New rules for deer hunting?

[Lee Borgersen]

Saturday, February 23, 2008

Hook and Bullet Club - New rules for deer hunting?

by Nick Wognum, Ely Echo General Manager


Deer hunting may not come to mind unless you're opening a pack of Polish for dinner, but now's the time to pay attention to what the DNR is proposing. And, there is news locally involving the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association.

Deer Season Simplification

Following the new DNR line of "simpler is better," the rules for deer hunting are about to undergo some changes. A committee was formed of hunters from around the state and some recommendations were made.

They are:

License Consolidation

1. Eliminate the all-season deer and multi-zone buck licenses and allow people to purchase three stand-alone licenses (archery, firearm, muzzleloader).

2. Each license would come with one tag and bag limits would vary by permit area.

Zone Consolidation

1. Consolidate the number of zones from 6 to 2. The 2 new zones would be structured around the traditional 'A' season opener while still preserving the 3B season.

2. The 'A' season would have a standard opening date and varying closing dates based on permit area number (e.g., 100 series is 16 days). There would be one firearm license that would be valid for the 'A' season. A separate license would be valid for the 'B' (traditional 3B) season only.

3. Eliminate Zone 4 and place it into the 9 day season structure.

License Validation

1. Eliminate the license validation that was instituted during the 2006 Legislative session.

Regulations Book

1. Publish an abbreviated regulations book in the Hmong language.

2. Organize a small group of people to review the regulations book before it is published.

Deer Registration

1. Provide more flexibility with deer registration options.

Caliber Restrictions

1. Change cartridge regulation to centerfire .22 or larger diameter.

So what does all of that mean for our area?

First and foremost, no more all season license, instead you can buy any combination of archery, firearms and muzzleloader licenses.

You can still only shoot one buck but your options are better and this may actually save you some license fees. Instead of paying for three licenses and using two, you can just buy two. That's a good deal.

Zone consolidation doesn't affect us here and license validation was a ridiculous rule nobody followed anyway. As for the regulations book, good luck. Barring a complete rewrite and elimination of ads, it's still a long read.

The last two are very interesting. More flexibility in deer registration could lead to phone registration. That's right, no more loading up your deer and driving to town to register it. Pick up your cell, phone in the info to an automated system, get your number and start cutting.

Minnesota is actually in front of the pack when it comes to registration with the electronic license system. Other states still use a mail-in registration system that can take months to process. Adding a phone registration seems to make sense and should be beneficial.

The caliber change is one where guys have to read the fine print: Centerfire .22 or larger. No, you will not be able to use your .22 rimfire. This is for .223 and up but centerfire only.

Public input meetings will be held around the state, including from 6-9 p.m. on March 6 at the Aurora Community Center.

Interested individuals who cannot attend the meeting are urged to e-mail comments to wildlife@dnr.state.mn.us.

[jkcmj]

If a person does not understand the language enough to read the rule books, then they should not be hunting in our woods.  This is America, an English speaking nation.  We should not be pandering to every ethnic culture.  They are in the U.S.  and they should learn the language before they are allowed to partake in the benefits of living in this nation.  What is next, Spanish, Ethiopian, French, German, Somalia, etc....

[ku-tech]

If a person does not understand the language enough to read the rule books, then they should not be hunting in our woods.  This is America, an English speaking nation.  We should not be pandering to every ethnic culture.  They are in the U.S.  and they should learn the language before they are allowed to partake in the benefits of living in this nation.  What is next, Spanish, Ethiopian, French, German, Somalia, etc....

hey dont want to be rude or anything but I'm Hmong and i think its a great idea for them to publish the book in any language, because not all people who live in America speaks English and beside what if they love the sport and cant speak English or read English. all they want to do learn the rules n be safe.

[Randy Kaar]

thanks for the input ku-tech, this could be a informative
thread. question for you.. not just pointing at the hmong
population, do the non english speaking people have to take
a gun safety or hunting education course?
thanks

randy aka bh

[kenhuntin]

I am all for the "One Nation under God with Liberty and Justice for All"
                    Too many cooks spoil the soup.
 The Information needs to be disseminated to all and preservation of our natural resources as well. It is costly to do this in several Languages.
   If someone wishes to partake in an outdoor event it should be by the law of the land. And it is everyones obligation to personally understand the regulations. Whether they can read or not.
  I feel there is a great responsibility on the shoulders of all individuals to understand the rules.
 I am not anti Hmong rather I applaud them for being avid sportsmen. The transition from subsistence gathering to sporting must be tough.

[Cody Gruchow]

i do not like the call in registration...i think there could possibly be alot of problems. due to some ppl could lie and etc...yeah i shoot a doe, (and really shot a buck) now im going to shoot another buck. stuff like that for the non honest ppl that call themselves sportsman.

