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Author Topic: Famous bear shot and killed by hunter  (Read 9685 times)

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Offline Lee Borgersen

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Offline ray634

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I notice there is not a media blitz to crucify the hunter. I expected to have all the peta people up in arms because a bear that had been conditioned to be around people was shot by a hunter, who broke no laws. I would like to send my congratulations to the hunter for a succesful hunt.
ray

Offline naturalistmn

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I notice there is not a media blitz to crucify the hunter. I expected to have all the peta people up in arms because a bear that had been conditioned to be around people was shot by a hunter, who broke no laws. I would like to send my congratulations to the hunter for a succesful hunt.
ray
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Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!

Offline Cody Gruchow

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people were crying about this one facebook. first it wasnt his fault he had no way in knowing it was the bear because she always managed to get her collar off. i say congrats to him. first off the info this bear was giving out couldnt of been very accurate because of the human interaction on a regular basis, especially sense they were feeding her as they changed the batterys in the collar.

Offline naturalistmn

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people were crying about this one facebook. first it wasnt his fault he had no way in knowing it was the bear because she always managed to get her collar off. i say congrats to him. first off the info this bear was giving out couldnt of been very accurate because of the human interaction on a regular basis, especially sense they were feeding her as they changed the batterys in the collar.
Again,  :Clap:
Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!

Offline HUNTER2

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I'm guessing the bear kept following the hunter triing to steal his sandwitch. So he had to shoot it or go hungrey. It didn't have the collar on so how would he know.
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Offline deadeye

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I don't mind "research" but somehow, researching tame bears seems to be counter productive.  Being able to feed and approach these "research" bears, negates most knowedge obtained.  Of note would be the quote "This is the only mother bear ever known to travel with two generations of it's cubs".  Well, duh, this is NOT a normal situation so any results are skewed.
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Offline naturalistmn

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I don't mind "research" but somehow, researching tame bears seems to be counter productive.  Being able to feed and approach these "research" bears, negates most knowedge obtained.  Of note would be the quote "This is the only mother bear ever known to travel with two generations of it's cubs".  Well, duh, this is NOT a normal situation so any results are skewed.
You guys are nailing it right on the head!   Nice thinkin' guys!    :Clap:
Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!

Offline beeker

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that rogers has a great scam going, gets paid to watch wildlife. then the liberaly weak minded jump on his bandwagon and he gets to sit back and violate the dnr regulations while the libtards fight his fight for him. he's like a cult leader to those fruits. just don't drink any cool aid if you end up on his compound. funny he just sits back "im afraid to loose my permits if I speak out". BS, he's letting all those libtards fight his fight for him and in the end he gets to sit back and get paid to do nothing except publish some tainted data from some trained bears.
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Offline naturalistmn

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that rogers has a great scam going, gets paid to watch wildlife. then the liberaly weak minded jump on his bandwagon and he gets to sit back and violate the dnr regulations while the libtards fight his fight for him. he's like a cult leader to those fruits. just don't drink any cool aid if you end up on his compound. funny he just sits back "im afraid to loose my permits if I speak out". BS, he's letting all those libtards fight his fight for him and in the end he gets to sit back and get paid to do nothing except publish some tainted data from some trained bears.
:rotflmao:   Libtards!!!!   Now that's good humor!   Very witty!    :rotflmao:
Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!

Offline NDGUY

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 :happy1:Great statements I also agree with you all...well said

Offline T.R. Michels

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Have you people really looked at ths issue?

What is your assessment of the relations between hunters and non hunter and anti hunters? Are they good or bad? Do you think better relations would help us hunters in the long run, so we woudl not have to fight so hard to get the right to hunt deer in urban areas where they are overpopulated and eating peoples vegetables, with lots of compalints? Or where geese need to be taken out because they are craping all over the place, but people do not want then shot by those mudreous hunters?

Is that the type of image you want the public to have of us?

If not, then you should realize that a hunter killing the most famous black bear of all time, really hurt hunter non hunter relations - here - in Minnesota .

could it have been avoided. Absolutely.

From interviews I have had I know that ths hunter purposely moved his hunting site into an aarea, where he had been told by Dr.Rogers that there were 3 radio collared research sows, with cubs, the yearling female Hope and two two year old males, possibly an adult male. And the hunter stated that he did not want to shoot Hope.

