Jim Zumbo is in trouble

[Fishahollik]

Assault Rifles For Hunters?

As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.



He is getting crucified in the gun forums for this. I have also read that Remmington pulled their sponsorship.

I for one agree with him. NOBODY needs a AK47, SKS, AR15 for hunting. Sure they may be fun to shoot, but lets be real. If we want to pass the scrutiny from the uneducated, dimwitted general public, we as hunters need not be seen with the same type of guns that they see on CNN used by terrorists. I got no problem with 3-4 round cclips in a semi auto HUNTING rifle like a Browning, Remmington, HK etc...even the lever guns that hold 6-8 rounds are ok.  This includes pistols, nobody but the military and police NEEDS a Baretta or Taurus with a 15 round clip, it also includes full automatic weapons as well as the .50 bmg I mean c'mon hunting anything short of Grizzlys or Elephants with a .50 cal rifle is kinda rediculous don't you think?  Unfortunately if we do not support the right to own ALL types of firearms the anti gun anti hunting crowd will ban them all if we let them get their "foot in the door".  Seems common sense isn't very common these days.

[Benny]

Problem is that the anti's don't care if you own an AR or a model 7400, to them it is still an "automatic" weapon that can hold more than one round at a time.

Several anti media rags have published pictures of a pump 12 gage and called it an Assult Rifle.

So do you really believe that your going to save hunting by not allowing your version of assult rifles to be used?

I doubt that an anti would care if we did ban them, they would just start in on another gun or your fishing rods.

Benny

[Fishahollik]

That was my point Benny. Although I don't believe they are needed, if we don't all fight to keep ALL of our guns, once those freaks get their foot in the door, we're doomed.

[Ice_Hole]

I'm really sorry to hear that Jim said that.  I've met Jim and he is friends with my father-in-law.  He is one of the most down-to-earth guys I've ever met.  I'm going to have to disagree with him on this one.  I don't believe in classifying certain rifles as "Assault" rifles. 

Assault - to attack someone or something violently.

It comes down to the person who uses the weapon.  A single shot .22 or .410 could be used for assault.  I don't have an AK or AR, but I think they are neat guns and fun to shoot.  Why not coyote hunt with them?  Statistics show that the guns classified in the Brady bill as "assault" rifles were not really used in violent crimes.

Fish -  I don't agree with your statement

This includes pistols, nobody but the military and police NEEDS a Baretta or Taurus with a 15 round clip,

Do you understand the concept of why the 2nd amendment was put in place? 

[Ice_Hole]

The blog has since been removed, as Outdoor Life has severed all ties with Zumbo and he is no longer a hunting editor there.  http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/2007/02/statement_from_.html

Reminington also parted ways with him:    http://www.remington.com/library/press/2007/2007-1.asp

The original Blog post content and Jim's apology can be found here: http://www.huntingsense.com/the-jim-zumbo-controversy/

A buddy sent me this link with his comment...
http://thirtysecondthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/perils-of-shooting-your-mouth-off.html

I think we all need to constantly remind ourselves that the 2nd amendment that we know and love has absolutely nothing to do with HUNTING.  As much as I love to hunt and need the 2nd amendment to be able to hunt .... hunting is not why the 2nd amendment was written.

I totally agree!

I feel bad for Jim, as I think that his apology was sincere but unfortunately it was too late and the damage was done.  Here is another good read on the topic:  http://www.huntingsense.com/the-zumbo-comments-fallout/

[Bufflehead]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 It's a sad day in this country,  when a few words can erase a lifetime of commitment to the outdoors.

So much for a free America and freedom of speech.

[labs4me]

Boy if we all had to abide by the same standards, who'd be left posting on internet forums...?!    :-* ???

Haven't we all said things we've regretted and wished we could pull back? 

A sincere apology was made and he has accepted the fact that he needs to educate himself more... isn't that what life is about?  We are all ingnorant to an extent on specific matters and sometimes it takes a rude awakening to get us to see the other side... But sometimes the rude awakening is a life changing turn of events... I hope he makes lemonade out of these lemons!  All in all, he's been a great allie in the defense of hunting and shooting and I hope he remains so.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Bufflehead]

 Go to www.outdoorlife.com and tell them your thoughts on this matter...I did!

 Look for contacts, then click on it.

 I sent mine to the letter to the editor of the magazine

[Fishahollik]

I think he is still a great voice for all gun owners especially hunters. Here is his appology

Here's the latest from Mr.Zumbo.

The last few days have been an educational experience, to say the least. My ill-conceived inflammatory blog, as all of you now know, set off a firestorm that, I’m told, has never before been equaled. I’m not proud of that.

