Is a crossbow truely archery hunting?

[HUNTER2]

If I remember right, if you shoot a big buck with a crossbow, it can't be in the record book with bows. So how can it be classified as a bow when you can't get in the record book with it?

[The General]

If I remember right, if you shoot a big buck with a crossbow, it can't be in the record book with bows. So how can it be classified as a bow when you can't get in the record book with it?

I think you are right, but notice letter B.  In the state of MN you have to be physically handicapped to shoot a crossbow so would that mean you would qualify?  Also take a look at D-4.  I'm guessing most of you are going to have that asterisk by your name. 

The Pope and Young Club has established the following standard definitions of bowhunting equipment.

I. Hunting Bow

A. A hunting bow for big game shall be a longbow, flat bow, recurve bow, compound bow or any combination of these designs meeting the following requirements and restrictions:

    1. A device for launching an arrow, which derives its propulsive energy solely from the bending and recovery of two limbs.
    2. The bow must be hand drawn by a single and direct, uninterrupted pulling action of the shooter. The bowstring must be moved from brace height to the full draw position by the muscle power of the shooter’s body. The energy used to propel the arrow shall not be derived from any other source such as hydraulic, pneumatic, mechanical or similar devices. These limitations shall not exclude the mechanical leverage advantage provided by eccentric wheels or cams so long as the available energy stored in the bent limbs of the bow is the sole result of a single, continuous, and direct pulling effort by the shooter.
    3. The bow must be hand-held. One hand shall hold the bow and the other hand draw the bowstring. The bowstring must be moved and/or held at all points in the draw cycle entirely by the muscle power of the shooter until release. The bowstring must be released as a direct and conscious action of the shooter’s either relaxing the tension of the fingers or triggering the release action of a hand-held release aid.
    4. The bow shall be no shorter than 30 inches.

B. Exceptions: Physically handicapped bowhunters shall be excepted from the requirements of holding or shooting the bow with their hands.

C. Exclusions:

    1. The following shall not be considered a hunting bow:

        a) A crossbow.
        b) Any device with a gun-type stock or incorporating any device or mechanism that holds the bowstring at partial or full draw without the shooter’s muscle power.
        c) Electronic or battery-powered devices shall not be attached to a hunting bow.
        d) No portion of the bow’s riser (handle) or any track, trough, channel or other device that attaches directly to the bow’s riser shall contact, support, and/or guide the arrow from a point rearward of the bow’s brace height.

D. Let-Off for Compound Bows:

    1. Definition of let-off: That characteristic of a bow that results in a reduction of the force necessary to increase the draw length after the highest level of draw force has been reached. This is characteristic generally associated with, but not restricted to, compound bows.
    2. The maximum let-off on a compound bow shall be measured at a point in the draw cycle after the peak draw weight has been attained. It shall be measured near the end of the draw cycle where the minimum holding force is reached. This point in the draw cycle on a compound bow is known as "the bottom of the valley."
    3. Determination of the percent of let-off: The values of the peak draw force and the let-off force shall be used to calculate the percent of let-off. The peak force is the maximum force obtained during the draw cycle. The let-off force is the lowest force reached following the peak force during a single uninterrupted draw cycle. In all cases, both the highest and lowest force shall be read from a scale during a single and continual pull condition, without relaxation. This technique eliminates the introduction of hysteresis, which can distort the reading.
    % Let-off = 100 X [(Peak Draw Force) - (Minimum Holding Force)] / (Peak Draw Force)
    4. Effective January 1, 2004, animals taken with bows have nominal percent of let-off greater than 65 percent shall be listed with an asterisk (*) in the Records. It is recognized that variations in draw length and/or draw weight can affect the percent of let-off on compound bows. For these reasons minor variations in let-off are acceptable.

[redbull135]

  that perrty much sums it up I bow hunt and I think a crossbow is like a rifle you pull it up look thru a sight and pull the triger. my bow if I do not anchor in the same spot ever time my shot could be off by inches.

[The General]

IMO if you have to think about your anchor point every time before each shot you shouldn't be in the woods.  This should be done with practice and be automatic.   

[redbull135]

true. Im just saying the cross bows I have seen out have a nice red dot point and shoot

[The General]

true. Im just saying the cross bows I have seen out have a nice red dot point and shoot

My current bow is the same way inside 30 yards.  Pull up put the pin on the spot and shoot. 

[lentz]

that perrty much sums it up I bow hunt and I think a crossbow is like a rifle you pull it up look thru a sight and pull the triger. my bow if I do not anchor in the same spot ever time my shot could be off by inches.

i agree with you 110% but i think if u bow hunted before you were injured lets say a car crash then you should be able to hunt with a cross bow in archery season
but if u havent bought archery licince within the last 10 years you would have to count it as rifle

[Joe@deerhunters]

Crossbow article in field and stream this month by Scott Bestul.  He is conviced they are coming whether you like it or not.

