squirrel research

[22lex]

I think there are some really oppinionated bias' here. What if that 5K was going to walleye research, or URL crappie research?

You're right on JC. I seem to remember pictures of my grandpa with stringers full of northern and walleye from our lake in the mid 50's and 60's, and now we are lucky to catch a walleye or a northern over 25''. The state has spent millions of dollars for restocking efforts and management for both these species in our MN waters.

5k is hardly worth griping about.

[kingfisher1]

what if the $5,000 went to a party like the one they had last year?  Would everyone still be muttering $5,000 isn't that much?

[beeker]

5k isn't even enough to start developing the parameters of a viable protocol to study these critters.. plus when you facter in the the metro and the rural areas it will be nearly impossible for any meaningful data to appear from this amount of money. I've worked for large research companys and have seen 5k spent on letter head design.

IMHO the 5k is more of a starting point to get people talking about what can be done to preserve the hunting traditions that people have built into squirrel hunting, such as taking a kid or just an excuse to sit in the woods allday. if people don't start talking about it nothing will ever be done to fix the problem.

I could look it up .. but thought I would toss it on here quick.. is there a limit on squirrels? like I said I don't hunt em.

I have an on going dispute with a red squirrel, he seems to win all the time.

[kingfisher1]

I agree that $5K isn't enough to get started on the research.  But how much is?  How much money should be spent on squirrel research so we can spend even more money to "restore thier populations" so that certain froups can depleat the population again. 

Without looking it up, I think the limit on squirrels is 5 per day and 10 in possession. 

beeker, my solution to the red squirrel dispute is a dog with a good nose and a 12 gauge loaded with 7.5 or 8 shot.  Have the dog tree the squirrel and you know the rest.........

[22lex]

5k isn't even enough to start developing the parameters of a viable protocol to study these critters.. plus when you facter in the the metro and the rural areas it will be nearly impossible for any meaningful data to appear from this amount of money. I've worked for large research companys and have seen 5k spent on letter head design.

IMHO the 5k is more of a starting point to get people talking about what can be done to preserve the hunting traditions that people have built into squirrel hunting, such as taking a kid or just an excuse to sit in the woods allday. if people don't start talking about it nothing will ever be done to fix the problem.

I could look it up .. but thought I would toss it on here quick.. is there a limit on squirrels? like I said I don't hunt em.

I have an on going dispute with a red squirrel, he seems to win all the time.

You're right, it probably is just a starting point to get the word out there for the groups that actually want to hunt and eat this game.

If we aren't careful though: 

I'm sure it will escalate to squirrel stamps for your small game tag, sending in your squirrel teeth for aging, then to a three (maybe even two) bag limit, and no squirrel shining at night, no taking of banded squirrels, of course no shooting the albino ones, no more acorn baiting, shortening up the season not to coincide with squirrel rut, no more using decoys, the list goes on.....

[JCAMERON]

The squirrel rut....... 

When their necks get all big and they "go nuts"!

[kingfisher1]

5k isn't even enough to start developing the parameters of a viable protocol to study these critters.. plus when you facter in the the metro and the rural areas it will be nearly impossible for any meaningful data to appear from this amount of money. I've worked for large research companys and have seen 5k spent on letter head design.

IMHO the 5k is more of a starting point to get people talking about what can be done to preserve the hunting traditions that people have built into squirrel hunting, such as taking a kid or just an excuse to sit in the woods allday. if people don't start talking about it nothing will ever be done to fix the problem.

I could look it up .. but thought I would toss it on here quick.. is there a limit on squirrels? like I said I don't hunt em.

I have an on going dispute with a red squirrel, he seems to win all the time.

You're right, it probably is just a starting point to get the word out there for the groups that actually want to hunt and eat this game.

If we aren't careful though: 

I'm sure it will escalate to squirrel stamps for your small game tag, sending in your squirrel teeth for aging, then to a three (maybe even two) bag limit, and no squirrel shining at night, no taking of banded squirrels, of course no shooting the albino ones, no more acorn baiting, shortening up the season not to coincide with squirrel rut, no more using decoys, the list goes on.....

don't forget that for the first 2 weeks of the season, hunting hours will be 9 am until 4 pm, then the hours will be 9 am until 1/2 hour after sunset for the next 4 weeks following the first 2 weeks, then 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset for the remainder of the season!

