high fence huge bucks

[stevejedlenski]

this are picks from a ranch in canada... people pay tens of thousands to hunt these animals.
what do you guys think about these types of hunts??? do you think its really a sport hunting for these, or would you say its like shooting cows?




world record ML elk

[Outdoors Junkie]

It's not the same as hunting in the pure wild.

[stevejedlenski]

here are some still in velvet



these triplets that are ONLY 2 years old

[sjohnnie26]

I'm with Dennis.  It's not the same, especially since they are probably pretty used to being around humans.  They are some monsters though.

[22lex]

Nothing's a sure bet when hunting, but running them back and forth in high fence situation is hardly what I would consider true hunting.

Tens of thousands of dollars (If I had the money!!!!) would be put towards an alaskan trip for a number of species, or a nice three month vacation all over the US hunting critters and fishing.

[beeker]

cheating is cheating regardless what you pay for it. half the fun of it is the challenge and not knowing what will walk under your stand today and to eliminate chance from the equasion is taking out all the fun... like someone said you may as well go shoot a cow, same scenario and for 10k you could get a full body mount of a heffer.. a nice black and white sitting in your trophy room..

[JohnWester]

lame, cheating, just plain dumb.  no challenge, you don't get to experience that outdoors hunt, that is what it's all about.  not whether you get a deer or not, but just the adrenaline of you turning your head for just a second and turn back to see that big deer just standing there and you wonder to yourself... how did he get there...  that can't be duplicated at a ranch with fences.

[JCAMERON]

I think its AWESOME! If you like to sit in a well insulated heated condo of a stand wearing a robe and carpet slippers while you hunt domesticated animals... I don't think it is for tough people that like a challenge (minnesotans). It's for true city slickers, not us.

[stevejedlenski]

now that youve said what you think about the "sport".
what do you think of the reputation it gives to hunters in general, or what do you think PETA gets from it?

[stevejedlenski]

i figured id add a few more pics for something to look at...


what do they feed these things look at the mass

[Outdoors Junkie]

now that youve said what you think about the "sport".
what do you think of the reputation it gives to hunters in general, or what do you think PETA gets from it?

I think it gives us a bad rap!  This question makes me think about the Country music singer (Gentry) that shot that big black bear in northern MN (fenced in) tried to say it was taken in the wild and got busted. 

What did that do for hunters?

Makes me ticked!

[deadeye]

I say if you got the $$ and want to pay for a big set, go for it.  However, once you have it don't be making up stories about how/where you got it.  Tell the truth.  I think there are two problems. 1. Deer always escape the "high fence". This can/will contribute to spreading desease. 
2. Some of these pen raised deer will eventually be entered in the records as fair chaise game.  This will basically destroy the records as we know them.  Simular to steroids and base ball.

[dakids]

I had to add this. Genetics   http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1258426438

Check out Sudden Impact  he is only 2 years old

Kind of cool but it is still cheating. 

[HD]

I had to add this. Genetics   http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1258426438

Check out Sudden Impact  he is only 2 years old

Kind of cool but it is still cheating. 

Thats, just plain freaky...................

[jkcmj]

I don't see any problem with the fenced hunts.  These deer are like a work of art, and with quality comes cost.  You get what you pay for in life, and if you can afford the best, go for it!  I don't see this as being compareable with hunting at all.  This is not cheating, nor is it necessarily unsportsmen like.  This is simply another class of animal that has been carefully improved through genetic improvements and is harvested in a controlled environment.  

The deer shot in these enclosures are highly valued and cared for as such.  They are killed in as humane and controlled setting as possible.  These outfits have to protect their livelihood and do careful PR for the most part.  Many are done in very large enclosures which are comparable to the normal movement patterns of wild deer.  Obviously most are habituated, just like many wild deer in urban settings won't even flinch at the smell of humans due to daily exposure.

  The deer harvested in the wild hunts do not enjoy this consistent care and pampering in all areas, nor do they enjoy the same level of care during the harvest or hunt.  The number of lost, wounded, and wasted deer shot during the annual hunts in the wild is what affects the public perception.  The large parties driving the woods, shooting over roads or taking other wild shots, the sound of rapid fire semi-auto rifles and shotguns being emptied in seconds, the wounded deer limping around fields after the season, etc, all of which I see in our neighborhood, is what affects the public perception.  Whether you like it or not, fenced hunts done right are likely the future for hunting, not the problem.  

[dakids]

Here is a link to their "Canned Hunt Videos"     I love the one where the buck gets shot with its head in the feeder bowl.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1243727193


My ranking of hunts goes like this
1.  Hunting free range deer
2.  Hunting over bait for deer
3.  Paying a lot to hunt over bait inside the pasture.

[stevejedlenski]

these deer are so messed up that they dont even look like whitetails. well i too agree that hunting will eventually be only for the rich people... keep shopping at wal-mart...

[Auggie]

I don't see any problem with the fenced hunts.  These deer are like a work of art, and with quality comes cost.  You get what you pay for in life, and if you can afford the best, go for it!  I don't see this as being compareable with hunting at all.  This is not cheating, nor is it necessarily unsportsmen like.  This is simply another class of animal that has been carefully improved through genetic improvements and is harvested in a controlled environment.  

