Patternmaster users must read!!!

[guythathunts]

Just an FYI. The new Federal Black Cloud ammo can not be shoot out of the patternmaster chokes! I heard rumors of this and it has been confirmed by Patternmaster that it is extremely dangerous to use Black Cloud with a Patternmaster. Just thought that someone may be able to use this info. 

~ Greg

[JohnWester]

thanks for the info... can this be confirmed anywhere?  not that I don't believe you guy...     maybe a quick note to federal.

[ChrisWallace]

Thats news to me.......not saying people that work somewhere, that makes BC does, but I sure hope not, I bought 10 cases of that already......

Where are you getting this info from? I checked patternmasters website and didnt see nothing.

I am gonna have to call play the bull chit card on this post. The wad is the same was as the turkey load which shoots out of the patternmaster.

[rchaze60]

I dont know where you got this ???? I have checked the Federal ammo website and pattern master and have not seen nothing on this would you care to indulge your info as to where you got this

[holdemtwice]

 I know greg will back this post up .  Let us give him a little time to respond . He doesnt make   bull claims  just to post . I am sure he will link this  so that everyone  will be satisfied . 

  Greg,  thanx fot taking the time to post this.  information like this  needs to be put out there. It is because of members like you  that make this site so good. Keep up the great  post.


  HT  Holdemtwice

[JohnWester]

Chris, don't you work at federal?
I am going to call out there today.

[rchaze60]

I just called Federal and asked and this is true they say not to use black cloud with the patternmaster chokes so I stand corrected and they also said that if you do use it dont over choke it has something to do with the wad

[JohnWester]

Okay, I got the skinny on this.  I called federal and talked to a very informative guy.   He said that because of the way the new black cloud ammo was designed with a new type of flight control wad that opens in the rear, not like a traditional wad, the more constricting patternmaster chokes will cause the wad to not work properly and you will get an awful pattern.  He says it?s not dangerous to shoot them with a patternmaster choke, you just won?t get the performance that federal claims, so essentially you?d be throwing your money away buying these premium shells.

[guythathunts]

Thank you all for the updated info. I work at Sportsman's Warehouse in St. Cloud and have been hearing the roomers about this issue. One of our guys spoke to someone from Federal at the Game Fair on Saturday and it WAS confirmed that the Patternmaster Black Cloud Ammo combo was A BAD ONE! I got my Info first had from the gun room manager at Sportsman's Warehouse and he got his from the very people that make the ammo. To RC and BFG: I appreciate you guys doing some research and asking the questions that you did. False information on a site like this can be a harmfull thing to a good business and to hunters alike, so thank you for investigating further and giving us this valuable information. To Chris: Research on your part could have been done also since you "work for Federal" -as I have seen you post at other times on this site- I was hoping you could back me up on this, but I realize that you may not be "in the loop" on these sorts of things and that is OK. I have a call into patternmaster and the main man there is giving me a call back at noon today. I am sure if a poor pattern is going to be the result of this combo he doesn't want us, as hunters, using it. I would hate for someone to get hurt (although it seems that we have seen that is not going to be the issue) or have poor performance in the field because they did not have all the info.

Be safe, know your stuff, and help when you can!
~ Greg
- I will let you all konw what I hear from Mike at Patternmaster after I hear from him  Ps. To Holdem "Thanks for the back up!" YOU ROCK!

[JohnWester]

sounds good Greg... thanks for bringing this to our attention.  I am looking forward to hear what Mike has to say.

[rchaze60]

same here Thank you for posting this I thought it was true and wanted to hear it from the source and yes it doesnt take much effort to make a call or two to find out things . That is way this site is so great and I would not want it any other way that is way we are one BIG FAMILY HERE so lets just keep it up and shoot for the beyond

[ChrisWallace]

To Chris: Research on your part could have been done also since you "work for Federal" -as I have seen you post at other times on this site- I was hoping you could back me up on this, but I realize that you may not be "in the loop" on these sorts of things and that is OK.

Sorry I was just getting home from a 12 hour shift with Allina. A quick scan through patternmaster's and federals website said nothing. At four in the morning, I didnt think Dennis Shoemaker would be interested in getting a phone call talking about wads.

[JohnWester]

To Chris: Research on your part could have been done also since you "work for Federal" -as I have seen you post at other times on this site- I was hoping you could back me up on this, but I realize that you may not be "in the loop" on these sorts of things and that is OK.

I didnt think Dennis Shoemaker would be interested in getting a phone call talking about wads.

oh come Chris, I am sure he wouldn't have minded a call at home...