[The General]

When i was working for the DNR 10 years ago I believe the pay rate was $14.25

[Bobby Bass]

I think the opinions are coming from those, including me, who take squirrels and their hunting for granted.  I was never one to specifically hunt squirrels but would take one or two when grouse hunting or rabbit hunting. 

agreed.  I don't go out in the qoods specifically for squirrels.  But if I see one while grouse, duck, goose, or whatever hunting, and see one, I'll usually swat it. 

So how do you eat your squirrel Kingfisher, you are of course "Swatting" it meaning you are harvesting it for the pot , correct? Like the 30,000 to 40,000 hunters who are targeting Squirrel and have paid for the right to harvest small game and are asking for some services back on their hunting license

[kingfisher1]

Yes, I will harvest one if the opportunity arrises.  It will usually go into a stew if you're interested.  I'm just not going to go out of my way to "swat" a limit of them or hunt them exclusively. 

[The General]

I here they make good dog food.  Maybe that is a new topic though.  Is it ok to shot game to feed your dog?  I would be nice and cook if for him of course.

[kingfisher1]

I here they make good dog food.  Maybe that is a new topic though.  Is it ok to shot game to feed your dog?  I would be nice and cook if for him of course.

I don't think it's illegal.  When I had a dog, it would get any scraps from wild game.  My parents will try to eat a squirrel whole if it gets to it before we do.  must not be a problem.

[MnSportsman]

I'm trying to figure out something.
If we take away the "group" that is mentioned in the article(Who apparently donated $500.00 to the $5000.00).
& changed the species to Pheasants, Brook trout, Jumbo perch or even sunfish.
(Whatever species other than squirrels.) And some other group, took the time to vocalize to the DNR about a possible decrease in population in a area, causing that group some concern, seemingly not just for themselves but for all...

Let's just say that the group was talking about:

For example > Pheasants & the SW Mn area,
                    Brook trout in SE MN or Arrowhead.
                    Jumbo Perch in Lake Mille Lacs
                    Sunfish in the Ottertail county area

Then would those who don't want the study on squirrels, still have the same thoughts on the $5000.00 being spent to find out if there is something wrong with any of the other species I am using as examples?
 Regardless if it is over-hunting Pheasants, Or over-fishing the other species by some other group? Perhaps the group could be the Boy Scouts of America, Military Veterans, Trout unlimited, etc...

Or is there something else that I am not seeing here???

Group? Species? Amount of money?

I am curious to see what the replies to this are going to be, by some of the members here.
 
             

[JCAMERON]

That's exactly what I was saying. I think if it was geared exclusively towards something like URL crappies or Mille Lacs jumbo's (etc.), we might be hearing a different tune sung. Refer to the thread on white bass... Some of the same people that are nay saying here were all for that. Maybe  because those people fish for white bass?

5K might not be enough to draw any conclusive information, but its a start. And to anyone complaining about how the DNR spends money - this subject shouldn't be singled out. If you want to nay say about this because the DNR doesn't spend money well, then maybe we should close up shop on all the walleye stocking and muskie research.

Teddy Roosevelt wanted EVERYONE to have hunting opportunities - I don't think squirrel hunters were exceptional...

[HD]

I myself, have no problem with them doing the research, as long as they have some sort of results posted.

The only thing that I don't like about the strip bass thread, was that they were going to stock a lake that does not have stripped bass in it. Keep the species where they will produce by themselves.

If they were to use the money to transplant squirrels in the North Pole....then yes I would have a problem with it.

Yes, I'm using the North Pole as an example, but you see where I'm going with this.

All people have a right to hunt what they wish, as long as it is in the legal bounderies.

I, myself don't hunt squirrels....I have in the past, but, I'm not going to stand in the way of someone that wants to.

OK, I'm off of my soap box.......
And, this is my opinion, which we all have one....so please keep it civil.

Hunter

[JohnWester]

i can piss away $5000 at eelpout fest... they aren't gonna get any meaningful data from $5000 worth of research.

Heck, that won't even put a name tag on someones door.

[The General]

I'm going to say I agree with John.  The $5000 compared to the amount of money that goes into the other fish and wildlife is such a small percentage.  Probably about the same percentage IMO of the people who actually buy a license for the main purpose of hunting squirrels.  But if you can't do a job right why do it at all?