Let's think about this, he purposly moved his huntng site to an area where about 70 percent of the bears he might see, were eilther collared sows with cubs, or the yearling juvenile Hope. Why would you set up in such an area if you were a 15 year veteran bear hunter, who probably had taken his share of small bears, and certainly would like to shoot a large, fat, mature boar - possibly of record book quality? I would not do it... I'd look for an area with more older bears. - because we all know it is unethical to shoot a sow with cubs. which eliminated all but three bears, two juvenile males and hope.
 
If he did not want to shoot Hope, even though he says yearling bears in that areas, because they get lots of food from people, are larger than normal, running about 150 pounds, why would he shoot any bear under two years old, just to be on the safe side? And I do not want to hear that a veteran bear hunter could not tell the difference between a small, long, lanky 1 year old, and a larger filled out older bear. Heck my kids can tell the difference.

This could have easily been avoided, bt this guy purposely st up in the are - where he knew the most famous blck bear in the world had her home range, one of the bears that the insensitive , crass pedople who started the "Lucy; Bear with a Bounty" (talk about ruining hunter / non hunter relations) page talked about killing in the crudest adn most inflammatory language possible.

This had the non hunting public boiling mad -before Hope was killed. Out image was already damaged because of that guy and the publicity on the TV and in the newpaper.

So, what does this person do? He kills a bear that clearly was not an adult (in fact Dr. Rogers tells me she weighed about 100 pounds), not just any bear, or any reseaerch bear, but theone bear he sasi he did not want to kill.

Was this guy even thinking. Did he care about public perception of hunters at all? Did he think about the $5000 Jackpot offered if no one shot a research bear? I do not believe he was, that he even caared about hsi fellow hunters - or he would not have setup in that area in the first place, and he would not have shot a bear that clealy was under two years of age.

Meanwile I, in my articles and seminars, and my StarTribune Blog, have been trying to show the non hunting public that conservation is needed to save our wild places, and that hunting is a needed game management tool - which means it is not a bad thing - it is a good thing, something the non-hunting public should actually be thanking us for. And this guy comes along and - not in one unthinking moment ---  but probably in a week long series of purposeful decisions --- ends up killing the one bear that would incite non hunters, in an avoidable act that could ruin hunter / non hunter relations - more than any other bear in the world.

 So - lets stop acting macho - and thnk about what really happened here. If you are not as mad as I am - you should be. This guy really hurt us. And I do not know what I can do to repair what he has done, other than describe him as one insensitive, uncaring hunter, among a whole bunch of responsible well meaning hunters. It may take us years to repair this. 

God bless,

T.R.

This guy does not even deserve the right to be called a "hunter" . Hunters make sure of what they are shooting at, care about their fellow hunters, would not jeopardize their fellow hunters chances of winning $5000, and would not make a huge mistake, which he knew would ruin the image of hunters as a whole, and hunting itself - because he cared out public perception. 
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Offline T.R. Michels

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And for anyone who thinks this guy did some great or just "good" feat by kiling this bear, stop and think about that too. This was a year and a half old bear, that was habituated and accustomed to humans, human smells and human food.

It might have come in to a good smelling bait, smelled human or saw or heard human, did not care or was not afraid in the least, and got itself killed. Heck, a person who had never hunted bears before might have been able to kill his bear, because it did not take much skill at all, maybe none.

Nope - this guy has done more harm in one day than all of us can repair in the next several years.

On that note, please - we should all try to present ourselves in a positive manner to non hunters and anti hunters alike. I know that when someone gets in your face and makes negative remarks about hunters - most of us want to push back, to yell, get mad, and swear - me too ...

But, those of us who are in the public eye, such as writers, seminar speakers, authors, pro staffers, TV personalities (I'm all but one of those, never been a TV personality and am not much interested in it, I'm not good looking enough) know we have to present a positive image to non hunters and anti-hunters, and act as role models for the younger generation of hunters - maybe even for the younger generaiton of non-hunters, who might have gotten interested in hunting - due to the internet cameras on Dr.Rogers site, or at www.USeeWildlife.com where I do my research, or one of the hunting shows.

