Last week wolves, this week a cougar

[Moving2thecountry]

This week I found a cougar tracks over fawn tracks.  Didn't see any deer, other than the deer that were right were I parked, and on the way to the public land.  Oh well.  Next year....

[22lex]

Were the cougar tracks outside the VFW in Champlin? 

All kidding aside, did you take a pic of the tracks? What part of the state was it?

[Moving2thecountry]

No photos.  But they looked like http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living/graphics/cougar5.jpg no claws slightly smaller.  It was North of Duluth.

[Go Big Red!]

Were the cougar tracks outside the VFW in Champlin? 

All kidding aside, did you take a pic of the tracks? What part of the state was it?

I love that place....   

No photos.  But they looked like http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living/graphics/cougar5.jpg no claws slightly smaller.  It was North of Duluth.

Didn't someone in the Duluth or Floodwood area have a cougar on trail camera last winter or the one prior?  I think I remember reading it some where.   

[Mayfly]

So here is a question. Why will the DNR not acknowledge the existence of a population of cougars here in MN. I was with some people tonight that have pictures of tracks from this past week. I have been hearing people talk about this for years and there has been many eye witness accounts of these animals here in the state. Is the population so low that they cannot count or trap or get significant data to acknowledge their existence here in the state? Just not sure what the answer is and would like to know.

[kenhuntin]

 They do not want to be innundated with phone calls and have freightened neighborhoods If they announce a cougar is in the vicinity. It is true that alot of Mn. lion sightings are bobcat ,lynx or some mutt dog. Mountain lions are almost completely nocturnal when they do their hunting.  It is extremely difficult to estimate a population when they winter and summer in different locations. They range a great distance compared to deer. Unless you run past one hiding behind or in a tree in the dark you are pretty safe from them.

[22lex]

So here is a question. Why will the DNR not acknowledge the existence of a population of cougars here in MN. I was with some people tonight that have pictures of tracks from this past week. I have been hearing people talk about this for years and there has been many eye witness accounts of these animals here in the state. Is the population so low that they cannot count or trap or get significant data to acknowledge their existence here in the state? Just not sure what the answer is and would like to know.

I would have to say that the population is so low it isn't considered a breeding population. There have been numerous sightings down here, and two verified trailcam pictures from different people I know over the years that I have actually seen, but they don't seem to stick around long enough to stay in a territory. My theory is that they just keep moving east until they hit the bluffs near the Old Miss (which are probably better suited for them), or get across the river and head to areas that are less habitated than SEMN. It's not that they don't have the habitat, it's just there are so many hunters down here, and people that do things with their land that if there was a population they would be sighted more often. My other theory is that they are just wanderers from other states (SD) and they just keep roaming without finding a mate, or a few are released from captivity.

Up north in the vast expanses of public/national forest, it's probably a different story.

[Moving2thecountry]

So here is a question. Why will the DNR not acknowledge the existence of a population of cougars here in MN. I was with some people tonight that have pictures of tracks from this past week. I have been hearing people talk about this for years and there has been many eye witness accounts of these animals here in the state. Is the population so low that they cannot count or trap or get significant data to acknowledge their existence here in the state? Just not sure what the answer is and would like to know.

I don't get this, though I often hear it.  MN has a closed season on cougars.  As far as I know, you can legally hunt wild elephant in MN. 

I am not sure they are in denial.  What more do you want them to do?

[GRIZ]

The DNR doesn't ackownledge them because they can't gather any info about them. The population is that low yet it is a breeding population. It has been a breeding population for over 20 yrs. Over 20 yrs ago a litter of 2 were raised north of cokato in a field culvert. DNR was there and verified it even. Yet they don't acknowledge it. the only reason I can think of is they don't have any info. How could they get it either spend lots and lots of money or just take them off the protected list. They don't want to do either. One would cost too much and the other would involve killing something they really don't want to remove.

[Moving2thecountry]

My understanding is that they doubt that there is a breeding population, that the cougars we have are wanderers.  I think we probably have a breeding population, considering I saw one about 9 years ago, and saw tracks last year and this year, all within the same 20 mile area.

[mahmoodmahi]

One of the motivations, I think is that if the dnr acknowledges that there is a breeding population of cougars in MN then they have to create a management plan for them. This entails, apart from spending money, designating habitat worthy of protection and adjusting land use rules in some places, which then leads to conflict. So as long as the population is low enough where they can claim that there is not enough evidence to officialy say there is an established population, they won't. It has only recently been admitted by the dnr that there is a breeding population of canadian lynx, for years they claimed the only lynx in minnesota where occasional wonderers from canada. Now that they have admitted that there are lynx, they have to spend money making sure they are protected. So it really isn't in the DNR's intrest to admit to having resident cougars, and until people start seeing them a lot more, or there is a way to make money off the population, they will keep things the way they. So much of conservation and outdoors regulation has to do with what is politically expedient, and cougars are really just a headache in waiting. Having said that, all it takes is one wildlife biologist and a couple grad students to spend a few years proving that there is a breeding population of cougars in MN, to force the issue. So if anyone wants this done, start  raising money for a research grant.

[Joe@deerhunters]

Mahmoodmahi,

You are probably not that far off in regards to what happens after a species which may fall under some sort of lising (threatend, species of concern or endangerd) is found populating an area.

I thought the lynx deal was via the US fish and wildlife service (FEDS) as far as getting listed as species of concern. MNDNR for years considered them a casual species that cycled with the hare population.

[Mayfly]

mahmoodmahi -

I think you hit the nail right on the head! And considering that I am with the DNR!! Cougar?? No.. not here in mn 

[22lex]

One of the motivations, I think is that if the dnr acknowledges that there is a breeding population of cougars in MN then they have to create a management plan for them. This entails, apart from spending money, designating habitat worthy of protection and adjusting land use rules in some places, which then leads to conflict. So as long as the population is low enough where they can claim that there is not enough evidence to officialy say there is an established population, they won't. It has only recently been admitted by the dnr that there is a breeding population of canadian lynx, for years they claimed the only lynx in minnesota where occasional wonderers from canada. Now that they have admitted that there are lynx, they have to spend money making sure they are protected. So it really isn't in the DNR's intrest to admit to having resident cougars, and until people start seeing them a lot more, or there is a way to make money off the population, they will keep things the way they. So much of conservation and outdoors regulation has to do with what is politically expedient, and cougars are really just a headache in waiting. Having said that, all it takes is one wildlife biologist and a couple grad students to spend a few years proving that there is a breeding population of cougars in MN, to force the issue. So if anyone wants this done, start  raising money for a research grant.

This is exactly what a DNR friend of mine said about the cougar. It's not in their/our best interest to verify or confirm a breeding population. They aren't going make a season for them if they do verify the population, then what do you do after you confirm their existence? Bring in biologists from out west to study the 14 cougars that are in the state? Set up cougar traps? Re-locate them? Seems like a big waste of doo-doo to me if it were to happen.

Best to be left alone, and use the SSS rule if you or your animals are ever threatened by one.