Minnesota Lawmaker wants to ban lead bullets

[Moving2thecountry]

Minn. lawmaker mulls lead bullet ban for hunters

Also, you may contact the lawmaker at:  rep.sandra.masin@house.mn  or her website:

Associated Press

Last update: January 1, 2009 - 7:13 PM

 MOORHEAD, Minn. - Beth Siverhus has hunted deer since 1976, and for the first time next year she plans to use copper-coated bullets instead of lead.

That's because the Warroad woman also spends time rehabilitating injured birds, and in the last year observed several eagles die from lead poisoning. She believes they likely ingested the lead while eating piles of deer guts left in the woods by hunters.

"It's a pretty sick feeling to realize I could have been doing something to both contaminate the food we eat, and make wildlife sick that are feeding on the gut piles," Siverhus told Minnesota Public Radio News.

Siverhus said she hadn't previously worried much about reports of lead fragments in venison, which led some Minnesota food shelfs to ban venison donations.

State Rep. Sandy Masin, DFL-Eagan, thinks what Siverhus is doing voluntarily should instead be state law. She hasn't worked out details, but Masin said she intends to introduce legislation that would either ban or severely curtail the use of lead bullets for hunting.

"We know that it's impacting the death of birds, and we also know we've been working really hard to keep lead from our children," said Masin. "Somehow there has to be a way. This is within our environment and we need to find a way to curtail it."

But Masin could face opposition from some recreation groups.

"I don't think there's a need for government regulation, and I don't think there's a traumatic influence here that is needing government regulation," said Mark Johnson, executive director of the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association.

Johnson said no one questions that lead is a neurotoxin, but said it's not been proven that lead bullet fragments have poisoned any people.

"Yeah, we have lead fragmentation in venison. It's in small amounts. The exposure is limited. So is it really a problem? The answer seems to be no at this point," Johnson said.

Copper ammunition is more expensive than lead, and Johnson said he used a type of copper covered bullet for his 2008 hunt and found it less accurate than lead bullets.

Johnson said he'd like to see more research before steps are taken to ban lead bullets. Masin agreed with the call for more research, but said there's already enough evidence to warrant legislation. She plans to have a bill ready for review in the legislative session that starts next week.

Siverhus said she hopes more hunters will follow her lead. "I understand that hunters find this difficult," Siverhus said. "I found it difficult. But I believe it's time to change."

[kenhuntin]

It makes sense to me. Why would you want to inject your food with a toxin?  I know some people don't believe lead is a poison and some believe the moon landing happened in a Hollywood studio.

[cobb]

Why would you want to inject your food with a toxin?

I don't, I discard the shot meat from my deer and pheasants.

[beeker]

how stupid... lead sprinkled gut piles all over the woods poisoning eagles.  how does she know the eagle didn't eat a toy made in china?  what a tool

[joker31888]

I wonder if shes one of the nuts forcing us to put mercury filled lightbulbs in our house.
But we can't let a little lead fly!?!?!?

[Moving2thecountry]

Good point joker31888. 

[Bufflehead]

Quote
"State Rep. Sandy Masin, DFL-Eagan, thinks what Siverhus is doing voluntarily should instead be state law. She hasn't worked out details, but Masin said she intends to introduce legislation that would either ban or severely curtail the use of lead bullets for hunting."

--------------------------------------------

Not trying to offend any of you city folks but why is it everytime somebody from the metro like this Sandy Masin DFL-Eagan who lives on a lot in her $500,000 home, yties to make laws to infringe on my life up in the sticks?

This yahoo most likely has never fired a gun, never killed a deer and never eatin venison in her life but feels obligated to jump in and change a hunting law. Just maybe she should stick to trying to figure out how to get the state out of the RED! and let hunters deside weather or not we need such a law

 Quote
"Beth Siverhus has hunted deer since 1976, and for the first time next year she plans to use copper-coated bullets instead of lead."

 "Copper Coated"...Sorry, that statement right there shows the lack of knowledge they both have

 Copper Coated bullets are what we been shooting for years. Solid Copper bullets are what it should have said.

 There are only so many types of solid copper bullets that can be used and still have effective expanssion that will give a clean kill. Barns has a Pat. Nosler has a new solid copper bullet Pat. pending.