Let me say this at the outset. My words here are from the heart, and all mine. No one can censor me, and I answer to no one but myself. And I have no one to blame but myself. Outdoor Life, a magazine that I worked for full-time as Hunting Editor for almost 30 years, fired me yesterday. My TV show was cancelled yesterday. Many of my sponsors have issued statements on their website to sever all relationships. This may cause many of you to do backflips and dance in the streets, but, of course, I’m not laughing, nor am I looking for sympathy. I don’t want a pity party.

They say hindsight is golden. Looking back, I can’t believe I said the words “ban” and “terrorist” in the context that I did. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I can explain this as sheer ignorance and an irresponsible use of words. What I’ve learned over the last few days has enlightened and amazed me. As a guy who hunts 200 days a year, does seminars on hunting, wrote for six hunting magazines, had a hunting TV show, and wrote 20 books on hunting, how could I have been so ignorant and out of touch with reality in the world of hunting and shooting?

But I was. I really can’t explain it, maybe because I just summarily dismissed the firearms in question in my mind when I saw them in magazines and catalogs. I saw one “black” firearm in a hunting camp in all my 50 years of hunting, and I shot one last year off a boat when fishing in Alaska. To tell the truth, it was fun and I enjoyed it immensely, but I never considered one for use in hunting. I have to tell you that I have had a revelation. I’m learning that many of my pals own AR-15’s and similar firearms and indeed use them for hunting. I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes. That is the absolute truth.

My biggest regret is not the financial impact of all this. I’m almost 67 and retirement is an option. The dreadful impact here is that I inadvertently struck a spear into the hearts of the people I love most…America’s gun owners. And, even though this huge cadre of dedicated people have succeeded in stripping me of my career, I hold no grudges. I will continue to stand as firm on pro hunting as I’ve ever done. But what’s different now is that I’ll do all I can to educate others who are, or were, as ignorant as I was about “black” rifles and the controversy that surrounds them. My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one. The NUGE has invited me to hunt with him using AR-15’s, and I’m eager to go, and learn. I’ll do all I can to spread the word.

I understand that many of you will not accept this apology, believing that the damage has been done and there’s no way to repair it. You have that right. But let me say this. I mentioned this above, and I’ll repeat it. I’m willing to seize this opportunity to educate hunters and shooters who shared my ignorance. If you’re willing to allow me to do that, we can indeed, in my mind, form a stronger bond within our ranks. Maybe in a roundabout way we can bring something good out of this.

Jim Zumbo

[Mayfly]

The guy lost everything over this! :o


http://www.startribune.com/533/story/1032317.html

[WoodChuck]

 ???   call it what you may !! but i dont see any use for a weapon or rifle or hand gun, long gun or any other name that you can come up withthat needs to hold more then 5 rounds . as an american hunter for over 4 decades i have never been in a situation where i have ever had to shoot more then 5 rounds. and as for the so called terroriest , assualt rifles all they are good for is to waste rounds  and to promote wild shooting and not to take sure aim and proper bulit placement.have you ever seen or heard some of these idiots shooting at deer in the brush 25 yds away ? it sounds like a war going on ! what does fire arms safty classes stand for anyways? when we teach our future hunters one thing and then show them how the few mad hunters do what they call fun killing a sport ! ask an americian vetran who has been to war and been shot at and wounded by one of these so called hunting terreriest ,assualt rifles and see what they have to say !!?  >:(
 enough said till you have asked this question ?  mr. zumbro ! you have my heart felt sorrow for those who dont or cant see where you are comeing from!  :P

                                   woodchuck

[Mayfly]

I don't think that he should be fired over this :o But I don't agree with him. I say buy, use whatever you want as long as you are safe.

[tripnchip]

WoodChuck you have said asked and I will answer. First let me give a little back ground of my expeirence with these weapons. 1.Lost way to meny fellow men to these weapons.  2. took a slug in the helmet. 3. took a few slugs in the flak jacket. 4. took a slug through my canteen. The only reason I can give for no blood being drawen is that it just  wasn't my time to go home. Do I hold anything against these wapons. No, not if they are used in a repsonible way. It is not the weapon that causes a problem, but some of the people handeling it are a problem. I taught gun saftey for 30+ years and one of my first statments to a class was that the only true saftey on a firearm was the person handeling. Think about it, if you were to load a weapon and lay it some place safe it would most likely rust beyound operation without  fireing unless somebody disturbed it. No it is not the wapomn being used it is the person behind it and for them it wouldn't any differnce if they were usa full atuo or single shot, they would be carless.
   I have a quistion here. What makes a asault weapon., is it the apearance or the fact that it was used in combat or  what?  If it is apearence, my 1022 looks like a 30 cal. carbine. If it is the fact that it was used in combat we are back to swords ,clubs and arrows. or anything with a point on it.  That may sound a little extrerme but if you look at the record of meny speical intrest groups they get a toe in and then two toes and pretty soon it is both feet and you are left wondering what the H happen.
  Just so you know , my personal choice  is a singleshot rifle or hand gun.