For God's sake do not do what Jeff Foilles did, act like an idiot on camera, and poach. He set us back a notch or two too. 

Be respectful of your fellow hunters, and of the game you hunt, and especially of your weapons, set a goo example for others, obey the hunting regulations and;pick up your trash - so that non hunters and anti hunters do not have anything to accuse us of. 

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.

 
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Offline dakids

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The hunter did nothing wrong!!!  It is legel to harvest this research live stock.  In my opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion,  this bear was reduced to livestock be the researcher.  It has lost its fear of man and therefor is nolonger a wild animal.  In the long run the killing of this research animal could save someone the pain of a bear attack.

Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline bonecollecter82

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This was a year and a half old bear, that was habituated and accustomed to humans, human smells and human food.

It might have come in to a good smelling bait, smelled human or saw or heard human, did not care or was not afraid in the least, and got itself killed. Heck, a person who had never hunted bears before might have been able to kill his bear, because it did not take much skill at all, maybe none.

Nope - this guy has done more harm in one day than all of us can repair in the next several years

Is it the hunters fault that the bear was turned in to Rogers pet Nope Is it the hunters fault that the bear wasnt scared of humans Nope didnt think so. As far as this guy doing more harn in a day then we can fix in the next several days how can you say that and believe it it was legal 100%  the whole propaganda of this so called research is the big mistake I can just imagine the thoughts after the bear is killed by the the researchers it went a little something like this cha ching cha ching cha ching
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Offline Cody Gruchow

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first off he can hunt where he wants to as long as he wasnt trespassing, which he wasnt. he shot a BEAR THAT DIDNT HAVE A COLLAR ON! is every hunter in that whole part of the state suppose to worry about some pet bear that didnt have its collar on, thus which there is no way for him to POSSIBLY TELL that it was her. had he really of been in there with pure bad intentions he would of waited for one of the collared ones and shot it, removed the collar and threw it in a lake or threw it in the brush. which he didnt do. he was completly complient, and reported it. from the sounds of it your saying no one should of even been hunting within 50 miles of the possible location of any of these bears. and your little inside info is nothing but rumors. had a big boar came in i bet he would of shot that one instead. your no one to judge this fellow for being ethical or none eithical, he made a choice and he shouldnt feel guilty about it. does that have fawns with them get shot all the time. i dont know if theres rules about shooting sows with cubs with her, but i think there is. BUT this bear didnt have cubs! he shouldnt be torn apart by anyone including yourself.

Offline naturalistmn

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So we can hunt deer in overpopulated metro areas where the deer are eating peoples vegatables?   Well, perhaps these people shouldn't have built their home over the top of deer habitat.   We must co-exsist, but cities grow and habitat deminishes.   All in which wildlife has no say.   Anti and non hunters don't want thier gardens eaten, but yet, have no problem reducing their habitat.   The people cause the problems, the wildlife must adapt by no choice of their own.   

I don't believe our focus as outdoorsmen is to create and make peace with people who don't hunt, fish, or trap.   If people just don't do it or are against it, that is their right.   We have many other more important issues than trying to change their minds, it's not going to happen any how.   Their will always be people for and against everything.   

This bear is no different than any other of the bears taken during the season as far as the legality aspect goes.   A legal bear is a legal bear.   Period.   Some may not agree with how this man took this bear, but that is just a personal feeling.   Some people don't believe in spearing, some people don't believe in trapping, and so on.   This bear was offered to the media, given a name, and had a story.   This is the wrong image to give wildlife.   Hense the name wildlife.   Wildlife research gets done without intrusion on wild animals.   If this bear had no name and wasn't exposed to the media and Mr. Rogers was still doing his thing with this bear, this bear wouldn't be given a second thought.   Take a minute and think about that.   These bears were given this lifestyle by people, and again, at no choice of their own.   Why do we have to know everything about everything, especially at the cost of our wildlife?   Leave the critters to themselves and in the woods with the life they choose to live.