 So, what are other companys going to do to produce a solid copper bullet that works, yet doesn't infring on another companys Pat.

 This yahoo State Rep..hasn't even thought that far ahead

How about the person who has lots of ammuntion bought up?

or a the person who reloads his/her own ammunition and has 1000s of bullets on hand?

 Are we just supposed to throw all that ammo and componates away?

 This all started from the venison donation program. A program I was firmly against. IMO, our game isn't a source that should be used to feed the low income folks of our state. IMO, if you can't use all the venison you have shot..YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE SHOT IT. To hunt just to kill, take a picture for the office wall, then get rid of it....your hunting for the wrong reason IMO.

 Butchering our deer and making sausage, jerky or other great tasting things is as much a part of the hunt as the killing.

 I have a nieghbor who just got out of jail for drugs, theft, avading arrest, Etc. He just walked acoss the street to the local church and got his venison for FREE from the food shelf they opporate there.

 I had to buy a Lic, ammo and many, many other things to enjoy the taste of venison. I find that upsetting to say the least.

 I could go on and on, on this matter. I'm sure you get my point

Chuck
   

[mathews4ever]

Anybody that thinks that lead free ammunition should be mandatory is a moron. I don't care what anybody uses, but you sure as heck better not try and tell me what to run through my guns. We have been killing game for hundreds of years with lead ammunition without any ill effect. I have been eating venison since I was able to chew and I think it is pretty clear I am not dead. All it is, is just another way for the government to collect more tax revenue. Lead free ammo is 4X as much as conventional ammo and anybody that thinks that will change has probably had a lobotomy .


Just my 2cents. My heavily opinionated but 100% correct 2 cents.

[guythathunts]

This is what I just sent to her:

Sandra,

Why is it that you spend time on trying to ban lead ammunition when you hold a seat of power in one of the worst economic times in history? I don't want the "I work on lots of things though..." answer. I want you to think hard about what is important for the people. THE PEOPLE! If you want to "save" the Eagle... do it on your own time. not on mine. Tell your friends too.

Thank you!

[mathews4ever]

very nice response.

[Moving2thecountry]

I used an all copper muzzle loader bullet to kill a deer this year.  It did the trick, and left a nice exit whole.  It was only about 35 yards away.  But I don't believe it is right to force others to use copper bullets.

Don't the crows, coyotes, and other scavengers eat gut piles?  Don't eagles eat fish?  If more than an infinitesimal number of eagles are dying, wouldn't the more likely cause be lead lures, sinkers, and the like?  Certainly, more research is needed.

Regarding banning....I am against in the absence of evidence that the eagle population as a whole is threatened (as opposed to a few eagles).

Based on the North Dakota DNR/CDC study of lead levels in the blood of those who eat wild game, and the Minnesota DNR study on lead fragmentation in dead sheep, I do question the parenting skills of any hunter who feeds their children venison killed with lead bullets, though.  If you want to eat it, fine.  But don't give it to your children.  If your children ends up needing Chelation therapy to reduce his or her lead levels, the parents should be required to take parenting classes.

We have banned lead shot on federal land.  I use steel shot. Even if lead were not banned, I would probably use steel shot.  But that's me.  I suspect I am wounding more birds than I would if I were using lead shot. 

Also, the Minnesota DNR could do more to discuss scientific research and hypothetical risks in the regulations, and use reason to persuade more people to switch to copper jacketed or non-lead bullets. 

No need to pass a law....especially since this particular proposal is clearly part of a larger anti-gun strategy.

[beeker]

more children injest lead from their toys then they do from eating game. so now I wonder if you will question any parent giving their children toys? we've heard more about that in the last few years than we have about children eating lead tainted game.  lead isn't the issue here it's politicians trying to make guns an issue if they can't get our guns they will get our ammo. don't be a fool and get stuck in their moron trap.

[Bufflehead]

more children injest lead from their toys then they do from eating game. so now I wonder if you will question any parent giving their children toys? we've heard more about that in the last few years than we have about children eating lead tainted game.  lead isn't the issue here it's politicians trying to make guns an issue if they can't get our guns they will get our ammo. don't be a fool and get stuck in their moron trap.

AMEN! Brother

[Moving2thecountry]

more children injest lead from their toys then they do from eating game.

LOL.  My children don't eat toys, don't put toys in their mouth, and don't get cheap toys from China.  It is very difficult to find toys not made in China, but they do exist.  More parents should pay attention to such things, and teach their toddlers to not put toys in their mouths, and to wash their hands more.

[GRIZ]

The key words were when "she believes that's the cause of it" She doesn't know that, has no evidence. My 5 yr old believes in the tooth fairy too. Has no evidence but still believes cause the dollar is there.

Sounds more to me like the eagle has been eating alot of fish(older fatty type fish) that lived in water that naturally has a high lead level content.

Wished these politicians would quite playing ostrich. Only time they pull their head outta the sand is when they gotta fart.

[Auggie]

more children injest lead from their toys then they do from eating game.

LOL.  My children don't eat toys, don't put toys in their mouth, and don't get cheap toys from China.  It is very difficult to find toys not made in China, but they do exist.  More parents should pay attention to such things, and teach their toddlers to not put toys in their mouths, and to wash their hands more.

Every kid, from the time they can crawl will put anything they get their little fingers wrapped around in their mouth. Everything. Whether you tell them to or not.
The dead sheep test was a joke. Thousands of our tax dollars pissed away. Living tissue for one will respond differently to being struck by a bullet for starters, along with a host of other issues that can change from the real deal.
If people used the brains that God gave them, they wouldn't ingest enough lead from an animal they harvested to amount to  . Take some time when you butcher your animals. No need to regulate those of us that are not stupid enough to eat it.
Buffleheads post is right on the money. The donation program is a joke. Give the people FREE meat and they piss and moan about the lead. Screw them. Get off your ass and buy a license and go get your own. I have no problem donating the meat to a needy family I know REALLY needs it. More often than not we all know some one like that. But guess what? They are the first in line to help process the meat they will be getting. We didn't need a PROGRAM for this. I too am sick of the metro politician trying to tell me how I should "lead" my life.

[The General]

Isn't this the same lady who sponsored a bill for the "every kid gets a trophy"? 

[Moving2thecountry]

I certainly agree that no law is needed, at least not at this time.  Being the suspicious individual that I am, I think her proposal has more to do with anti-gun sentiment than a concern for Eagles.

As for donating meat, not me.  It's too good.  I'd rather donate money and keep the venison.  Again, being the suspicious individual that I am, I wonder if the donated deer are the ones killed with 7 shots while running, or if the butchers are just being sloppy.

If any of you want to donate some venison to my family, give me a PM, I'll butcher the whole thing myself.

[Auggie]

I certainly agree that no law is needed, at least not at this time.  Being the suspicious individual that I am, I think her proposal has more to do with anti-gun sentiment than a concern for Eagles.

As for donating meat, not me.  It's too good.  I'd rather donate money and keep the venison.  Again, being the suspicious individual that I am, I wonder if the donated deer are the ones killed with 7 shots while running, or if the butchers are just being sloppy.

If any of you want to donate some venison to my family, give me a PM, I'll butcher the whole thing myself.

Send me $80. I will buy 2 more tags. You will get 2 skinned and quartered deer in about a week. You can paypal my email address! I will donate my time, gas, equipment, lodging and meal cost, and of course the beer involved when we skin and quarter.

[HD]

Beer? Did you say beer?


I'm sorry, I wasn't keeping up with the thread.......I just seen the word BEER!          

[Stensethfan]

Polititians are what screwed this country up recently and in the past.  They spend too much time worrying about what kills eagles and who eats lead and blah, blah, blah instead of what really matters like corrupt business men who mess up our economy and an unregulated mortgage industry that also helped mess up the economy.  Once they start regulating the important things then we will have time to take a deeper look into where the lead is coming from that kills the eagles and what type of bullet should be used to havest game. 

...Hunter...I need a beer after reading this!

[Bufflehead]

Polititians are what screwed this country up recently and in the past.  They spend too much time worrying about what kills eagles and who eats lead and blah, blah, blah instead of what really matters like corrupt business men who mess up our economy and an unregulated mortgage industry that also helped mess up the economy.  Once they start regulating the important things then we will have time to take a deeper look into where the lead is coming from that kills the eagles and what type of bullet should be used to havest game. 

...Hunter...I need a beer after reading this!

AMEN BROTHER!!

[kenhuntin]

I wish you guys could stand back and hear what you are saying other than shooting from the hip.This has nothing to do do with taking away hunting priviledges but all to do with keeping them. Antis get wind that hunters are leaving poisonous lead fragments in gut piles which in turn poison Eagles and other animals and it is more tobacco in their pipe. We need to support alternative ammunition other than refute it. Man is put on earth in charge of all living things. I personally don't care for raptors but they have a place in the ecosystem. An x ray shows the tiniest piece of metal as a bright white on the film. The particles that were found in venison could have been cu or fe. Maybe it was only assumed lead. anyway the argument that people have been eating lead shot animals for hundreds of years without ill effects does not cut it to an anti. Here is a newsflash most all of them are dead. The argument that lead shot meat gets cut out and discarded to an anti is heard as I leave it in the bush for the Eagles. As well as wasted food. I have never had anyone process my game and am totally surprised at times to find a shiny piece of a bullet in a carcass well away from the main path of a bullet. A piece so small that it seems to weigh nothing. As for birds most of you can attest to the fact that you have cut away all the shot meat and somehow still bit into a lead pellet. I guarantee you this will not go away and sportsman need to stand behind anything that will protect all living things. It may be inconvenient but to have sportsman back an environmentally good effort may sway the remaining 80% of people that do not hunt or support peta in our direction. The democrats in power scare me. I know it is very hard for anyone to admit what they have doing all their lives is not the best way. Even if it has only been a short time. Just like in the field, make sure what is beyond your target before you pull the trigger.

[Bufflehead]

 Caving into the wants of anti's is not the path I want or support. Solid copper ammunition costs near 4 times what inexpensive lead ammunition costs. Just like exceedingly high priced non-toxic shot shells(Remington HD and the likes)

 If we continue to price people out of our sport...we just continue to loose pull with our elected, making it easier and easier for us to be picked off.

 IMO, it's just one more tactic to stop the hunting and the shooting sports.

Lic. cost, gas, a place to hunt, motels, equipment, Etc....all have went up and continue to go up. Many people I know who hunted and fished most of their life, are migrating to more affordable past times. I see WAY! too many cheering on hikes in Lic. fee's, stamps, Etc....IMO, those doing so...don't realize the damage they are cheering on...power comes in numbers and not in $$$$ numbers..people numbers

[Moving2thecountry]

We need to support alternative ammunition other than refute it.

I use all copper bullets and steel shot.  The copper bullets seem fine, and I do guess that I have wounded but not killed a couple of pheasants.  My dog has certainly recovered living but wounded pheasants that nobody in our hunting party shot--at least not on the day we recovered the bird.

I use non-toxic because I share the game with my young children.  So regardless of the law, this is the way I would go for some time. 

However, a few annecdotal cases of eagles doesn't make a case that the eagle population is in the least threatened.  Even if some eagles were dying from lead, unless it is affecting the population, nothing needs to be done.

And lead is a cheap and dense metal that is able to retain more engery than steel or copper.

If dense steel alloys and the like were cheaper than lead, and formed spherical shot, you wouldn't need any laws, as it is even more dense then lead.  I tried some heavy steel once--very expensive, dirty, and grossly distorted from spherical shot.  Nothing like throwing 100 curve balls when shooting a pheasant--if you like missing.  (I still have some--I should take a photograph and upload it.)

So, in short, I support non-toxic alternatives--but it is a choice.  Legal mandates based on a activist reports is not the way to go.

[beeker]

the problem is when people who have limited knowledge of a recreation try to jump in the middle of it and expect people to change because they have an issue with how it's done. or think they can do it better.  The treehuggers can all kiss it, I don't tell them what pink sweater to wear or what organic products to buy... but the treehuggers are not satisfied with doing their own thing they want to force everyone to be like them and except them... so until some or some organization that is reputable jumps into this arena and makes a suitable product that can stand in for lead I'm not going to bend over for em.. you bend over now, you'll be bent over long after you would care to be.