[guythathunts]

I spoke to Mike from Pattermaster this afternoon and he said that Black Cloud would not pattern that well out of a patternmaster. He did voice his opinion on the ammo and he said that has shot Black Cloud through a Patternmaster and a standard choke and it didn't pattern well through either. He suggested that if you have a patternmaster you should stick with standard steal shot or any rounded shot. The nature of the odd shaped shoot is more of what makes the Black cloud ammo inconsistent. I want to make it clear that he was not bashing Federal, he was just stating what he had found in patterning the ammo. Mike from Patternmaster was extremely knowledgeable and very helping on the phone. I even learned a few things from the guy in our 10 min conversation. So, from what I now understand: Patternmaster + Black Cloud is probably not the best option for optimal performance. Also if you are thinking about shooting Black Cloud this season it would probably be a good idea to pattern it to see how it performs. I plan on doing this next week and will let you guys know what I find. I might think of something else, but for now I'm out. One more thing --- We have to keep eachother informed on things like this because we ALL lead busy lives (For example ChrisWallace works 12hr days at Allina and works at Federal!) Thanks for everyones input and research! Any new findings let us ALL know!!!
 
~ Greg

[JohnWester]

thanks for that info Greg.  We should try and get Mike this link somehow.

[holdemtwice]

 Now this is what team work is all about !!  i commend  everyone  for their posts  and due diligence in finding the facts. I stated earlier on in this post that Greg wouldn't post anything  without the back up. He didn't let me down either. I'm very glad he brought this to our attention . I was going to shoot that load  this fall  with Greg  goose hunting , we just chatted about that on Tuesday!! so  kudos to everyone involved .
  One thing  in closing. we shouldn't jump to any unfounded conclusions  until there is some type of proof  to disprove or  prove a fact. The great thing about this site is  we can  post  just about anything. I just want people to think before they make a negative post .

 WELL DONE MNO MEMBERS  AND STAFF !!!!   

  HT

[Realtree]

This is some great info to have. I have a few friends who I believe have been or are planning to shoot the Black Cloud. I am sending them a link to this info right now. Thank you everyone for you diligence in getting this info verified and out here for us! 

[JohnWester]

i did some more searching on the net and found on another site a topic simular to this, and they brought up a good point.  It doesn't have to be just patternmaster chokes that would cause this problem...  others could too.  I am not trying to bad mouth the new federal black cloud shells, in most guns they would probably have great results.  it might be worth trying it out first if you plan on using it in your gun and see what kind of pattern you get.  For that matter, what ever you shoot you should test the pattern to know what you are getting for results.

[Realtree]

Excellent point BFG! It is definitely an intregral part of the hunt to get out in the field prior to opener and not only sight in your firearm (scope), but also to get comfortable with your patterning. I typically bring a box or two of my preferred shell, but also will try a box or two of new shell (or two) just to see if I am shooting the best possible shell for my firearm and also for what I am hunting. A little time invested in these things prior to the hunt will help to increase the success of your time in the field during the hunt, and i know for me personally, I need as many things swinging in my favor as possible when I am out there..... :ROTFLMAO:   

[Benny]

Just to reaffirm that the Black cloud ammo doesn't pattern well with the PM chokes, I talked in length with the Federal rep out at the game fair and he told me that they did slow motion video on the PM chokes to see why they were not patterning.

He said the PM chokes rip the rear pedals off the rear opening wad so it just tumbles spreading the shot all over the place.

Federal didn't try to make the PM's obsolete for the BC ammo, but it does effectively force one to use a straight open or modified tube rather than a choke designed to slow a conventional wad.

He also said the ridge around the shot was designed to cut through the feathers and skin better, causing a larger wound chanel and more damage to the bird for faster kills.

It was not designed to slow the shot string down, and it suposedly doesn't .
Although that was one area he was hessatent to confirm.

Just relaying the info I got from the Federal rep.

Benny

[holdemtwice]

 thanx  benny  .. 

  ht

[duckyboymn]

Bought the NEW Patternmaster Black Cloud choke. Works great! This tube was designed by both Patternmaster and Federal specifically for Black Cloud ammo. Check it out on their website. By the way...Cabela's doesn't carry this...and wont. Gander mountain, Dick's also don't carry it. I ordered mine directly from Patternmaster...less than $4.00 shipping.

Also, the Flightcontrol wad was a knock off of their turkey wad...nothing new...just marketing it with steel shot for waterfowl!

Go get em!