It is our right as people of this country and state to hunt, fish, and trap.   That, and habitat awareness, is what we should be concerned with.   If one man can change the regulations on our wildlife management practices by media exposure, well, I think we should all step up and be heard.   Branding this man as a "poacher" is no ones right.   Outdoorsmen and non-outdoorsman can sit and argue and complain back and forth forever, all the mean while, our habitat vanishes while doing so.   Non-outdoorsmen are that way because of their beliefs and we haven't the right nor the time to try and change that.   They don't particiapte as we do.   We are the ones buying all the licenses, we are the ones perserving, restoring, and conserving.   

We shoot a big old buck and we are cruisin' down the street and you can see the huge bucks head and rack sticking up out of the pickup bed.   Should we be concerned with offending someone, hell no, we should be proud of what we accomplished and our heritage.   This is Minnesota.   We hunt, fish, and trap.

Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!

Offline Cody Gruchow

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100% agree with you naturalistmn

Offline T.R. Michels

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Killing this bear was totally legal, and I do not know of anyone who says otherwise. But, was it unethical, and avoidable - especially in light of the hunter purposely moving into that area, knowing what he knew about the bears in that specific area, and people's sentiments, that is up for each one of us to decide.

If nothing else I would be mad about him jeopardizing my chances of winning the $5000 jackpot. He must not have cared about other hunters atall ...

And while some people do not see the need to try to educate anti and non hunters, many of us who are in the hunting profession - do see a need to give back, and do what we can for our fellow hunters. I feel I owe at least that much to hunters and the huntng industry- partly because I can TRY - and partly because of the way hunting has made it esy fo me to mnake a living. And my petition shows that I do have some enlightened or educated supporters, and I  expect ther might be a few more signatures coming - because others feel the need to protect these bears - for the sake of Dr. Rogers research.

I think we should all do something, but only if you care about wildlife, wild places and hunting in the future. 

God bless,

T.R.
hey if anyone is on my side - lile some of you older smarter guys, feel freeto jump in here and help me out - i could use the support.
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Offline deadeye

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"If nothing else I would be mad about him jeopardizing my chances of winning the $5000 jackpot. He must not have cared about other hunters atall ..."


Just courious, if the bear was not collered or marked in some way, how can the people who offered the $5000 reward say it was a "research" bear?  I'm thinking they had no intention of paying the reward (I don't know that) and simply could point out any bear killed as a research bear.
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Offline beeker

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I would be curious also as to what you see as a suitable punishment for someone who shoots a collared bear (if they were protected)? take away their gun? their hunting privileges? their truck? maybe kick their dog?

and what selection process should the state of Minnesota/the  DNR use to select the privileged researchers who get to exempt certain game animals? Because if they do it for dr rogers then who's to say no to the next guy that decides he has a group of game animals he wishes to study?

If science fiction has taught me anything, it's that you can never have enough guns and ammo when the zombies come back to life... "WS"

Offline T.R. Michels

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I would be curious also as to what you see as a suitable punishment for someone who shoots a collared bear (if they were protected)? take away their gun? their hunting privileges? their truck? maybe kick their dog?

ANSWER:  Taking away their privilges for a year might make them think a bit. I suppoe a fin might work


and what selection process should the state of Minnesota/the  DNR use to select the privileged researchers who get to exempt certain game animals? Because if they do it for dr rogers then who's to say no to the next guy that decides he has a group of game animals he wishes to study?

ANSWER:

The way you start oour your quexsinsit apears you do not think Dr.Rogers' research is relevant. It must be or his permits woudl never have been grnted by the DNR In fact, he has excellent qualifications, which you will see - if you go to his site and look at all of his positions, degrees and previous resech papers. 

 Unless you are doing "hands on" (research you do not need a permit), because you are not interfering with the animals lives. Second I'm fairly certain they already have a good selectin process  in place.Third Not that many people apply for research permits, because research is often done for a period of three years. It gets very expensive. I suspect you also have to have a degree, or be working on one from a university,and are under the direction of a professor. Fourths .You can fund the study yourself, and if you sdo I'm sure you need excellent qualifi ctions or haehadprevious studies completed with peer reviewed research papers.

so your belief that the nest person may not have the qualifications is eroneous.

BUT 
 holds 
/quote]
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Offline beeker

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I have read dr rogers cirriculum vitae and he is very qualified and I would not look to discredit his educational background. not in the least bit.

you did not fully answer my second question . but please allow me to re-ask. by you statement "I'm fairly certain they already have a good selection process in place" so are you  saying the DNR has a good process then why change it? by your own answers you don't really know the DNR's process so why the harsh words towards them?

