Recent

Check Out Our Forum Tab!

Click On The "Forum" Tab Under The Logo For More Content!
If you are using your phone, click on the menu, then select forum. Make sure you refresh the page!
The views of the poster, may not be the views of the website of "Minnesota Outdoorsman" therefore we are not liable for what our members post, they are solely responsible for what they post. They agreed to a user agreement when signing up to MNO.

Author Topic: corona pandemic~  (Read 503483 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
BS because ya don't like it or BS because you don't think those half million dead people are really dead?
nope neither.....i believe its real.....total  :bs: because there is to much politics involved.....like moving the goalpost. manipulating the data, when a person dies if there infected its classified rona, regardless of what that individual actully died from, for monetery reasons. changing the rules....Walz playing dictator. ruining businesses. i think i'm capable of deciding if its safe enough to go into a bar or resturuant if i soley choose. not have big brother decide for me.

we didnt do christmas because of it, way scaled back thanksgiving and since this started we've gone to a bar 1 time, mainly to get out of the house for a while.
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
Just for the record i am sick of all the restrictions too. I just don't think the data is "rigged". I'm sure there are isolated cases where it is not accurately categorized but I also know a lot of people who have had it and choose not to get tested, skewing data the other way.

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
Just for the record i am sick of all the restrictions too. I just don't think the data is "rigged". I'm sure there are isolated cases where it is not accurately categorized but I also know a lot of people who have had it and choose not to get tested, skewing data the other way.
for the sake of discussion, how can you say you know they had it when they were not tested???

I get the 2 main symptoms when I get a bad head cold. No taste or smell??

I will be donating blood Tuesday next week, they'll test again if I got antibodies.
« Last Edit: February 02/12/21, 10:58:33 AM by glenn57 »
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
Because they were directly exposed by family members or others they were close to but I suppose we can all believe otherwise. Pretty obvious t me if one family member tests for it and then the other 5 come down with similar symptoms the chances are pretty good that they got it.

Online Steve-o

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 6609
  • Karma: +17/-9
I just don't think the data is "rigged".

Well, it kinda is... now.

I don't know what to tell you about all the death statistics.  If someone died of heart failure while infected by Covid, did Covid kill them?  I don't want to argue those points all over again.

Here is my point.  The World Health Organization is changing the rules.

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05 - Nucleic acid testing (NAT) technologies that use polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for detection of SARS-CoV-2

They are changing the protocol for PCR testing midstream in the pandemic.

Why is this bad?

Because the changes they implemented will reduce positive detections.  Some will claim that this was done to reduces false positives, but from a science perspective, it ruins the data.

We can no longer tell if the improvements to infection rates or deaths has anything to do with policies and regulations implemented or the effectivity of vaccines or simply because they changed the test.

'Course, what this does do - if you weren't paying attention to the timing of this change - it will do two things.

1) It will allow the Biden administration to claim that the numbers started improving after he took office.
2) It will allow the drug companies to take more credit than they deserve for the effectivity of their vaccine.

Just sayin...  :mad1:
« Last Edit: February 02/12/21, 11:21:59 AM by Steve-o »

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
Because they were directly exposed by family members or others they were close to but I suppose we can all believe otherwise. Pretty obvious t me if one family member tests for it and then the other 5 come down with similar symptoms the chances are pretty good that they got it.
ok I could buy that. :happy1:why not get tested though??
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
Because they were directly exposed by family members or others they were close to but I suppose we can all believe otherwise. Pretty obvious t me if one family member tests for it and then the other 5 come down with similar symptoms the chances are pretty good that they got it.
ok I could buy that. :happy1:why not get tested though??
This was a lady and her husband and family. I work with the two adults. When they were required to miss work for covid they needed to show positive test results. I asked her if they had the kids tested, she said "Why? We already knew they had it."

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
I just don't think the data is "rigged".

Well, it kinda is... now.

I don't know what to tell you about all the death statistics.  If someone died of heart failure while infected by Covid, did Covid kill them?  I don't want to argue those points all over again.

Here is my point.  The World Health Organization is changing the rules.

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05 - Nucleic acid testing (NAT) technologies that use polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for detection of SARS-CoV-2

They are changing the protocol for PCR testing midstream in the pandemic.

Why is this bad?

Because the changes they implemented will reduce positive detections.  Some will claim that this was done to reduces false positives, but from a science perspective, it ruins the data.

We can no longer tell if the improvements to infection rates or deaths has anything to do with policies and regulations implemented or the effectivity of vaccines or simply because they changed the test.

'Course, what this does do - if you weren't paying attention to the timing of this change - it will do two things.