[ku-tech]

thanks for the input ku-tech, this could be a informative
thread. question for you.. not just pointing at the hmong
population, do the non english speaking people have to take
a gun safety or hunting education course?
thanks

randy aka bh
[/quote

just gun safety, i know that there is a hmong gun safrty class that teach in hmong and english. i dont think non english speaking people have to take a hunting education. im pretty sure they learn that from their relatives.

[rem]

sounds like they want more deer wounded? what good comes from the smaller guns?????

[Cody Gruchow]

have these rules taken affect. the all season lisence is a good idea but the smaller caliber is gonna cause problems and the phone regestration is gonna be a problem. hmmm i wonder how they come up with some of these ideas

[jkcmj]

The 22 caliber centerfire cartridges would make an excellent deer hunting round and would not be a problem.  Study the ballistic reports and test fire them and you'll find them more than adequit.  Were not talking moose, elk, or bear here. 

In registering over 50 deer I have never once had someone ask to look at one.  I could have lied on the sex of every one of them.  Phone registration would be easier for the hunter and require less carcass hauling in public, which tends to offend some people.   

[deadeye]

I think most of these changes would be good.  I do think there will be a surge in muzzle loader hunters if enacted.  Now you must buy an all season license for $76.00 if you want to hunt both gun and muzzle loader. 

[Cody Gruchow]

hmm i dunno about the .223 but the .243 is as small as we allow on our hunting grounds. if there is anything smaller than i give them one of mine to use. well i agree some places dont look at the deer, but were i register my deer every single time someone came out to look and make sure. so i guess it depends on the place and how lazy some ppl are. as for the carcass's in public, hmm well i agree it does offend some ppl but they need to deal with it i think, such as maybe have the deer weight in station at the back of the registration station and register them at the back but not the phone, this is just my opinions.

[GRIZ]

A couple things come to mind.

I think it's a good thing they get rid of the all season lic. I can't believe they will as they will lose so much money. It made it too easy for people to buy one lic and get 3 tags. If they have to buy 3 licenses and be ableto tag one deer unless they are in an area that allows more they will not buy the extra licenses IMO. With 3 tags all they have to do is lie on where and how they got'em, which is easy to do. 95% of registration stations don't look at the deer anyhow.

The deal with allowing 22 caliber centerfire prolly isn't a good idea. Not that they aren't capable of it. It's just that too many people will use them because it's legal. It's not the gun I'm worried about not being capable, it's the hunter that I'm worried won't be capable. Alot of states allow the 22 mag rimfire for big game, it's all shot placement. A 22 centerfire is does very well at dropping deer on the spot at distances out to and a bit further than 300 yds. It's up to the hunter to make a shot or pass. I think too many would take a shot when they should have passed.

With registering over the phone, what's the difference. I know of one place that looks at ur deer and that's because they are deer hunters and just want to see what ya got. Most of the places where ya register have some kid behind the till who don't give a hoot about the deer. They just want to do the paper work right so they don't get in trouble. A person could lie to those kids just as easy as the telephone.

I say change them all. People are still going to lie on the registration. Idiots will still take shots they shouldn't. The DNR won't sell as many licenses so be prepared for a jump in lic fees. That's my $.02 and I'll bet more than that I'm pretty close.

[Fiasco]

My only concern is about the license consolidation. One thing I like about the all season is that I can hunt in any zone (except those specifically excluded). If I want to bow hunt near my home in the early season and then hunt up north in the late season, the all season license lets me do it. I wouldn't be able to do that if I had to purchase separate licenses. It would save money in that I've usually filled my tags by muzzleloader season but I still want the geographic flexibility.

[deadeye]

I'm all for the simplification aspect.  Last year it took two weeks and several calls to the DNR by myself and the store selling the license before we got mine straightened out.

[GRIZ]

The way I understand it you would still be able to go bow hunting and still hunt up north. Just have to buy 2 lic. One for bow and one for the area you hunt. I think they feel allowing people to migrate from one slug zone to the next rifle zone is getting abuse in the registration of the deer. Rightfully so it is. People don't even deny it, in fact some even brag about it.