The deer shot in these enclosures are highly valued and cared for as such.  They are killed in as humane and controlled setting as possible.  These outfits have to protect their livelihood and do careful PR for the most part.  Many are done in very large enclosures which are comparable to the normal movement patterns of wild deer.  Obviously most are habituated, just like many wild deer in urban settings won't even flinch at the smell of humans due to daily exposure.

  The deer harvested in the wild hunts do not enjoy this consistent care and pampering in all areas, nor do they enjoy the same level of care during the harvest or hunt.  The number of lost, wounded, and wasted deer shot during the annual hunts in the wild is what affects the public perception.  The large parties driving the woods, shooting over roads or taking other wild shots, the sound of rapid fire semi-auto rifles and shotguns being emptied in seconds, the wounded deer limping around fields after the season, etc, all of which I see in our neighborhood, is what affects the public perception.  Whether you like it or not, fenced hunts done right are likely the future for hunting, not the problem.  

   Well put. I am going to give you guys a little perspective from somebody on the other side of this. As some of you may know I raise white tail and have also raised elk in the past.
    As far as disease is concerned, we as growers are about as much threat to the wild population as bambi would be to a small child. All of these diseases are not from captive reared animals, but natural occurring in the wild. The MN TB problem was from untested cattle from Mexico, not pen raised deer. Where do you think all the research comes from on the disease that is around? Where do you think effective control methods are first practiced? All of our animals need to be tagged with a farm # on the back of each tag. This creates a paper trail that follows the animal where ever it may go. We have strict fence rules, they are checked by a state inspector on an annual spot check. We need to keep strict records of any animal that is killed or dies, and have each tested. Any body that ships deer also has to have animals tested for TB and bruciolosus every other year if it is a closed heard. If not a closed heard they need to be checked 2 in 90 days before shipment. We are the only farmers that pay a fee to the board of animal health to off set costs of our programs. Animals may escape, but rarely do they travel far. And believe me if your high dollar deer get out you are going to do everything to get them back. We have to much invested to let them walk.
     Where do you think a great majority of photos for the great wildlife calendars and magazine covers originate that we all enjoy so much? Where do you think the vast majority of all your food plot seeds are tested before they ever hit the market? Where do all of your scents come from? Where do the deer that are supposedly hunted on your favorite TV shows come from? Farms all over like mine or larger.
      I will agree that these deer are not hunted. They are shot. But it is no worse than hunting over a bait pile. In fact it is more ethical in my opinion. If these deer are in a large enough enclosure it can be very similar to a hunt in the wild. If every one is so concerned about ethics of the hunt, they would stop baiting, planting food plots with deer candy, toss out all the scents and every other aid before hitting the field year after year.
      Some people do not have the access to ground as easily as they once did. They need a place to go. Just like everything else in this world it is moving more and more to the lazy mans quick gratification. So before you try and take away someones income, just remember the last time you spent more time looking for the remote than it would have taken just to walk over and change the channel yourself. Same ball game just a different setting.
     So before you say somebody is cheating, remember that pile of corn you dumped by your stand. If people are willing to pay for it there is obviously a demand. And believe me there is a demand.

[beeker]

anything that has a tag in it's ear and paper trail is not "game". it should only be mounted with the tag in it's ear.

[GOLDTIP]

I am completely against it , for one it gives us "HUNTERS" a bad name and thats all that PETA and all the the other bunny huggers need to see, they already have enough leverage on us.

This isnt hunting it's killing and thats it !!!  Someday if I met a guy that said  Ya one year I shot a buck that scored 200 inches and then told me it was on a ranch or high fenced area, then I would just say to him, OH your one of those guys that cant get it done the natural way so you took the easy way out, and you call yourself a hunter!!! what a joke

But on the other hand if I ran into a guy that tells me he shot a monster on public land I will give the biggest congrats on a JOB well done, because that tells me he did his homework and earned every last bit of that buck.

[Outdoors Junkie]

In my opinion, the real outdoorsman spends the time scouting an area and deciding proper stand placement to harvest their game.  I don't hunt over a bait pile.

I have nothing against the people who make a living off of raising deer or Elk (for the meat or scent).  That is like saying I am against a farmer raising cattle.  I don't think the farmer is taking clients out to his pasture to shoot a cow.  Not much sport in that.

The people who pay for the fenced hunts, are people who don't have time to scout and they pay someone (guide) to increase their odds at getting a quality animal.  Which in my opinion is not the real outdoorsman type hunt.  If they have the money to do it, then great.  

It is just not what I do at this time.  If I were disabled, or elderly, I might consider a fenced hunt.  Since I have time to invest in the whole deer hunting experience, I chose to do that instead.  It is much more rewarding to get a trophy after investing the time scouting, doing the homework, putting a plan together and have it work out in the end.

Just my $.02

[Auggie]

anything that has a tag in it's ear and paper trail is not "game". it should only be mounted with the tag in it's ear.