[HD]

I guess you have a point......

Maybe, we need more information on how they plan to work the research.

Maybe, what they have in mind, doesn't cost that much.
Maybe, they plan on using resources such as volunteers.

I don't know.......Do you?


I don't think we have enough facts on the topic to pass judgement.

[MnSportsman]

Every year or so, I fill out a form that is provided at the ELS, mailed to me, or answer questions thru the ELS when I buy my licenses for Turkey, & waterfowl( I may have filled out others over the years, but That's a lot of licenses & years to remember all the specifics) .
They(MnDNR) ask questions about your season, & how many birds did you see, & take, etc..
That would be a start, & perhaps not cost a lot of $$$ to implement.

I too could spend $5000.00 pretty quick.. Just like many others.. If we had it to "pi$$" away.
 

I am curious to hear more from the MNO members.
I am learning from this topic & am enjoying the viewpoints here.
Whether they are different from mine or not.
 

[kingfisher1]

MnSportsman, that's not a bad idea.  I agree that the money is going to be spent very quickly.  After that $5K is gone, then how much are we going to be spent.  IMO, It's not what's being researched.  It's the fact that I feel it's a BS research project that will inevitably go way over the $5K mark.  Put a few questions into the ELS survey when you get a small game license.  cost effective. 

[Dotch]

Growing up in SE MN, spent many an hour particularly in the woods on the tributaries to the Root River chasing the wily bushytails. It was a great excuse to get out of going to church on Sunday. We still maintain property in that area on both my wife's side and my side of the family. Living in SC MN now I still get out occasionally although my time now is focused more on enjoying being away from some of the boneheads I have to deal with than it is to bag a meal. No offense to bonehead!  Squirrel is excellent battered and fried as my Mom used to make it or as I've done it, marinated, plopped on the grill smoked up with some apple wood then coated with some barbecue sauce. Mouth waters just thinkin' about it.

The issue with SE Asian hunters in that area has been ongoing for over 20 years and as they've become assimilated into our society there have and continue to be clashes between the cultures. There have been some rather amusing stories as a result and some not so amusing. It is a positive sign they are concerned about the resource and are perhaps looking for some direction to deal with it. $5000 does not sound like it will do much but until I hear what the DNR's planning to do with it, will reserve judgement. As far as the notion squirrels could be feasibly be trapped in the cities and transplanted so they could be hunted in WMA's I think someone's dreamin' there. Here we go with the squirrel stamp and more goofy rules as someone suggested if that's the case. I'll stop here before I go off on a tangent about trout stamps and fishing with worms as I once did as a lad in SE MN streams.

Judging by the number of squirrels squashed on the roads in the local rural areas, I'd have to say numbers appear pretty stable. If anything due perhaps to a lack of hunting pressure, a series of easy winters and non-huntable areas they tend to dwell in, numbers appear to be as high as I've ever seen them. I do notice one of the fox squirrels in the morning when I'm on the throne however that scratches furiously and is starting to look a little rough. Over the years have found some ratty looking squirrels dead behind the house with what appeared to be mange so perhaps there's a little more to them than meets the eye. They are interesting little critters to read up on to be sure.

[Auggie]

I myself, have no problem with them doing the research, as long as they have some sort of results posted.

The only thing that I don't like about the strip bass thread, was that they were going to stock a lake that does not have stripped bass in it. Keep the species where they will produce by themselves.

If they were to use the money to transplant squirrels in the North Pole....then yes I would have a problem with it.

Yes, I'm using the North Pole as an example, but you see where I'm going with this.

All people have a right to hunt what they wish, as long as it is in the legal bounderies.

I, myself don't hunt squirrels....I have in the past, but, I'm not going to stand in the way of someone that wants to.

OK, I'm off of my soap box.......
And, this is my opinion, which we all have one....so please keep it civil.

Hunter

I am with Hunter on this. 100% of his post. I don't hunt them often. Do the study and give us what will most likely be meaningless data. I can tell you this. It is better spent than $35,000 shooting at dead sheep. "Tree rats" are an important part of the landscape, even if they are not a target for your game bag.
I think most that are against the study are more against a particular racial group and not the study itself. It might be a gripe worth looking at. Maybe the $5K could be used to educate this certain group of people about over harvest and conservation.
Maybe if this country went back to english being the language spoke by the majority, the Christian values that were the basis of this country when it was founded, and actually enforced some of the laws regarding who and what was being let in to our borders, this would not be a problem at all.
Other cultures are great, don't get me wrong. But when a whole generation of kids is not learning the pledge of allegance, or allowed to say a prayer before a ball game just because it may offend some other "ethnic" culture things have gone to far. So bring your culture, I will embrace it as long as mine is embraced as well. We have game laws that need to be followed for a reason.

