2 Whistles?

[BirddogBenelli]

This may be a dumb question, but why do I always see people with their bird dogs have 2 whistles to train with?  Sorry, just haven't been able to grasp this concept.  Thanks.

[Tami]

I use 2
I have trained Hunter to act on whistle commands...

The whistles are for diff things

1 is distance
2 is weather, clear or fog, raining
3 heavy cover
Beadless: to come, release, or retrieve and directional signals. Beaded: for down, stop or whoa.
and so on

here is a site , and the whistles i own

http://www.gundogsupply.com/roygonwhisan.html
it does explain the reasons why having a few...

hope that helps

NG

[thunderpout]

I know ya need em for waterfowling, trials etc but man, when Im grouse hunting, it just bums me out hearin the guys wailing on whistles, and I know not all dogs respond to, or will pay attention to hand signals, but when I hear people usin em, I head the opposite direction.... I picture birds headin for the hills, or diggin in deep like a parade was comming down the trail....

[Tami]

I use them for grouse hunting....

It doesn't scare the birds either

sorry it burns you.....

what i hate to hear  is hearing 3-5 shots going off.. if you need that many shots to kill a grouse then you better go to target practice...

[thunderpout]

Yeah thats even worse, makes ya wonder what they're doin...usually yer lucky to get one or two shots off, and I'm pretty quick... I guess they're trimming trees, mostly... But one question Northern Gal, how do you know it doesnt scare em?

[thunderpout]

And I guess I dont mean scare em as much as I mean make em very aware that yer there?..... Im thinking it does as they usually dont hear whistles goin thru the woods and then nothing bad happens bad becomes of it, for them.... though you'll bump into some dumb birds, it doesnt take long for them to figure things out, and if they dont, its usually a fatal mistake for em....

[Tami]

I don't know about anyone else.. but it has never scared any grouse for me.. they sit there looking at you wondering what the noise is..
Hunter sits, heels at my side if i see one and stop to take aim, he doesn't go off till i tell him to, and he brings it back holding it till i take it from him..

When hes flushing brush, he knows to flush one way and then when i tell him he moves to the other side, and when i tell him, he sits and stays till i dismiss him, from that spot. He also follows hand signals as well, but we need more work with that.. i always pointed when i use a whistle so he learn by that..

I know a few and they all train their dogs differently..

I trained mine the way i want them to be.

Hope that helps
NG

[thunderpout]

Hey NG... I think you misunderstood me, I wasnt making a comment on peoples dog training, Id be the last guy to do that!  Training is a personal thing, people all hunt different things and hunt different ways...I was just refering to the amount of noise whistles make in the woods when people are blowing em for every comand, go left, go right, come back, stay, sit, whoa, retrieve, etc. thats alot of whistling...  Its the same thing as people that constantly are yelling orders at there bird dog... I had one dog I was allways yellin at when hunting the thick stuff..its not enjoyable...I think you may be underestimating the grouse in general, the ones you say that just stand there looking at you are the ones who havent hit the road, you dont know of the ones who know better and have long since hit the road.  Adult grouse and wildlife in general know your comming even if you are quiet and not using a whistle, they hear ya coming a mile away...its the uneducated or dumb(fool hens) ones that dont react to it, and are the first ones in someones game bag, or a predators gullet...

[Tami]

I know you were not... i was just telling you how i use mine... and give you some info on how some might train their dogs with them..

I dunno i been grouse hunting since 16 years old... with my grandpas dogs trained on whistle, he would whistle himself not using a whistle.. and i was taught to do that the dame..30 years later i still use that method. I have never scared any birds up from whistling.. but you know that isn't a bad things either, i wish they would jump up, then i wouldn't need a dog lol

[Super Star!]

