Gun Shy

[Jeremy (Yeti)]

Anyone have good tricks for breaking a gun shy dog?  Great dog and good hunter until the gun goes off then shes shaking and just wants to get back to the truck.  Any ideas?

[Mayfly]

I think its just conditioning. You need to get her around it more. Take her to the range and play her favorite game of fetch in the parking lot. Take her squirrel hunting and bring the kids to play with her, just be sure to shoot a lot of squirrels or at least shoot at a lot of them  The more gun fire with the comforts of home surrounding her the better off she'll be. It will just take some time. Thats all I have for ya! Good luck! 

[Go Big Red!]

Start with a cap gun.  Cheap to shoot and can be shot indoors while she is eating, playing, etc.  Increase the noise and bring her up slowly.

Good luck.

[beeker]

gun shy... get a new dog and let the kids have the old one as a house dog. my buddy's dog is gun shy and every year he drags that thing with and every year she goes hides under the truck with the first gun shot, doesn't matter what he does or what he try's nothing has worked.

[snow]

Thats a tuff deal to break,all to often I see guys pull up to the range with a young pup,some even walk right up to the firing line,not the smartest thing to do.

Remember,lots of new things goin on in this big world for him/her.

It would be best to start from the begining,start out easy with a pellet gun keeping the pup close by tied up,maybe put her food bowl out and toss a few milk bones over and keep shooting,if she does'nt freak and seems calm go to phase 2,the cap gun,get the pup retrieveing,throw the bumper,as the pup is on his way fire the cap gun,if he wavers at all keep sending him on the retrieve/fetch,make a big deal outof the retrieve when he comes back,always positive reinforcment in the field,next step same thing oonly use a .22 blank,then the shotgun starting at a distance,works best with two people.

Just a few thoughts,remember baby steps with the youngster~

[beeker]

maybe I missed it.. how old is the dog?

[Jeremy (Yeti)]

She is about a year and a half.

[kcarder]

You can break the dog of being gun shy but you need to quit shooting around the dog for right now.  The thing that you need to do is get the dog out in the field on birds and leave the gun in the truck.  You didn't say what kind of dog it is but it doesn't matter.  If it is a flushing dog you need to just let it get out and flush birds like you are hunting.  If it is a pointing dog you need to let it get out and point birds, you flush em and either type of dog just let em fly away.  When the dog finds a bird you need to praise the dog lots.  Only after the dog is completely jacked up on birds can you start making noise around the dog (read many trips to a game farm or on birds from a pen on your property if you have it).  Once the dog is jacked up you can then move to a cap gun or primer pistol.  When the bird flushes you let the dog give chase and once it is away and chasing the bird you can then fire the blank pistol (give the dog some room and make sure they are at least 20 to 30 yards away before you fire).  Progressively and slowly work up to where you can fire the pistol within 5 to 10 yards when the bird flushes.  Once you have accomplished this you can then move on to the shotgun following the same steps as the pistol and constantly praising the dog.

The mistake that people make is they use firecrackers or take a dog to the gun range and tie it up to a fence post or to their truck.  All this does is create anxiety and stress on the dog.  Some people get away with it but many don't. 

I have seen many dogs ruined by people not knowing how to introduce gunfire to a dog.  Much of it from bad advice from others.  I have also seen many of those same dogs sent to a trainer to get fixed using the above method and turned out to be a good hunter.  Just be aware that it is going to take lots of time and money.  If you want the name of someone that can fix it for you let me know and I can recommend someone to you.  If you have any further questions I would be glad to answer them.

[Jeremy (Yeti)]

Thanks kcarder!  The dog in question is a german shorthair and I would definitely be interested in getting help from a trainer if you have the contact info please forward it on.  You can either send it to my email jeremyj@wanzek.com or just post it on MNO.  Thanks again.

You can break the dog of being gun shy but you need to quit shooting around the dog for right now.  The thing that you need to do is get the dog out in the field on birds and leave the gun in the truck.  You didn't say what kind of dog it is but it doesn't matter.  If it is a flushing dog you need to just let it get out and flush birds like you are hunting.  If it is a pointing dog you need to let it get out and point birds, you flush em and either type of dog just let em fly away.  When the dog finds a bird you need to praise the dog lots.  Only after the dog is completely jacked up on birds can you start making noise around the dog (read many trips to a game farm or on birds from a pen on your property if you have it).  Once the dog is jacked up you can then move to a cap gun or primer pistol.  When the bird flushes you let the dog give chase and once it is away and chasing the bird you can then fire the blank pistol (give the dog some room and make sure they are at least 20 to 30 yards away before you fire).  Progressively and slowly work up to where you can fire the pistol within 5 to 10 yards when the bird flushes.  Once you have accomplished this you can then move on to the shotgun following the same steps as the pistol and constantly praising the dog.

