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Author Topic: Kicker motor won't start  (Read 9064 times)

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Offline LPS

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His small Merc has spark and fuel and the darn thing won't start.  The plugs get wet from fuel so the carb shouldn't be the problem.  It is a 2005.  There is spark so the kill switch thing must be ok.  It is a 9.9 or an 8. 

Offline dew2

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His small Merc has spark and fuel and the darn thing won't start.  The plugs get wet from fuel so the carb shouldn't be the problem.  It is a 2005.  There is spark so the kill switch thing must be ok.  It is a 9.9 or an 8.
how did you do the spark  test? the fuel  is new an  fresh?  My first thought would be when it was put up last fall moisture may have entered an stopping a spark fuel ignition.Have you changed plugs? first suggestion would be pull plugs,pull rope start an clear cylinders of moisture reinstall plugs an try again,I assume you have no spark tester to see how far the spark jumps.I assume moisture,weak spark or bad fuel
Keeping America clean and beautiful is a one mans job,Mine

Offline Rebel SS

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I just tuned up two mowers and a snowblower today. I'm pooped.  Yer on yer own on this one..... :undecided:


http://s.hswstatic.com/pdf/how-to-repair-small-engines.pdf

This is just a very BASIC guide to get ya started; not all aspects apply. Obviously it's a general small engine guide; not an outboard manual. It'll get ya pointed in the right direction, though...
« Last Edit: April 04/24/17, 07:23:26 PM by Rebel SS »

Online Leech~~

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Sounds like a dirty gunked up carb. If the needle is sticking open if will get to much gas and flood out. Like said, put in new gas, plug and clear the flooded cylinders.
If that don't work, pull and clean the carb.
« Last Edit: April 04/24/17, 11:47:02 PM by Leech~~ »
Cooking over a open fire is all fun and games until someone losses a wiener!

Offline dew2

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« Last Edit: April 04/25/17, 07:17:55 AM by dew2 »
Keeping America clean and beautiful is a one mans job,Mine

Online Leech~~

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Man here we go again I left sites cause of some making suggestins they know nuthin of The needle in a diaphram carb maybe its the float EH?
 So many suggestions form people who never worked on em and so confusing to those who ask for help.I wont use the moderater button nEVER ASKED FOR THE POSITION! But I'm done tryin to help outboard questions

Oop's sorry didn't know no one else was suppose to try and help after you had spoken!  confused-3316.gif

So your saying there is not a gas flow needle in a carb with a diaphram only a float carb has them?   :shocked:
« Last Edit: April 04/24/17, 09:20:46 PM by Leech~~ »
Cooking over a open fire is all fun and games until someone losses a wiener!

Offline Rebel SS

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I'm not getting into this one.  :rolleyes:  But, I will say, folks are just trying to help each other here, whether they're an "expert or not"...hey, it's a public forum, right? That' what input is all about! We usually get to a result sooner or later, and have some yuks along the way.

I'll post a little "primer" to maybe answer some questions and help y'all out.  :azn:

PS...my guess LPS, is a bad diaphragm, or a needle stuck open from some poo, flooding things out.  ;)


It's helpful to understand what's going on and what part of the carb is being used at that time. Any one of several functions can affect operation in sometimes strange ways. What could sound like a rich low end needle setting could easily be a float setting on the needle & seat. A stiff diaphragm will make it run rich too. It could also make it run lean. The high end and low end needles interact throughout the entire throttle range. So if you adjust one needle, you will likely need to adjust the other slightly.

Understanding Fuel & Air Flow

Starting from the gas tank, fuel is pumped in through the carb inlet into a little diaphragm pump which is controlled by 2 one-way flapper valves. The fuel then passes through a needle & seat that is controlled by the float diaphragm. The float diaphragm manages how much fuel is available for the rest of the fuel circuit by opening & closing a passage utilizing a small lever attached to the needle. How much pressure it takes to move this needle off of its seat is called pop-off pressure. Less pressure means more fuel goes into the chamber and will enrichen the mixture. If it takes more pressure to pop off its seat then less fuel is available in the chamber ergo a leaner mixture.

Fuel in the float cavity area is waiting for a vacuum signal at the various jets. The lever setting is very critical since it controls the available fuel to the jets. If the lever is too low (or pop-off pressure too high), the engine will run lean, if the lever is too high (or pop-off pressure is too low), the engine will run very rich and will likely flood out at idle.


History: why so complex?

Float bowl carburetors were, for a long time, the standard method to deliver an engine's fuel and air. But they require being upright so gravity keeps the float floating and metering.