1) It will allow the Biden administration to claim that the numbers started improving after he took office.
2) It will allow the drug companies to take more credit than they deserve for the effectivity of their vaccine.

Just sayin...  :mad1:
If that is true how would it explain the corresponding decrease in hospitalizations?

Online Steve-o

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 6609
  • Karma: +17/-9
I just don't think the data is "rigged".

Well, it kinda is... now.

I don't know what to tell you about all the death statistics.  If someone died of heart failure while infected by Covid, did Covid kill them?  I don't want to argue those points all over again.

Here is my point.  The World Health Organization is changing the rules.

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05 - Nucleic acid testing (NAT) technologies that use polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for detection of SARS-CoV-2

They are changing the protocol for PCR testing midstream in the pandemic.

Why is this bad?

Because the changes they implemented will reduce positive detections.  Some will claim that this was done to reduces false positives, but from a science perspective, it ruins the data.

We can no longer tell if the improvements to infection rates or deaths has anything to do with policies and regulations implemented or the effectivity of vaccines or simply because they changed the test.

'Course, what this does do - if you weren't paying attention to the timing of this change - it will do two things.

1) It will allow the Biden administration to claim that the numbers started improving after he took office.
2) It will allow the drug companies to take more credit than they deserve for the effectivity of their vaccine.

Just sayin...  :mad1:
If that is true how would it explain the corresponding decrease in hospitalizations?

No, you're right.  The methods and motives of the WHO should never be questioned because they ONLY have our best interest at heart.

I keep waiting for science and all we get is political :bs:.

From a science study perspective, they couldn't have picked a worse time throughout this whole pandemic to change the testing protocol threshold, and yet they did.

Why?   :scratch:

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
The tinfoil flows deep my friend

Online Steve-o

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 6609
  • Karma: +17/-9
You didn't answer the question.

If you *really* want to know how effective your vaccines are, you don't change the testing protocol to lower the positive test threshold.

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to recognize that.
« Last Edit: February 02/12/21, 12:21:46 PM by Steve-o »

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
The majority of scientists, doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are part of a vast conspiracy to keep us out of bars and restaurants. I get it.
« Last Edit: February 02/12/21, 12:30:26 PM by roony »

Online Steve-o

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 6609
  • Karma: +17/-9
Still didn't answer the question...   :tut:

If you *really* want to know how effective the vaccines are, should you change the testing protocol *NOW* to lower the positive test threshold?   :confused:

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
Because it's not some kind of science project. New and improved diagnosing and treatment will and should be used when they can benefit people.Do you think the advances in treatment that occurred during Trump's term were just for his benefit? Should we have let more people die so the statistics wouldn't be skewed?
« Last Edit: February 02/12/21, 12:47:25 PM by roony »

Online Steve-o

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 6609
  • Karma: +17/-9
Again, you miss the point by a mile.  Go ahead and improve the treatments to benefit people.  And yes, having more accurate tests with fewer false positive might seem *nice*, but when you change the diagnosing threshold, you lose the means to use historical data to objectively determine if the treatments/vaccines are truly effective.

And IF you don't make a big fuss about lowering the thresholds (and no one seems to have yet), THEN when numbers look better, everyone can erroneously conclude the vaccines and lock-down policies are a smashing success.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me.

Or am I merely guilty of critical thinking.  :scratch:

And you still didn't answer the question...  :tut:

If you *really* want to know how effective the vaccines are, is it a good idea to lower the positive test threshold *NOW* ?   :confused:

Online Dotch

  • MNO Moderator
  • Master Outdoorsman
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
  • Karma: +57/-8
Time itself is bought and sold, the spreading fear of growing old contains a thousand foolish games that we play. (Neil Young)

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
Have to agree to disagree Steve. I just don't think all the health care professionals are out to get me.

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline roony

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3625
  • Karma: +25/-10
The pandemic has taken its toll you Dotch.

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
Oh yippee. Walz is letting restaurants stay open till 11 pm and Increasing indoor capacities effective tomorrow. :bow: :bow: all hail Walz. :crazy:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Offline delcecchi

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3692
  • Karma: +19/-374
Not able to figure out Smurfy's issue, not that that is unusual.    Covid is a real thing, and killing a lot of people, especially us old fartz, but also some middle folks with other issues.     My neighbor at the lake was sort of ignoring it and got really sick.   Fortunately he survived.   