The mistake that people make is they use firecrackers or take a dog to the gun range and tie it up to a fence post or to their truck.  All this does is create anxiety and stress on the dog.  Some people get away with it but many don't. 

I have seen many dogs ruined by people not knowing how to introduce gunfire to a dog.  Much of it from bad advice from others.  I have also seen many of those same dogs sent to a trainer to get fixed using the above method and turned out to be a good hunter.  Just be aware that it is going to take lots of time and money.  If you want the name of someone that can fix it for you let me know and I can recommend someone to you.  If you have any further questions I would be glad to answer them.

[kcarder]

Call Don Erlandson at Captains Kennels.  If you take him to his place he can put the dog on his pen raised quail that he uses for training to set up a situation to see what is wrong with the dog and tell you right then and there if it is something he can fix at no cost to you.  He will be honest and tell you if it is worth fixing or not.  I have seen several dogs that he had come in for being gun shy that he fixed.  He even has one that he decided that he wanted to keep.  The dogs name is Otis and is a great hunting dog.  I have hunted with that dog in ND with Don the last two years.  No sign of being gun shy now.  If anyone can fix your pup he can.

[kcarder]

Forgot to post the number

Don Erlandson
715-488-2217

Tell Him that Kent sent you.  He's a really good guy.

[Jeremy (Yeti)]

Will do.  Thanks again.

[thunderpout]

Kcarder is right on.... starting a pup on gunfire is a different animal, but yeah, never introduce a report to a dog unless its done with the connection to birds... that in a nutshell really explains it all if one thinks about it.  When its a puppy, its just loud noises when eating/playing etc. .... But save the report/gunfire part for when you have birds..... pigeons are cheap!  and you can buy a few hundred pigeons for what it will cost to break a gun shy dog with the help of a trainer.  Yeti, a good trainer will have the time and the knowlege to do it right, and you have a young dog.... but you will be basically starting over, and going in baby steps, and not progressing till your dog is ready to move on.  Like Kcarder said... first step get the dog birdy again and not relating the "bird part" to gunfire at all.... then its all about baby steps starting with a small cap gun and moving up when the dog is ready to, and its only done with birds so it relates the report to a bird flushing.... good luck!  Being its a young dog, I think the chances are pretty good you can turn it around if you put in the time and are patient.

[Jeremy (Yeti)]

Thanks for the info thunderpout.  I planning on setting something up with a trainer this spring and I'm not ready to give up on this dog yet, she has a great nose and points on birds just fine until the guns go off.  Thanks again and have a great rest of the week.

[Moving2thecountry]

After reading books on the subject, for my dog I just bought a starter pistol, and fired it behind my back while playing fetch.  Fire it while the dummy is going through the air.  I had already been playing fetch with her for about one or two months before I started this, using positive reinforcement.  She loved retrieving, and only looked back at the loud sound, and saw me happily telling her to fetch, so she did.  Eventually fire it in front of you, then go to something even louder.  She's not gun shy at all now.  But I started this training at 6 to 9 months (can't remember).  Avoid fireworks before training, though.  Main thing to do is make training fun when they are puppies (sort of like making learning fun for your children when they are young).

[FCSpringer]

Jeremy, we do a similar style of training as said by kcarder. We have a training club full of many many years of knoledge. We welcome any one to come and train we all help eachother out. And can help as well if you live in MN and want to come out. It is free. We have pros, National winners,hall of fame breeders and many champion owners in our club. The way described is close to how we do it and have never had a dog shy from a gun, ever. Let me know if it would interest you to come out. It is a great time. We shoot for one another and have birds available, pigeons and pheasants. They are cheap. It is like pheasant hunting year round.

[redbull135]

my dog loves tennis balls so to get her use to it i would play fetch with her after about five min I would shot a starter pistol in the air after I threw it worked out good then I would shot the shotgun after a couple weeks did not phase her one bit but the problem I have now is soon as she sees the gun she brings a ball. I also used that tennis ball trick to get her in the water worked great. so if the dog has a toy she/he loves give that a try. My last dog ran away on me when my neighbor lite a bunch of fireworks off 2 years ago bad idea

[thunderpout]

The thing with a ball or a dummy is the dog isnt relating the report of the gun to a bird flushing,(for retriever training later on, dummies work great, but this is introducing the dog to shot) most dogs, when brought up on birds as puppies before a gunshot is ever introduced, will not have gunshy issues.... its when we try to take shortcuts (not using birds) that things get screwed up.... Use real birds from the start, and the dog will LOVE gunshots (and will drool at the sound of a gun going off... ) and there's no issues.... Yeah Ive heard the fireworks deal, and there's the "lets fire off a round behind Rover's back & see if he's gunshy" mentality.   What do ya think is gonna happen?   Let's see.... no birds around.... hmmmm........    BLAM!!!  What the heck was that & why did that gun go off for no aparent reason?