When designers started putting small gas engines on tools, they needed a way to work in unusual orientations. Viola, the membrane carb. You can hold it in any attitude and it will function.

All of these parts reside in the float cavity area as well as the fuel ready to be fed through the jets as needed. The amount of fuel available in the cavity is regulated by the lever and its relationship to the float diaphragm. So it's critical that the lever be set properly. Within the cavity, there are distribution holes that are managed by the low end and high end needles. Plus the idle circuit, which is a fixed size.

Another separate fuel circuit provides a small amount of fuel flow into the throat continuously which helps at the lowest throttle settings. At high power this circuit is still injecting fuel but represents a very small percentage of the total flow. This circuit helps keep a correct mixture for acceleration.

A few notes:

The low end needle is always the one closest to the engine, the high end needle is the closest one to the intake/choke.

On most carbs, both needs adjust the fuel flow but on a few, the low needle actually adjust the air inflow.

Carbs also have an idle stop screw which merely sets where the throttle stops. Screwing it in is just like slowly squeezing your throttle.

Both low end AND high end needles feed the top end fuel supply but the low screw affects the high end fuel flow much less.


 
« Last Edit: April 04/25/17, 06:07:48 AM by Rebel SS »

Offline LPS

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Lots of good stuff from all of you.  We will check the carb first...

Offline dew2

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Sorry I got out of hand guys
 I have answered OB questions on 3 sites and am a mod for a outboard parts sales help site and after awhile it gets to one trying to help.So rather than try to post with 3-10 different suggestions of a repair from 3-10 people I just quit adding  to any confusion by not trying to help. I took classes fro OB Repair and worked in cal.harbors for extra$$

 That said LPS Fuel,compression an spark if yah got those 3 it should run.
 You said it did are the plug wires on the right plugs?
Keeping America clean and beautiful is a one mans job,Mine

Offline Rebel SS

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Accepted, Dew. No problem. That's exactly why you notice I never go in depth anymore on troubleshooting engines, not explaining non- oxy gas merits, etc. I just got sick of doing it. Had my own repair/auger engine column on another site for years. Advice goes in one ear and out the other. I don't see the need to continually repeat myself, and I don't.
I have another mower this morning to fix, because the jerk-off neighbor who owns it didn't take my advice on storing/cleaning it last year, because he's a lazy ass boob. Last time I fix his mower, but I can use the cash right now.  Ya waste yer time explaining things, and it goes in one ear and out the other. THIS time, it's gonna cost him a pocketful of cash to fix his filthy abused mower. After this, he can take it to someone else. I've got better things to do. :evil:
« Last Edit: April 04/25/17, 08:39:04 AM by Rebel SS »

Offline glenn57

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yea i hear you guys loud and clear..................... i get the same way giving hunting and fishing advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pouty-1023.gif pouty-1023.gif :happy1: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline mike89

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yea i hear you guys loud and clear..................... i get the same way giving hunting and fishing advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pouty-1023.gif pouty-1023.gif :happy1: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

huh?? :scratch:
a bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!!

Offline Rebel SS

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yea i hear you guys loud and clear..................... i get the same way giving hunting and fishing advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pouty-1023.gif pouty-1023.gif :happy1: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:


Offline dew2

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Lots of good stuff from all of you.  We will check the carb first...
Remove both plugs put 1/2 tsp mixed fuel in the cyl.put plugs back in an pull to start.
 That carb is a bowl type with diaphragms up top an down below with the diaphragm fuel pump attached.Tough rebuild so many small parts and I thing the kit is fairly expensive!
 If it starts with fuel dumped in then its the carp or fuelpump
 I find it hard to believe its the carb cause of your first post?? Maybe the plugs arent sparkin under compression,plug wires mixed up
Keeping America clean and beautiful is a one mans job,Mine

Offline glenn57

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Lots of good stuff from all of you.  We will check the carb first...
Remove both plugs put 1/2 tsp mixed fuel in the cyl.put plugs back in an pull to start.
 That carb is a bowl type with diaphragms up top an down below with the diaphragm fuel pump attached.Tough rebuild so many small parts and I thing the kit is fairly expensive!
 If it starts with fuel dumped in then its the carp or fuelpump
 I find it hard to believe its the carb cause of your first post?? Maybe the plugs arent sparkin under compression,plug wires mixed up
your gal told me you have a few wires crossed too!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline dew2

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[/quote]your gal told me you have a few wires crossed too!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
[/quote]
 Maybe you could give me some huntin an ffishin advice EH?
Keeping America clean and beautiful is a one mans job,Mine

Offline glenn57

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your gal told me you have a few wires crossed too!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
[/quote]
 Maybe you could give me some huntin an ffishin advice EH?
[/quote] :happy1: :happy1: :happy1: :happy1: :happy1: :happy1:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline LPS

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I will have him do the gas in the cylinder thing.  I wasn't there when he said the plugs were wet.  I will try to be there when it happens.  Thanks all of you guys.  I will let you know if it works...