[Bufflehead]

It sickens me to see what has went on

 This was a few words on a blog on the computer.

 Jim Zumbo has been one of US!! for his whole life

 Who is US ?

 He has been a hunter, gun owner, outdoor writer, NRA member and many things more for much of his life.

 He has been attacked by the same people who he has loved a supported for his whole life, like he was some anti-gun chuck Schummer suppporter from New York...He is not that..nor does he deserve that style or kind of treatment

 The people and company's who have done this to him...are the ones who made the mistake...I want NO part of this public hanging of one of our own.

 This is nothing more then a out of hand Lynch mob of days gone by..The NRA, Remington, Outdoor Channel, Outdoor life and who ever else involved, will see little of my outdoor dollars...shame on them. He's one of our own, he should have been protected, corrected and made to right this wrong..not eaten by his own pack. 
 
 
 

[JohnWester]

it is a political BS thing now... nothing should have happened to the guy.  such a shame.

[h2ofwlr]

BS   He flip flopped and lost the trust of the sportsmen for his actions of coming out against rifles.  My Gawd the M-1 Garand is on the ban list of HF0122 among other guns.  Jim stuck his foot in his mouth, simple as that.  And he is paying the price as the antis will be quoting him--I guarantee it.


http://www.startribune.com/533/story/1032317.html  For a full story in the Strib

[WoodChuck]

 ;D  time will tell!! perhaps MR. ZUMBO,S past will tell his future as to his word of mouth mistake? everyones entiteled to a mistake  and a verbal stumble, but god forbid it be one of our own as this would make him fodder for the rest of the gun anti,s. other then military and police agencies ,there is no need for excessive capacity hunting rifle,witch would hold more then 1 in the chamber and 4 in the missed box and try again for a better shot.  ::)

[labs4me]

so are all the 30-30 lever actions that hold 6-7 rounds in that category?  I agree 'one shot' kills should be taught to all kids when they learn to hunt, but I won't join a band wagon that splits what firearms are 'good' and which are 'bad' based on looks or design.  They all do the same thing in the end, whether it's a single shot or multi-shot  semi auto... it is the person shouldering the particular firearm which who has the defect!  Mult-shot kills are not the result of a multi-shot weapon but of a person who has not been given the skills to dispatch an animal quickly.  I have a buddy who yote hunts with an AR-15... usually a 10 round mag... He has taken 3 out of pack in the past, but used 7 rounds to do so.  1st one was down with one round,  second was down on second shot, but later was dispatched with a another, third was a miss on the 1st, knocked over on the second and immediatly up and running which then used a third to put it down for good.

1 in the chamber and four in the magazine is no different than 1 in the chamber and 5 in the magazine or 10 in the magazine or heck even 20 in the magazine.  If repeaters are to be banned their would be no difference given to a 4 shot mag over any other.  then we will be down to single shots and double barrels... like England.  No good. 

United we stand... divided we fall....

[Bufflehead]

Sorry, I'm a big boy and I don't need the NRA or anybody else to tell me what I must stand for or believe in.

 I have had several AR-15s. I like them

 I also don't have to wreck a mans life and his way of making a living because he differed his opinion or experience with me/them.

 What this whole thing does, is make the gun world look like it's on the run. They got us all paranoid..they have a chance to capitalize on our admitted worries of them taking our guns.

 This should have been hushed, taken care of between him, his employer and his sponsors behind closed doors...not out in public for all to see and show our weakness. Instead it's a circus act for the anti's to run with.

 Too many Poor decisions were made and the anti's are now loving it

 Besides, it has devided many of the older gun owners, who have NEVER had a use for AR and AK type weapons with those of the younger..non-hunting but more sport shooting types. My dad as many of yours may not agree with a use for these guns for hunting, much like Jim Zumbo. Can't fault them for that, they have never needed more than a old Model 12 Win, Browning A5, Win model 70, or old 94 lever to put meat on the table. No need for a 20 shot or 30 shot gun to get the job done. They just see some bank robber from Calf. shooting 1000s or rounds at policman from a AK on some re-run of Cops over and over. 

   

[schwinger]

Very well said Bufflehead.. I couldn't agree more.

[Ice_Hole]

  time will tell!! perhaps MR. ZUMBO,S past will tell his future as to his word of mouth mistake? everyones entiteled to a mistake  and a verbal stumble, but god forbid it be one of our own as this would make him fodder for the rest of the gun anti,s. other then military and police agencies ,there is no need for excessive capacity hunting rifle,witch would hold more then 1 in the chamber and 4 in the missed box and try again for a better shot.  ::)

I think the point is being missed, though.  Defending our Second Amendment Right has NOTHING to do with Hunting.