Wife and I got our first shots, so in a few more weeks we will be ready to rock and roll and leave the house.   :wowza:

Offline deadeye

  • MNO Moderator
  • Master Outdoorsman
  • *
  • Posts: 6164
  • Karma: +19/-12
I'll take a shot at the question.  Lets say the "old" test had a proven plus 10% error rate.  So 100 people tested, 10 were in error so the real number was X-10%.  This is now a known quantity or number of people that's the real nut. So now they come up with a new test that's 100% accurate. (or some number of your choice) Now the number of positives should equal the number tested or X.  Simple math shows it really wouldn't matter if the process was changed to make it less or more accurate. 
As far as Covid deaths go, I believe the "excess" deaths is a pretty good indicator of the impact be cause it filters out what would be considered the "normal" deaths.  Example a selected demographic had 100 deaths in 2017, 102 in 2018 103 in 2019, one would expect 104 deaths in 2020.  Now if there were 108 deaths it's a pretty good chance the "excess" deaths came from something other than what would be "normal" so what changed?? My guess is covid.
***I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.***

Offline Leech~~

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 3211
  • Karma: +25/-133
Oh yippee. Walz is letting restaurants stay open till 11 pm and Increasing indoor capacities effective tomorrow. :bow: :bow: all hail Walz. :crazy:
I'm going to have to dig back to all my "Wait for It" posts I made before and right after the election that things were going to loosen up a few weeks into February. Walz, Biden and the Left are healing us!  :bow: :bow: :bs:
Cooking over a open fire is all fun and games until someone losses a wiener!

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
Not able to figure out Smurfy's issue, not that that is unusual.    Covid is a real thing, and killing a lot of people, especially us old fartz, but also some middle folks with other issues.     My neighbor at the lake was sort of ignoring it and got really sick.   Fortunately he survived.   

Wife and I got our first shots, so in a few more weeks we will be ready to rock and roll and leave the house.   :wowza:
read my post on the top of this page. Pretty self explanatory in my opinion.

And yes I grant you what he did today is a step in the right direction. :happy1:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Online glenn57

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 44761
  • Karma: +207/-191
  • 2015 deer contest champ!!!
I'll take a shot at the question.  Lets say the "old" test had a proven plus 10% error rate.  So 100 people tested, 10 were in error so the real number was X-10%.  This is now a known quantity or number of people that's the real nut. So now they come up with a new test that's 100% accurate. (or some number of your choice) Now the number of positives should equal the number tested or X.  Simple math shows it really wouldn't matter if the process was changed to make it less or more accurate. 
As far as Covid deaths go, I believe the "excess" deaths is a pretty good indicator of the impact be cause it filters out what would be considered the "normal" deaths.  Example a selected demographic had 100 deaths in 2017, 102 in 2018 103 in 2019, one would expect 104 deaths in 2020.  Now if there were 108 deaths it's a pretty good chance the "excess" deaths came from something other than what would be "normal" so what changed?? My guess is covid.
I could buy into this philosophy a bit. I never said covid didn't kill people, what pissed me off, someone gets killed in a car accident, they test positive it considered rona related and that's  pure :bs:
2015 deer slayer!!!!!!!!!!

Online mike89

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 24921
  • Karma: +57/-11
heard that and more from folks in the hospitals
a bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!!

Online KEN W

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 2433
  • Karma: +3/-12
  • "Conservative on some things...Liberal on others."
My  wife and I get our second shots today. Hearing that more people are reacting to the second one. Anyone here have that problem?
Conservative on some things.....Liberal on others.....Sane most of the time.

Only the best Packers get to be Vikings.

Offline markn

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 1953
  • Karma: +4/-0
Ken I don't recall which shot the wife had, but after the second one she was sore for a couple of days. She works at one of the retirement homes here. Good luck.  :happy1: :happy1:
mm

Online mike89

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 24921
  • Karma: +57/-11
what it means if ya don't feel good after the 2nd shot it's working..  it make our immune system go to work... 
a bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!!

Online Dotch

  • MNO Moderator
  • Master Outdoorsman
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
  • Karma: +57/-8
Not able to figure out Smurfy's issue, not that that is unusual.    Covid is a real thing, and killing a lot of people, especially us old fartz, but also some middle folks with other issues.     My neighbor at the lake was sort of ignoring it and got really sick.   Fortunately he survived.   

Wife and I got our first shots, so in a few more weeks we will be ready to rock and roll and leave the house.   :wowza:

Yep it's real alright. Good friend got sick with COVID & got pneumonia as a side effect. They pumped him full of drugs with the newer protocol they're using now and within a week he was back at it. Where is he now? In Mexico! Where am I? Something wrong with this picture... :confused: :rotflmao:
Time itself is bought and sold, the spreading fear of growing old contains a thousand foolish games that we play. (Neil Young)