Offline glenn57

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I will have him do the gas in the cylinder thing.  I wasn't there when he said the plugs were wet.  I will try to be there when it happens.  Thanks all of you guys.  I will let you know if it works...
good luck bud!!! nuttin irritaes me more when things dont work properly!!!!!
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Gunner55

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For us, anytime we have a problem like this we do like dew2 suggests. Pull the plug to look to see if it's wet or fouled, wire brush / clean it & maybe even check the gap. Put it back in the plug wire & pull the recoil to blow any fuel out of the cylinder. Most of the time we will grab a insulated pair of pliers & ground the plug to the cylinder head & give it a few more pulls to see if we can see any spark. If we got spark, we'll then just put small amount of gas in the cylinder & give it a couple pulls. Works most of the time. May have to repeat the process or just try starting it the normal way in order for it to keep running. Just my $.02
Life............. what happens while your making other plans. John Lennon

Offline glenn57

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i still need to get my boat in the water!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: its ready but..........no time. i'm not fishing theopener...thats for amatuers, or crazy people. just not into crowded lakes!
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Gunner55

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Where's it sittin? Outside getting washed? ;D In the garage, where it won't get dirty? Don't use much gas that way :smiley:
Life............. what happens while your making other plans. John Lennon

Offline glenn57

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Where's it sittin? Outside getting washed? ;D In the garage, where it won't get dirty? Don't use much gas that way :smiley:
in the garage!!!!!!!!!!! keep in mind i was very limited to what i could do, per the doc and my wife, tut_tut-3315.gif :banghead: anyway physically all of feb and march...........now i can do more things so still catching up. he said june, but then again................i am pretty much on go time.
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Gunner55

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Just checkin to see if'n you can take as much :bs: as you usually dish out. sleazy-422.gif :laugh: Better than I thought ;) :rolleyes: You found out last time up to the lake how much you can get away with :happy1: & what it feels like when you've went too far tut_tut-3315.gif
Life............. what happens while your making other plans. John Lennon

Offline glenn57

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Just checkin to see if'n you can take as much :bs: as you usually dish out. sleazy-422.gif :laugh: Better than I thought ;) :rolleyes: You found out last time up to the lake how much you can get away with :happy1: & what it feels like when you've went too far tut_tut-3315.gif
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:you guys would buckle at the knees if my brother and i where together!!!!!!!!!! :happy1: :happy1: i'm the better one of the 2!!!!!!!!!!
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline delcecchi

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His small Merc has spark and fuel and the darn thing won't start.  The plugs get wet from fuel so the carb shouldn't be the problem.  It is a 2005.  There is spark so the kill switch thing must be ok.  It is a 9.9 or an 8.

two stroke?  Or 4 stroke?   

Offline Rebel SS

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Just checkin to see if'n you can take as much :bs: as you usually dish out. sleazy-422.gif :laugh: Better than I thought ;) :rolleyes: You found out last time up to the lake how much you can get away with :happy1: & what it feels like when you've went too far tut_tut-3315.gif
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:you guys would buckle at the knees if my brother and i where together!!!!!!!!!! :happy1: :happy1: i'm the better one of the 2!!!!!!!!!!

OMIGOD.....there's TWO of you???!!!                    face_plant-2139.gif

Offline Gunner55

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 :rotflmao: Yeah, & their mom probably doesn't even like it when they get together  tut_tut-3315.gif sleazy-422.gif :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Life............. what happens while your making other plans. John Lennon

Offline LPS

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4 stroke Del.  I don't know if he has tried anything on it yet.  Will keep you posted.

Offline glenn57

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Just checkin to see if'n you can take as much :bs: as you usually dish out. sleazy-422.gif :laugh: Better than I thought ;) :rolleyes: You found out last time up to the lake how much you can get away with :happy1: & what it feels like when you've went too far tut_tut-3315.gif
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:you guys would buckle at the knees if my brother and i where together!!!!!!!!!! :happy1: :happy1: i'm the better one of the 2!!!!!!!!!!

OMIGOD.....there's TWO of you???!!!                    face_plant-2139.gif
YEPPER!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happy1: :happy1: :happy1:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!