 Dr. rogers knew his bear wouldn't be protected when he started his study. correct?

I'm guessing that since you want these bears protected by law you have an example of the propossed law? lets read it. and if you don't, get some hunters together with Dr. rogers and write one. asking people to support the unknown is probably hurting this cause.

if one uncollared bear is all dr rogers lost this year in his research then I think hunters are co-opperating with the request to let em pass.  and any law is not a productive use of our governments time at this point.

truly I'm just trying to understand. I'm open minded and like to educate myself on both sides of the issue. and maybe I can help foster a productive conversation here.
If science fiction has taught me anything, it's that you can never have enough guns and ammo when the zombies come back to life... "WS"

Offline markn

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 Personally I would pass up a collared animal. But they are still fair game in my eyes. Just my two cents worth.
mm

Offline bonecollecter82

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Michels Why do you wanna all but crucify a guy for doing something legal?
What makes a BoneCollector?
They are the hunters that have the passion to go to the ends of the earth, in pursuit of the basic hunter instincy that was instilled in us at birth and is so often taken away in society.

Offline Cody Gruchow

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your right sense im a young guy i dont understand  :doah: all these big sharp words what do they mean :scratch: im young so there for i must be dumb :bonk:

first of all it was not unethical for him to shoot that bear. your view is bias. your also saying that your exploiting hunters for your own personal gain.... so punish those who shoot the collared pets....why not punish people for shooting hen ducks?? or how about for shooting fawns??... or even for shooting a buck not everyone would agree with shooting???.... i forget this dont even look like hunting anymore. id imagine a important part of a black bears life in mn is greatly affected by the black bear HUNTING season. if they want to watch a bear live a protected life go somewhere were there is no black bear hunting... do all the research you can handle. so if they do it in 3 year intervals and ive been hearing about this for the past 3 years does that mean its gonna stop? maybe the dnr gave him the permits to STUDY THEM, but there saying he has no right to tell people they cant shoot his "wild bears". maybe he should buy up a chunk of land and do his study there instead of using public land..... i dont know why you would want to be around a "wild" black bear and her cubs without her being put to sleep first. remember these are "wild" bears and could turn at any moment. black bears are the least predictable animals in the wild. so feeding them and touching them could turn ugly at some point(see timothy treadwell as reference) if research is so expensive how does he afford it? maybe because he gets huge donations from the anti hunting community........so his research and wanting to protect his bears isnt bias at all (rolls eyes)
« Last Edit: October 10/10/11, 09:50:05 PM by Cody Gruchow »

Offline rem

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this guy in my book is up there with troy gentry. Did nothing but stir the pot i wonder when he started that bait sight We usally get our bears in the first week

Offline NDGUY

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I am an older guy, who makes his living off the hunting industry, I have done many seminars at sport shows, DU,Pheasant and Fedaral refuge events, news paper and mag. aticles and have to say to you T.R I know many of the celeb,s you mention, BUT I have stayed grounded in I want to protect my right to hunt,trap ,fish and shoot any legal bear that walks into my well thought out, hard earned, sweat/blood stained clothes, legal bait site (no matter were it is) and not have to answer or feel judged by anyone other than the law....Period

Offline NDGUY

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You know T.R these younger sportsmen and women ARE the future of hunting and conservation and you really should be hearing what they have to say, they are well spoken and educated in these matters also!!!

Offline naturalistmn

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I am an older guy, who makes his living off the hunting industry, I have done many seminars at sport shows, DU,Pheasant and Fedaral refuge events, news paper and mag. aticles and have to say to you T.R I know many of the celeb,s you mention, BUT I have stayed grounded in I want to protect my right to hunt,trap ,fish and shoot any legal bear that walks into my well thought out, hard earned, sweat/blood stained clothes, legal bait site (no matter were it is) and not have to answer or feel judged by anyone other than the law....Period

NDGUY,
What you just said, well, is absolutely flawless.   You are a fine man and an even better outdoorsman.   I mean this for all I'm worth, thank you.
 :Clap:
Shoot straight and give'em the shaft!