Hey NG... I think you misunderstood me, I wasnt making a comment on peoples dog training, Id be the last guy to do that!  Training is a personal thing, people all hunt different things and hunt different ways...I was just refering to the amount of noise whistles make in the woods when people are blowing em for every comand, go left, go right, come back, stay, sit, whoa, retrieve, etc. thats alot of whistling...  Its the same thing as people that constantly are yelling orders at there bird dog... I had one dog I was allways yellin at when hunting the thick stuff..its not enjoyable...I think you may be underestimating the grouse in general, the ones you say that just stand there looking at you are the ones who havent hit the road, you dont know of the ones who know better and have long since hit the road.  Adult grouse and wildlife in general know your comming even if you are quiet and not using a whistle, they hear ya coming a mile away...its the uneducated or dumb(fool hens) ones that dont react to it, and are the first ones in someones game bag, or a predators gullet...

I disagree with most everything you say.. In my years of trapping I have came up on many animals sleeping and when I wake them up they are surprised as all hell. You can sneak up on an animal. It’s called spot and stalk many people do it every day and are very successful with it.  I have seen more animals try and hide than run it goes to the fight or flight response. If an animal ran at every noise or movement in the woods they would be on the run none stop. Now if they smell you there gone. 

A whistle in the woods how dose a animal know what it came from there are some birds out there that sound like a whistle. As far as the yelling go pheasant hunting once. That’s all you hear is HEN!!!! ROOSTER!!! That is why you need your dogs to flush them out or you would walk right by most of them or maybe even step on them. 

These techniques have been used for years and years even before there were states and taxes in this country. They worked then and work now and will continue to work.

[Spinach]

I have to say i disagree with you Superstar, not on the critters because i have no knowledge there but on birds (Pheasants, Grouse etc...)

I totally agree with Thunderpout on this one. I use a pointing dog and not a flusher, the main reason we are as quiet as possible is so that we can be close enough to a bird. If we are noisy, blowing whistles, yelling or sometimes even just talking softly, they will flush wild because they know were coming. If we stay quiet and sneak up on them, we can get close enough to make them think they are hiding themselves, thats when a flushing dog or a slight bit of noise will bump a bird.

I guarantee if we hunt loud, all we would be shooting is dumb young birds all season. (if any)

I also believe that all animals know sounds in the woods, they know natural sounds to human sounds, the ones that dont get shot at are a lot easier to get closer too.

[Tami]

I think everyone is right.. every one hunts differently, and what works for them may not be workign for others.. One thing is we all enough the hunt..

I love hearing from others , it would be boring if we all hunted the same way..

Anyone else has any input to this topic?

[Super Star!]

pat i got one question for you on the birds. if being quite is key why do most have collars on there dogs that beep and when they point they beep more...... i agree with some of what you say just not all...

[Tami]

Mine wears a bell..


I am glad that we can all have diff views... and diff ways of hunting.. That what makes the world go round..

But dogs going through the tall grass makes alot of noise too..

Of course they hear you coming, many bird will freeze and blend in.. grouse are alot like that..grouse would rather run and hide then fly up as well..

[BirddogBenelli]

Wow, I think I created quite a stir in the group the snow today is a blast, i have had my dog outside working with me for about an hour.  She is learning a new command, BACK!  It is BEAUTIFUL!

[Tami]

No, this is called talking.. and its fun

Also i have never seen a grouse do the fake broken wing thing, has any of you?

[Super Star!]

No, this is called talking.. and its fun

Also i have never seen a grouse do the fake broken wing thing, has any of you?

did i miss something???

[Tami]

I think you did.......

lol

[HD]

I've seen a "Kill Dear" do the broken wing thing, but never a grouse.



Hunter

[Tami]

In the grouse books, it saids the hen will do that a lot.. i just have never seen that..

[HD]

Me neeeeddddeeerrr!

I been around their nests, and haven't seen it.

Interesting......veeerrrryyy, interesting..................



Hunter

[Spinach]

pat i got one question for you on the birds. if being quite is key why do most have collars on there dogs that beep and when they point they beep more...... i agree with some of what you say just not all...

Because every novice hunter thinks they need to control there dog with a beeper or bell. I'm am not cutting down anyone that does either. Companies sell this stuff because hunters buy it, they feel like they are getting an edge.

With some dogs it is necessary to have a beeper or bell, not because of lack of training, just differnt style or size of the dog. I guarantee that same dog and hunter will have better luck without the beeper or bell though, assuming the training is there.