Note the side bar that discusses a co2 push button operated cocking system.

Makes you wonder what a else R&D has enstore.

[deadeye]

I'm working on and have almost perfected the first ever fully automatic multi shot cross bow.  A small CO2 cartridge drives a piston back cocking the string as a new bolt is dropped into place.  The fastest I've shot so far is 5 bolts in just under 4 1/2 seconds.  Let's rock and roll.  Oh, crap, April fools was yesterday. 

[Go Big Red!]

Crossbow article in field and stream this month by Scott Bestul.  He is conviced they are coming whether you like it or not.

Note the side bar that discusses a co2 push button operated cocking system.

Makes you wonder what a else R&D has enstore.

I did read that article and it seems that crossbows are the new archery machine.  Seems like all the big bow manufacturers are moving to this platform.

[Geodopolis]

I've never shot a crossbow before, but have been bowhunting on and off for over 20 yrs..  Last summer I started having back problems, I was still able to shoot my bow in the fall, but it really got me thinking.  What if it hurt too much to pull and hold my bow when my back gets worse like I know it will.  I like the longer season that bowhunters are afforded. I like the quiet of the woods without the great hooraw of gun season.  I guess that if given a choice of 'bowhunting' with a crossbow or having to rifle hunt, I would choose the crossbow.  I could probably get a permit for one from my chiropractor this coming season but won't, simply because I don't have to yet.

[lentz]

i was watching a cross bow hunt and he shot a antelope at 96 yards it ran for like 30 yards and fell over

try and do a 96 yard shot with your bow at a target thats not moving good luck

[The General]

I saw two guys at the Anoka game fair last year with 20 to 30 mph cross winds last year hitting balloons at 100 yards with their bows.  They also had a stand there, but I forget what their name was.  With enough practice it can be done.  If I was going to do a spot and stalk hunt on Antelope my pins would be set at long ranges and I'd feel like I owe it to that animal to put the time in to be accurate at those distances........probably the same as the guy you're talking about did. 

On another note like I've said before I've been a bow hunter for a long time and I've always wondered why SOME bow hunters have the "holier than thou" attitude.  It's like if you don't hunt with a bow you aren't hunting. 

[The General]

Here is a little cut out from an article I was reading. 

 ACCURACY: The compound bow is more accurate due to the fact of a consistent anchor point. String loops have become a must for extreme accuracy. The arrow sits between the string loop knots and the release is held on the string loop in the same place every time making it very accurate. The crossbow has to be drawn and locked into a latch where the consistent string position can be compromised, allowing for the arrow to hit the left or to the right of the target. This is why Competitive Compound Bow Shooters score higher than Cross Bow Shooters in the same tournament.

Considering all of these issues, backed by published articles from industry experts, it is not hard to see that the only real advantage that the crossbow has is being able to draw and lock it at full draw until ready to be shot. When at full draw the crossbow shooter is STILL confronted with the challenge of letting down or disarming it.  It is recommended that it be shot to be disarmed.

[The General]

This guys says it about as well as anything I've read.

"John Cumming

December 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

I see the crossbow v. vertical bow debate as having two arguments against crossbows….First, the vertical bow people ( a small but vocal group who think they speak for all archers) see the deer archery season as their season…no one else need apply, but because this sounds too elitist and self serving they have come up with a whole set of additional reason to make it sound like their deserve exclusive access to the deer season. Examples include: xbows are like rifles, shoot like rifles, are too easy to learn, are pre- drawn, shoot too far, and will some how destroy the archery season. In one respect if the archery season was just traditional bows, ie, long bows, self bows or recurves the “traditionalist” would have a point, crossbows are such a substantial improvement over traditional archery equipment, the state could have sufficient interest in banning crossbows, but compound bows were legalized and since compounds and crossbows performance are almost equal there is no further reason to ban crossbows. Thats is a major statement so lets look at it more closely: Crossbows and compound bows are single shot weapons which are most effective at or less than forty yards. Both weapons can be shot accurately for greater distances but since game can “jump the string” and move before the arrow reaches them, it is probably not ethical to shoot game at longer distances with either the crossbow or compound bow. Is it easier to learn to shoot a crossbow….probably, but compound bow shooters also learn quickly and with in hours can shoot groups far superior to instinctive shooters with years of experience. The arguments the compound bow supporters used to push for compound bow use during the archery season are the same that crossbow supporters are saying today. We feel more people will get involved with archery, more archers will be retained and many people with full or limited disabilities can enjoy the archery season. Including crossbows in the archery season is only fair and long overdue."

[dakids]

That sounds about right general.

My 13 year old daughter shoots about as tight of grouping with her vertical bow as I can with my crossbow.
Her bow is also a lot quieter.

[lentz]

it was a country singer and he brought his 2 or 3 year old crossbow and the host suppressed him with a 2011 baronet crossbow and a few days later he made the shot