[PJ Maguire]

Throw in a Mod choke and you shouldn't have any problems. I hunted in the Early season with a buddy that was shooting BC and his geese were the bloodiest geese I have ever seen. That stuff tears em up. 

[The General]

Black cloud works great.  My buddy was shooting them up in Canada this year.  He is an excellent shot.  I don't believe he sailed one goose this year they crumbled from the sky.  But for 3 1/2 I believe they are roughly $25 a box times 10 boxes = $250.  Me with my regular patternmaster kill geese as far as i ever seen someone shoot a goose and I can't remember sailing too many.  So $90 for the choke I shoot 3 1/2 winchester, remingtons, kents, fiochi, what evern I find for around $12 a box times 10 = $210 the first investment and $120 every year after that (considering I find the shells at $12 a box).  So to me if you do much hunting at all Black Cloud is a waste of money. 

[PJ Maguire]

So to me if you do much hunting at all Black Cloud is a waste of money. 

True. I buy the cheapest steel I can get my hands on.

[guythathunts]

My brother in law shoots 3 1/2 BC like it is free and he is chasing birds arrounf all day long. If  your shooting at close birds it shouldn't matter. You are better off investing in a good call and getting good at it to get them to come closer than you are spending out your ears to reach out further. 3 1/2 inch shells and BC are a waist of money. Don't be fooled by the shinny packages and bright lights. It is all a marketing scam. Areason for us  to give them more of our money.

[The General]

My brother in law shoots 3 1/2 BC like it is free and he is chasing birds arrounf all day long. If  your shooting at close birds it shouldn't matter. You are better off investing in a good call and getting good at it to get them to come closer than you are spending out your ears to reach out further. 3 1/2 inch shells and BC are a waist of money. Don't be fooled by the shinny packages and bright lights. It is all a marketing scam. Areason for us  to give them more of our money.

I'd agree with trying to get them closer that's just being an ethical hunter. But as you take that second and third shot the birds are farther.  i will def take a 3 1/2 inch shell over a 3 inch any day shooting waterfowl.  It's not rocket science IMHO more pellets better chances.

The call I don't but that's just my opinion.  I use a bigriver flute and call in all the geese I can handle.  Plenty of pics to prove it if my word isn't good enough.

[guythathunts]

No, you are wrong. 3 1/2 inch shells pattern like crap. If your a decent shot (and I am sure you are) a 3 inch shell will out perform (more pellets in the kill zone) a 3 1/2 inch shell at ethical distances. And you are correct, it is not rocket science, it is just regular old science. You should try applying it sometime (patterning some 3's vs 3 1/2's) , you will be surprised.
As far as th Big River flute goes... ( I was going to let this one go, since I'm on a roll  ) I am sure you have pleanty of picures form, years past, early season, and huntis in the Dakotas. That is fine and dandy, but I will bet you one billion dollars every day for one billion days that it doesn't sound like a goose. EVER. Nope Never.

I am not spouting off at the mouth. I speak the truth! Improve your odds, save money and kill more birds - that's the name of the game!

[The General]

No, you are wrong. 3 1/2 inch shells pattern like crap. If your a decent shot (and I am sure you are) a 3 inch shell will out perform (more pellets in the kill zone) a 3 1/2 inch shell at ethical distances. And you are correct, it is not rocket science, it is just regular old science. You should try applying it sometime (patterning some 3's vs 3 1/2's) , you will be surprised.
As far as th Big River flute goes... ( I was going to let this one go, since I'm on a roll  ) I am sure you have pleanty of picures form, years past, early season, and huntis in the Dakotas. That is fine and dandy, but I will bet you one billion dollars every day for one billion days that it doesn't sound like a goose. EVER. Nope Never.

I am not spouting off at the mouth. I speak the truth! Improve your odds, save money and kill more birds - that's the name of the game!

WOW.  All I'm going to say is if anyone believes that they are welcome to come with me on a fall trip and I will prove this wrong.  ALL OF IT.  My patternmaster with a 3 1/2 in BB has an average i believe it was of 138 - 140 pellets (it was a few years ago when I did the patterning) of those pellets 94% of them where in a 20 in circle at 40 yards.  I don't even think a 3 in shell has that many pellets to begin with.  But 347 ducks and geese where shot buy four of us in 6 days, 64 canadians all called in with the big river and I'm completely wrong.  OK

P.S. I forgot to tell everyone I tuned my call to sounds like wheat saying, "come and eat me"(I charge extra if you want me to tune your call like that)