[kcarder]

The thing with a ball or a dummy is the dog isnt relating the report of the gun to a bird flushing,(for retriever training later on, dummies work great, but this is introducing the dog to shot) most dogs, when brought up on birds as puppies before a gunshot is ever introduced, will not have gunshy issues.... its when we try to take shortcuts (not using birds) that things get screwed up.... Use real birds from the start, and the dog will LOVE gunshots (and will drool at the sound of a gun going off... whistling) and there's no issues.... Yeah Ive heard the fireworks deal, and there's the "lets fire off a round behind Rover's back & see if he's gunshy" mentality. Doah Scratch  What do ya think is gonna happen? banghead  Let's see.... no birds around.... hmmmm........    BLAM!!!  What the heck was that & why did that gun go off for no aparent reason? Scratch banghead

All of this that thunderpout said is correct.  There is NO dog that is born gun shy.  The only gun shy dogs are those that are made that way.  Some dogs have more potential to be a great hunter than others due to breeding but I have never seen one that was gun shy due to breeding.  I have seen some that are timid, some that are softer when corrected, some that are really stubborn, but never one that was born gun shy.  It is all introduction the correct way using as close to a real life situation as possible (Birds) without putting too much pressure on the dog.

If you want the dog to get excited about a ball or a throwing dummy whenever they see a gun use a ball or a dummy (if you are gonna hunt balls or dummies?).  (Actually dummy hunting sounds fun, I know of a few dummies in life that I would nominate ) .  If you want them love to hunt birds, to have lots of bird drive, and be up to their best breed potential, use birds along with slow introduction to gunfire with birds in the situation. 

You have to remember that the dog never knew what a gunshot was until you put the dog into the situation to hear one.  It only takes ONE second (literally) to screw a dog up enough that you will have weeks if not months of fixing it.  Sometimes it is one step forward and two steps back with training.  Sometimes you get trained as well.  The biggest thing is that if the dog has bird drive and a desire to hunt then the dog can be fixed but you must take it slow and let them see lots of birds before they ever see or hear another gun go off!!!!!!

One more thing a little off of the specific topic that I have been guilty of and I know that others have as well.  If you ever get frustrated with the dog or even with yourself while training stop right then.  You won't get anywhere by pushing ahead.  You will most likely take those two steps back (dont ask me how I know).  If you watch some of the best trainers out there they are very even keeled, not too excitable about anything, and take things slow not taking any shortcuts on the way.

[thunderpout]

Good point kcarder refering to the owner/trainer "high expectation level" we put on ourselves and especially on our dogs (I know very well how to take two steps back )when I got my first Setter I was determined to have the best self trained English Setter ever to wreak havok in the woods...  I ate, slept, read and watched everything I could get my hands on to try and make my first bird dog a great one... well intended, BUT, by expecting so much out of my puppy, I took alot of fun out of the training (for my dog, not me ) and thats a big mistake.... doing everything the right way, but nearly screwing things up by my want for that high caliber bird dog.   I had this schedule in my head, and plowed thru all the stages needed for a pointing dog, and would get ticked off at both my puppy, and myself when things werent going as well as planned.  Long story short, That first bird dog turned out to be my best all-around bird dog... but his only fault was that if you pushed him too much, he'd rebel some, if hunting wasnt fun, his heart wouldnt be in it fully....  I took the fun out of training sometimes when the puppy wouldnt grasp something I wanted him to.  Your exactly right kcarder, at that point in the training outing you need to call it a day, back off(dont get ticked off) and come back at it another day....I learnned alot from tjhat first dogHavent made that mistake again....this really isnt off topic because taking shortcuts with the introducing the dog to shot it is always the trainers fault, and is from not having the patience to go about doing it the right way(with birds) or just not knowing how to go about it.... its a very common problem.... and not the easiest to reverse.  Its way easier to do it right the first time.

[kcarder]

I was determined to have the best self trained English Setter ever to wreak havok in the woods...  I ate, slept, read and watched everything I could get my hands on to try and make my first bird dog a great one... well intended, BUT, by expecting so much out of my puppy

   I had a very similar experience with my first Gordon Setter.  She was absolutely BIRD CRAZY I ended up putting too much pressure on the new pup.  Then I went to a different extreme and gave her too much leeway when I realized I screwed up.  Well to make a long story short I messed up enough stuff that she started flash pointing and busting birds.  That was no fun to get fixed, I tried and tried every tip and technique I could read about, watch on a video, or ever heard about.  I couldn't get it straightened back out and needless to say that is how I came across the trainer Don Erlandson.  She finally turned out to be a great dog.