[WoodChuck]

 ;D  it,s all about MR. ZUMBO,S  persecution from what he grew up with and how he precepted the use of this so called hunting weapon! for each of us have to answer to ourselves as to how we would use this item. i dont disagree with the owning of such a firearm , but just to the way a few bad apples do disply it,s usage, just as we all see nightly on our evening news casts with all the wackos try ing to change the world with fire power from these firearms !we are so lucky to live in the USA , AND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ,DISAGREEMENT without someone pulling the auto out and try to change our mindes.

[Bufflehead]

 Great post Wood Chuck, can't agree more

[WoodChuck]

   THANKS !! BUFF, for i cant see anything realy hard about the hole issue?just the representation.

[laker]

  I've enjoyed Zumbo's articles throughout the years. Noone can say he wasn't among the greatest when it comes to outdoor journalism.
  Its too bad that he was treated this way just because he had an opinion and expressed it. Many of us may disagree with his opinion, but isn't that just our opinion?
  Unfortunately, thats how things seem to work in the 'land of the free' nowadays... state your opinion on something, and your whole career is trashed. It is evident from our government to our big corporations.
  The only way to say that I don't agree with those tactics is to not support those who freely use them. Not a red cent of my money for Remington, Outdoor Life or the NRA, ever again, until that day that I hear them issue an apology for their tactics.

[Fishahollik]

My Buddy Buff has it right. I personally don't see a need for the AR's, AK's etc...but hey, to each his own, some shoot, some hunt. Those into "shooting" probably would not like my 700 ADL. Nor my Bareta double but I have no need for a 30 shot mag so they work for me. 

[Bufflehead]

  I've enjoyed Zumbo's articles throughout the years. Noone can say he wasn't among the greatest when it comes to outdoor journalism.
  Its too bad that he was treated this way just because he had an opinion and expressed it. Many of us may disagree with his opinion, but isn't that just our opinion?
  Unfortunately, thats how things seem to work in the 'land of the free' nowadays... state your opinion on something, and your whole career is trashed. It is evident from our government to our big corporations.
  The only way to say that I don't agree with those tactics is to not support those who freely use them. Not a red cent of my money for Remington, Outdoor Life or the NRA, ever again, until that day that I hear them issue an apology for their tactics.

AMEN!!! Laker

[JD]

I'm really sorry to hear that Jim said that.  I've met Jim and he is friends with my father-in-law.  He is one of the most down-to-earth guys I've ever met.  I'm going to have to disagree with him on this one.  I don't believe in classifying certain rifles as "Assault" rifles. 

Assault - to attack someone or something violently.

It comes down to the person who uses the weapon.  A single shot .22 or .410 could be used for assault.  I don't have an AK or AR, but I think they are neat guns and fun to shoot.  Why not coyote hunt with them?  Statistics show that the guns classified in the Brady bill as "assault" rifles were not really used in violent crimes.

Fish -  I don't agree with your statement

This includes pistols, nobody but the military and police NEEDS a Baretta or Taurus with a 15 round clip,

Do you understand the concept of why the 2nd amendment was put in place? 

This law is in place to protect Law Enforcement, only allowing Law Enforcement and Military to use a 15 rounds mag allows them to be "one up" on criminals.

[jonmzak]

I'm really sorry to hear that Jim said that.  I've met Jim and he is friends with my father-in-law.  He is one of the most down-to-earth guys I've ever met.  I'm going to have to disagree with him on this one.  I don't believe in classifying certain rifles as "Assault" rifles. 

Assault - to attack someone or something violently.

It comes down to the person who uses the weapon.  A single shot .22 or .410 could be used for assault.  I don't have an AK or AR, but I think they are neat guns and fun to shoot.  Why not coyote hunt with them?  Statistics show that the guns classified in the Brady bill as "assault" rifles were not really used in violent crimes.

Fish -  I don't agree with your statement

This includes pistols, nobody but the military and police NEEDS a Baretta or Taurus with a 15 round clip,

Do you understand the concept of why the 2nd amendment was put in place? 

This law is in place to protect Law Enforcement, only allowing Law Enforcement and Military to use a 15 rounds mag allows them to be "one up" on criminals.

This would only work if the criminals follow the law

[Ice_Hole]

This law is in place to protect Law Enforcement, only allowing Law Enforcement and Military to use a 15 rounds mag allows them to be "one up" on criminals.

Law Enforcement and Military are GOVERNMENT agencies.  Wasn't the 2nd Amendment established to protect our right to bear arms, in case we need to protect ourselves?  Maybe even from a GOVERNMENT like the British, in the days when the 2nd Amendemnt was written? 

I agree with Jon.  The above only works if the criminals follow the law. 

I'm sure we have law enforcement folks on here.  I would like to hear what they say about weapons they run into on the street.  What impact did the Brady Bill have on that?  Did they notice a change when it was lifted?