[sandmannd]

I myself, have no problem with them doing the research, as long as they have some sort of results posted.

The only thing that I don't like about the strip bass thread, was that they were going to stock a lake that does not have stripped bass in it. Keep the species where they will produce by themselves.

If they were to use the money to transplant squirrels in the North Pole....then yes I would have a problem with it.

Yes, I'm using the North Pole as an example, but you see where I'm going with this.

All people have a right to hunt what they wish, as long as it is in the legal bounderies.

I, myself don't hunt squirrels....I have in the past, but, I'm not going to stand in the way of someone that wants to.

OK, I'm off of my soap box.......
And, this is my opinion, which we all have one....so please keep it civil.

Hunter

I am with Hunter on this. 100% of his post. I don't hunt them often. Do the study and give us what will most likely be meaningless data. I can tell you this. It is better spent than $35,000 shooting at dead sheep. "Tree rats" are an important part of the landscape, even if they are not a target for your game bag.
I think most that are against the study are more against a particular racial group and not the study itself. It might be a gripe worth looking at. Maybe the $5K could be used to educate this certain group of people about over harvest and conservation.
Maybe if this country went back to english being the language spoke by the majority, the Christian values that were the basis of this country when it was founded, and actually enforced some of the laws regarding who and what was being let in to our borders, this would not be a problem at all.
Other cultures are great, don't get me wrong. But when a whole generation of kids is not learning the pledge of allegance, or allowed to say a prayer before a ball game just because it may offend some other "ethnic" culture things have gone to far. So bring your culture, I will embrace it as long as mine is embraced as well. We have game laws that need to be followed for a reason.

I couldn't agree with you more Augie. I don't have a problem with cultures, mine lies in keeping everything you can see and it seems to be a certain group. You can't rape the land and expect it to replenish. Get back to our old values and laws and go about things the right way.

[kingfisher1]

I, too, agree with you augie.  I don't have a problem with the culture they brought over.  But when I'm out hunting and see them shooting everything that moves and walking out of the woods with limits of squirrels and a few cowbirds (I've seen it, trust me), don't go to the DNR and complain that there aren't any squirrels left.  Moderation.  I agree thay educating this group in conservation and over harvesting.  If a different culture went out and shot a limit of pheasents every day in groups of 10 or more, would there not be an outrage?

[mnnate]

Great posts augie,kf1...its been a long day...

[22lex]

Before anymore garbage gets posted here, please read the link for the article posted by KINGER1.

I didn't see anything in the article that talked about "complaining" to the DNR, or raping the land and WMA's. I think the article was based on advocating of education for hunters, and resources for a management plan for a species hunted by hunters in MN.

Also, a chapter of the MDHA is supporting the idea because they believe it is the first step in line with deer hunting for younger hunters and they dont' want to see an erradication of a species.

Never thought I would read a thread lasting this long about a rodent!

[Bobby Bass]

Lets get back on track here, This string is not for the debating of ethnic groups, the original question is to the spending of DNR money on Squirrel research. Bashing of any individual or ethnic groups is not  allowed. Bobby Bass

[mnnate]

sorry about that.

[Dotch]

Some links for those interested in reading a little more about fox and gray squirrels:

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mammals/mammals/foxsqrl.htm

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mammals/mammals/graysq.htm

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/snapshots/mammals/foxsquirrel.html

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/snapshots/mammals/graysquirrel.html

[MnSportsman]

Thank you for taking the time to post these links. 
I will check them out.

I fish & hunt for many species.
Anytime I can learn something more about things I am interested in, that is always is to my benefit in my pursuits.Just like you just did, anytime we can pass on good info to other folks.... Well, that benefits all of us.
 Once again, I appreciate your efforts in sharing with others.
 

{I don't post here all that often. Not used to seeing all the "Smileys" waving at me when I do... I am trying to stick to posting the "simple ones". }