can vary greatly.

Locally I've found it anywhere from $88 to $95 for a 7 lb bag. At that price I would save over $10 dollars for 25 shells vs. store bought shells. Using $94 doolars a bag for a figure.

On the net I've found prices anywhere from $125 to $150 per 7 lb. bag. So at a price of $125 it would actually cost me $3 dollars more for 25 shells than store bought shells.

This figuring was done for my 10 GA. If I had figured for my 12 GA the prices would have been a bit cheaper as the amount of shot and powder would not be nearly as much.

Considering the price of factory shells of hevi-shot shells for 10 ga and 12 ga are the same a person would prolly save more reloading for the 12 ga than the 10.

What I am thinking and hope it isn't the case is the prices on the net are the newer prices. The places that have it locally are older shot b4 the price of metals and fuel went higher. I may have to do some searching to find out the answer.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson