New conceal and carry law

[22lex]

Associated Press 

INTERNATIONAL FALLS, Minn. -- The chief ranger at Voyageurs National Park says park staff are wary of a rule change that will allow concealed weapons into the park next month.

On Dec. 5, the Bush administration said it was overturning a 25-year-old federal rule that severely restricts loaded guns in national parks.

As of Jan. 5, visitors will be able to carry a loaded gun into a park or wildlife refuge -- including Voyageurs in northern Minnesota -- if the person has a permit for a concealed weapon.

Hummel says the park staff is concerned about how the rule change will effect contact between park rangers, visitors and wildlife.

Groups of current and retired park service employees are on the record as being against the rule. They fear it will increase impulse killing of wildlife and put visitor and ranger safety at risk.

I really don't think it will affect Voyageurs as much as it will affect NP's out west. I have to assume this is geared towards cougar/grizzly/black bear encounters from other states.

[Benny]

One thing these people keep forgetting is that per capita there are few people who have a CCW permit vs those who don't and use the parks, and those that have this permit have taken a coarse on how NOT to have a confrontation.

I would bet that at any given time there are more illeagal hand guns in these parks than there are those with a permit.

I can understand thier concern, but I believe it will be unfounded just like when the state passed the law for us to get one with out being a business owner or a security officer.

Benny

[kawi]

One thing these people keep forgetting is that per capita there are few people who have a CCW permit vs those who don't and use the parks, and those that have this permit have taken a coarse on how NOT to have a confrontation.

I would bet that at any given time there are more illeagal hand guns in these parks than there are those with a permit.

I can understand thier concern, but I believe it will be unfounded just like when the state passed the law for us to get one with out being a business owner or a security officer.

Benny

You nailed it on the head, Benny!

[proangler16]

I totally agree with Benny's Statment too!!                   

[Finlander]

A friends wife just recently got her conceal and carry permit. This women has never had gun safety and she did not need it to take the course . After last summer with her at the gravel pit by my cabin , I will never allow her to be around me with a firearm again . She even got mad at me for telling her about her mistakes . She now carries that little pistol around with her everywhere and is no longer allowed at my home or cabin. She also still thinks it is OK to carry that thing with a round in the chamber.

[KTapper]

She also still thinks it is OK to carry that thing with a round in the chamber.

I understand it seems as though she has the certification but not the knowledge. I will be carrying fully loaded ready to go that is the point of carrying its ready to go if it hits the fan.

But if she is carrying it in her purse I would not leave one in the chamber unless it is safe to do so ie protected from accident discharge.

[Finlander]

Any revolver being carried on a loaded chamber is stupid and an accident waiting to happen !!! Don't get me wrong about the conceal and carry, I'm for it . Just not for anyone . Besides , I think the only time a round should be in the chamber of any gun is when your hunting wild game , not trouble. How are they going to know if its loaded ? How would you feel if your loaded gun went off and hurt someone ,let alone kill someone by accident because you wanted to be ready for it to hit the fan ? I have other friends who have this conceal and carry and that is not how they see it.

[beeker]

 the purposes of having the Concealed firearm is that when leathal force is needed you can use it. you don't pull it to "threaten" or "intimidate" or to load it. how often does a gun just "go off" usually it's an operator error that causes it to go off.

[KTapper]

Any revolver being carried on a loaded chamber is stupid and an accident waiting to happen !!! Don't get me wrong about the conceal and carry, I'm for it . Just not for anyone . Besides , I think the only time a round should be in the chamber of any gun is when your hunting wild game , not trouble. How are they going to know if its loaded ? How would you feel if your loaded gun went off and hurt someone ,let alone kill someone by accident because you wanted to be ready for it to hit the fan ? I have other friends who have this conceal and carry and that is not how they see it.

First off I wans't aware she was carrying a revolver! I would not have one in the chamber carrying one of those.

Second I carry a glock or an XD.. the glock is a safe action pistol with a trigger safety very safe. and the XD had a grip safety and another saftey. It really depends on the person I myself experienced and feel it is fine for me to carry it loaded. Its not like I will be taking it out and flawnting it. The holster covers up the trigger and cannot be pulled out very easy by someone other than me.

Third if the gun is not loaded and ready to go what good would it do you if you had someone threating your life and you only have enough time to draw and shoot..  We went through this in the permit to carry class and they all prefered to carry a loaded gun with one in the chamber. But I will agree with you it is personal preference.

Beeker you are 100% correct a gun is not to be used as something to settle and argument or to intimidate someone. Some people just aren't cut out to be carrying a weapon. There was a guy in my class that I was very worried about him being able to carry.

[Finlander]

It was not my intent for this to be an argument . The very rare and odd chance that your going to need a snap shot is so far out there that I don't think a round needs to be chambered. I know Glocks and how they work . I agree that they seem a lot safer . But there is always the chance of the gun being banged triggering an accidental discharge like what was taught in basic gun safety. It was just a point of view . SORRY !

[mnnate]

You both make very good points about carrying with/without one in the chamber and the concern of that round going off. When I took it we were showed several ways to carry and they recommended to carry one in the pipe. If you needed it the gun would be ready. There are techniques to rack the slide as you draw and I guess with enough practice that would be ok too. Practice is the key to carrying safely. I'm not sure if firearms training is needed when getting your permit. If it isn't it probably should be. Even if you are not going to hunt the knowledge gained about how to safely handle/clean/transport/operate firearms is HUGE. I had a couple people in my class as well that really didn't know what they were doing. Kind of scary.

Benny I agree with you 100% on that. I bet that there are more illegally carried weapons in Nat'l Parks than legal. There is quite a small process one must go about in getting a permit and I would say that 99.9% of people who carry will never cause a bit of trouble in the parks.

[KTapper]

It was not my intent for this to be an argument . The very rare and odd chance that your going to need a snap shot is so far out there that I don't think a round needs to be chambered. I know Glocks and how they work . I agree that they seem a lot safer . But there is always the chance of the gun being banged triggering an accidental discharge like what was taught in basic gun safety. It was just a point of view . SORRY !

I am also sorry just wanted to state my opinion and I also didn't know she had a revolver I wouldn't carry one in the chamber carrying those.

The glock will not fire from being dropped or banged they dropped them out of a helicopter it is impossible to get one to fire unless you pull the trigger. Its pretty cool they can do that I am not sure if the xd's are the same?

But yeah older type guns can go off from dropping and that is dangerous. My instructor was making a point in telling people don't carry and older firearm because its a collector or you inherited. They said just buy a newer modernized gun for carry and just collect and shoot the others at a range.

 Cheers Finlander