I don't believe anybody here has said they are "game" beeker. Whether or not they have a hole in the ear or not makes no difference to me. The pay is the same if it is going on the wall. And when it comes down to it, the person shooting and having the critter mounted is the one that has to live with it. If they are proud more power to them. Not for me or you. But I don't think it is right to say they are doing something wrong, especially when it can have a direct impact on my pocket book and many others.
Dennis, people may not be doing it with cattle, but they sure do it with bison alot. And I agree with most of your last statement. In order for the guy selling meat, scent, velvet, or whatever they need to supplement that with the shooter market to be profitable. There is a demand for it. Why knock a guy for doing it for whatever reason.
For those that do not agree with it fine, but who cares if some one else wants to do it? Not me. I am going to try and meet those demands if I can.

[Outdoors Junkie]

I understand that it effects your business.  If they have the money to do a fenced hunt, and want to mount it, good for them and good for your line of work.

My point is the most rewarding hunt (in my opinion) is the one I described in my previous post.  the one you invest the time in.  That is a real outdoorsman type hunt.

At this point in my life, the fenced hunts are not for me. 

If I could have afforded to take my late grandpa out to fenced hunt after he had his stroke and was limited to a wheel chair, I would have done it.  If he would have shot a nice buck during a hunt like that, I would have had it mounted for him.

[Cody Gruchow]

well im not against it and im not with it.  think about it.. what really makes an outdoorsman? i classify it as someone who enjoys the time in the feild and could care less if they harvest anything or not. now for this a real outdoorsman spends time doing all this homework and etc. how is the fenced hunt any different than say someone paying a outfitter to hunt elk or hunt deer and etc. its the same thing, the client(sp) is not spending anytime doing the homework and what not. he is just here is 5 thousand dollars which stand do i go to. now i do want to experience one of these hunts, not in an actual fenced area were the deer cant get out, but to me an outfitter is the same thing, yes the deer can come and go as they please, but do they? most likely not. now i have been doing this homework for about 4 years and hasnt paid off, am i mad about it absolutly not, do i regret it? that answer is no also.

[Spinach]

I think it is absolutely crazy for someone to hunt in a controlled and closed in area, shoot a trophy animal and pay to have it mounted! Someone mentioned cheating, that about sums it up for me too. How could anyone feel like they challenged themselves in a controlled hunt? Auggie, I do agree that hunters should be able to mount whatever they are proud of and it does affect your business, I agree with that end of the debate, to each their own... I guess. I just like the challenge of a real hunt myself.

[beeker]

I'll never knock someone for earning a living.. and Auggie if you make your living doing this I'm not knocking you for raising deer or elk... you offer a service and people are willing to pay to shoot your deer and elk.  but a deer on a farm no matter what size is not going to be the same as a deer in the wild

[Auggie]

 Beeker, I understand and agree with you. But what I want people to see is all of the benefits that a ranch offers not only the people that have been called cheaters, but what they offer you as the general joe blow hunters.
Ok guys, I am going to toss another little twist at you. How many of you that are completely against ranch hunts have ever fished a farm pond that was stocked. Pulled out your Vexilar, camera, 10 inch gas ice auger and sat on your comfy warm ass inside a shelter. Do you consider this cheating? Or is it just fishing to you?

[Cody Gruchow]

i completely agree with auggie. but all everyone see's is the fenced part. do most realize that most of these deer that are "fenced" are on propertys 500 acres and bigger. the deer go were they want to, yes they cant leave the property but say your land has the only tree clump around that holds alot of deer for bedding areas, does that mean your cheating because all the deer are drawn to your land, and they keep coming back? the only difference i see for wild deer VS pen deer is that the pen deer are a little more use to humans, BUT what about around the metro or the suburban areas were you have deer in your back yard when your on the porch or have deer walk right past you plain as day, most of these deer are just as use to seeing humans as the pen raised deer are. i can tell you right now the metro deer i bet are dumder than the pen raised deer. the food part is no different either, weres the difference from a food bucket compared to a food plot or corn feild?

[Auggie]

   I wish I could find this study that was done. They put some hunters in a 1 square mile (640 acres) enclosure that had bright colored ribbon tied to the antlers of several mature bucks. It was mixed river bottom, marsh, and grass land if I recall. The hunters were able only to see 1 of the bucks in question in the period of time they spent in the pen. I am not sure on the time but it was several days. I will try and find it if I can.
    I sell mine to larger ranches. I have mine in a fairly small area and they have some of the same habits as wild deer. The older bucks are almost always the last to appear for feed. Another thing you will notice is they learn different people. When I come around they don't get to worked up, some of my bottle babies even come for an ear scratch or treat. But someone new shows up and they are on high alert. The vet shows up and some will almost vanish!
     Another thing that you have all learned a great deal about from pen deer is how they vocalize. Where do you think all these calls that are so commonly used were developed first?
        So nobody wants to address the fishing question eh?

[Spinach]

I'll go first. I view the fishing equation the same as pen raised big game, fun to catch or shoot but not a challenge. I have fished stocked farm ponds in the past and had a blast but would never mount anything. Pen raised animals do serve a great purpose as auggie stated, but not enough of a challenge in my opinion.