[Cody Gruchow]

well i buy the all season license every year because i have so much flexibility on were i can hunt with it. i guide for pheasants during the deer season at a private hunting club in victoria and that makes it very difficult for me to make it up to my traditional hunting camp up by park rapids, but my boss is kind enough to let me off for 2 days to make it up there, i also slug hunt around victoria, and bow hunting at the same place.i hunt maybe 3 different areas for deer thoughout the entire season. now i dont want to lose that flexibility. i hunt bow and slug around victoria and i hunt 2 different areas by park rapids. i dont brag about this and i never take more than 2 deer a year anyway. so i think they should maybe keep the all season but just cut the tags down to 1 buck and 1 doe, or maybe make just one tag and make it an either sex tag (in certain permited areas of course)

[tripnchip]

Lets face it, no matter how the regs are written those that want to cheat on them are going to find a way to do it. I agree tha if the all season is droped we can look for another raise in the lic. fee's due to loss revenue from the all season. As for the phone registration. It is true that in alot maybe most plasces the people do not look at the deer. I wont speak for other areas but when you get into the rual areas there is normaly only one person working the store, gas station or what ever. When registration first started they were required to go look at the deer, so came the problem of the store  getting ripped off well he was out checking a deer. So buisness owners said they would not leave their store unattended to go look at a deer. Can you blame them? I think they get somthing like $1.00 for selling lic. and regerstration, as a buisness owner would you pay someone min. wage to come set and wait for a deer to come in to be registered?  Most of these business people are doing the registration as a cuortusy to us hunters, yes they may get a little extra buisness out of it but not near enough to pay for another employee or to make up for the theft they suffered well their only employee was out looking at a deer. No I don't own a buisness, just live in a small enough area to understand where the buisness owner is coming from. I don't know about you but I like being able to stop on my way home to register a deer rather then waiting till the next day when the dnr office is open and driving another 40 miles to get there. Phoning in the registration will just make it easier for those that are already lying and may tempt even more to do the same.NOw the quistion is who is going to anwer the phone to register the 100 and some thousand deer that are taken. Is it going to be the present dnr employees, I don't think so. So how meny more employees will have to be hired, say from Sept. to Dec. 31. Where is the money going to come from for their wages?
  The 223, hmm off the top of my head I would say no, but to be fare i would realy have to look at the down range balistics and energy. Also what kind of bullets manufactors have come up with to handle 200 lb game.
  just to meny of my thughts

[JohnWester]

i think getting rid of the all-season license sucks.  I bow, rifle and muzzleloader hunt and it's easier just having one license.  I see nothing but problems with this.
Also, it's my understanding that if you buy a license, you can hunt anywhere in the state, if you follow the rules of that current zone.  They ask where you are going to hunt when you purchase, but that's just so they get some sort of idea where guys(and gals) go.  It doesn't mean you are stuck hunting in that one spot.  I specifically asked this because I hunt up by cass lake and by forest lake... I use my muzzle loader during rifle/slug season down here in the slug zone, and the 700 up north.  And I don't see anything in the language of this that says you can't continue to do that.

[tripnchip]

Hunting anywhere in the state is my understanding to (with all season) john. Unless you plan to take a doe, then i think you have to go by the zone you picked. But this wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, or would it. lol But by buying bonus tag for zone you want to hunt you can move to a different zone as long as you have a valid lic. Now does that mean a valid lic. for the current season or a lic. that the buck tag hasn't been used yet? I take it to mean current season. I always buy the all season because i have bros that live accross the hwy from each other and the hwy is the zone line.

[Super Star!]

they need to do a lot more than just change the lic.. they need to change the season... shoot more does have a size limit on bucks that can be taken. maybe even a lottery draw on bucks. that will give the smaller ones you see everyone shooting a chance to grow.

i dont know if that is the right thing but something needs to be done...

as far as the book if you cant read english or speak it pack your bags and get out. We dont need you in the woods haveing flash backs of Nam..........if we go to your country what do you do for us??  nothing but tell us to leave and how much you hate americans..

as far as the zone or area.. not to many people go by that..the guns dropping it so you can use a .223 yeah im fine with that but your ganna have some tool out there trying to shoot a deer at 600 yards with his hopped up .223....and it will probly be me lol.....

well just my two pennies

[kenhuntin]

I hope the all season never goes away I have good friends that it is great to hunt with in Roseau Anoka,Pope and Itasca counties. And yes I did the last two years. I feels great to live in a free country and was elated when they implemented that license.

[Super Star!]

i always buy the all season to but i would give that up for a better management plan or season..

[Benny]

I know this has came up before,but I couldn't find a link to the discussion.

While at the SW yesterday the sales man was telling people that we can no longer carry our CCW gun while big game hunting.

I know we can't use it to shoot deer, but I thought it was still legal  to carry the weapon??

Has any one found an answer from an official DNR represintative??

Benny

[tripnchip]

Benny, my understanding from talking with local CO. You can carry a handgun of leagal cal. when rifle hunting, but not conceled. When in transport it must be cased. Now if you are shining deer during leagle hrs.the law reads(last time i read it)no weapons in vehicle. If you are archery deer hunting no fire arms on you. You can carry a handgun when bear hunting, not sure if they have a cal.limit on that or not.
 Realy Benny, it would be better if you gave the dnr a call yourself, nothing like talking to the source itself.
  Realy why worry about it when your already carring a loaded shotgun or rifle?