My whole point is that the quitter you and your dog are, the more birds you will get close to and pin down until they are pressured enough to bust, ideally you want your gun in range when the bird decideds it needs to bust out. A really smart bird will run, which is probably the hardest thing for a dog to learn.

I do not use a beeper or a bell, i have in the past though, only because of the conditions or how the birds are reacting that day.

[thunderpout]

 Well put Spin...SS, thats why I 'd never use a beeper collar personaly, unless I set it on point only, but even then, it could flush birds(I used to use a bell alot but had grouse and pheasants runnin because of it!)... Most of the time birds will run to put distance between you before flushing...happens all the time!  I got a buddy that calls roosters "road runners"....they're fast as hell and will run forever, sometimes never flushing at all....they run on ya all the time... Its hard to see grouse runnin on ya because of the cover there in, that and their camoflage.  Then when they do flush, the smarter, older ones are very good at puttin objects between you and them...people use beepers and bells mostly because its hard to keep track of yer dog(s) in thick cover, beepers so ya find em when on point and not moving.  They will beep differently so you can tell if they're on point and not moving.  I train my setters to work very close, within sight(most of the time) and they check with me to look for a hand signal from time to time... Thats important to me because then ya know hes working WITH you and not hunting for himself... Animals ya trap are different than say, things like upland birds and deer that either do one of two things...hunker down and blend in(hoping you wont see em and you'll walk by..) or sneek away then take flight if they think necessary....  NG, I have seen grouse do the injured bird deal to lure you away, and have had a couple run at me and even had one go at me pecking/attacking me when her brood went running past me on a trail! It wasnt funny at the time...nearly feared for my life! they are little raptors with feathers and beaks!  Lets just say Im glad they're small.... Here's a good one, I'm sure youve heard you can get a male grouse to drum at you when ya mimick a drum by thumpin your chest...I heard one drum in the fall while up on the echo trail a few years back, and I got him to run to me by drumming to him, he was pissed I was invading his territory, My old, late setter Mojo locked up, pointed (I dont think the bird seen him) and he flushed right when it saw me! (yeah he made a fatal mistake...) True story! 

[HD]

Now, that one I've done.... the drumming thing....they do seem to get pissed off! LOL

Hunter

[blabman]

Why do they have 2 whistles when training?
Because these are probably people who are around Hunt tests or field trials.
It is always good to have a back up in case one quits working, and there are ones that will work better for long distances and for cutting thru wind.

[thunderpout]

Someone told me once at the Game Fair that he had different whistles for his different dogs, different tones for each dog...thought that was pretty cool, he was a trial guy.... but said his labs knew the difference.  Not sure if he was jerkin my chain, but I thought that was interesting....

[Spinach]

Why do they have 2 whistles when training?
Because these are probably people who are around Hunt tests or field trials.
It is always good to have a back up in case one quits working, and there are ones that will work better for long distances and for cutting thru wind.

Good point.

Hunting and field trials are 2 different worlds. My dog is a great hunter, she works close, she's thorough and slow, does a great job keeping birds from busting and does well on running birds.

She would absolutely fail a field trial test though and probably embarass me.

[Tami]

Why do they have 2 whistles when training?
Because these are probably people who are around Hunt tests or field trials.
It is always good to have a back up in case one quits working, and there are ones that will work better for long distances and for cutting thru wind.

For the woods,  and the weather
all depends on the area, thick? field? and also the weather, fog? raining? sunny? short or long.ball .. no ball.... thats why

[Tami]

Thunder i wish i was there to see that... and filming it too.. lol i know it isn't funny at the time, but looking back i bet it brings a smile to your face ?
it sure did mine
hehe i loved it, thanks for sharing it

[Merimac]

If I didn't have a bell or a beeper on my dog I wouldn't know where she was at.  Like many pointing breeds she covers a ton of ground quick.  These days I use a bell and back it with a remote beeper.   I also sing to my dog in the woods.  Not to keep her listening but because I caught myself between 2 bears a few years ago.  I didn't like the adrenaline rush I would rather see less than do that again.