Switiching sides on APR

[kenhuntin]

APR Pros and Cons

Pros...Better for the deer herd.

Cons...I don't get to shoot whatever I want, me, me, me.

This arguement can go both ways.The me me me arguement can also stand for hunters that only wish to take big antlered bucks. As far as being better for the herd that is complete rubbish. It protects weak animals with poor genetics that can only produce feeble antlers. No one can argue that is not true in some cases.
 Deer hunters generally go through a phase process as they grow and learn the sport.  Generally at first they are anxious to harvest any deer then in some period of time they generally only target large bucks. Not all hunters fit in this stereotype. A Mature veteran hunter that wishes to only target mature bucks is out of bounds to attempt to deny a young or any hunter the experiences and joy that he enjoyed in his path to matrity.

[mathews4ever]

Matthews I do think MNO does a pretty good job of managing the land he hunts, but it's his choice.

There is no doubt that he manages HIS property well.  I don't want him or any other APR or QDM supporter telling me how to manage the property I hunt. All this apr crap is just to make sure "the neighbors don't kill MY buck". I don't now, nor have I ever cared about antler size, it has always just been about fun and comradery with my fellow hunters. This resent(last 10 years or so) push to only shoot monster bucks already shrunk the group of guys I hunt with and now with this new APR dispute it is getting even worse. It is a shame that the horn porn group are making deer hunting a solitary sport.  They are also taking all the fun out of it.

[DDSBYDAY]

  I deer hunt for venison only.  I don't have any illusions of a huge trophy anytime let alone every time I go out.  I get outdoor news and see lucky hunters with their trophy bucks year after year.  I see the DNR wall of shame and see monstrous trophy deer taken illegally.  Is there a shortage?  I used to put out trail cameras religiously and saw some beautiful bucks.  Even after the season was over.  The problem was they were only on the move between midnight and 2 am.  My point is there are plenty of big bucks out there.  Compare it to musky fishermen.  There is no law other than a slot law that says you can not keep a musky.  There is however  very strong public pressure for catch and release.  Not mandated in any way.  I personally don't think apr will do anything other than keep your average hunter from buying a licence.  The trophy guys will have to compete with the shiners and the shiners will win.   If you want really big deer shine over bait.  Both of those methods are illegal.  Once you apr guys get a handle on stopping those violations  I would be more apt to listen to more regulations.  

[kenhuntin]

 I deer hunt for venison only.  I don't have any illusions of a huge trophy anytime let alone every time I go out.  I get outdoor news and see lucky hunters with their trophy bucks year after year.  I see the DNR wall of shame and see monstrous trophy deer taken illegally.  Is there a shortage?  I used to put out trail cameras religiously and saw some beautiful bucks.  Even after the season was over.  The problem was they were only on the move between midnight and 2 am.  My point is there are plenty of big bucks out there.  Compare it to musky fishermen.  There is no law other than a slot law that says you can not keep a musky.  There is however  very strong public pressure for catch and release.  Not mandated in any way.  I personally don't think apr will do anything other than keep your average hunter from buying a licence.  The trophy guys will have to compete with the shiners and the shiners will win.   If you want really big deer shine over bait.  Both of those methods are illegal.  Once you apr guys get a handle on stopping those violations  I would be more apt to listen to more regulations.  

The Dentist speaks in wisdom beyond his years. And Musky is not only good it is one of the best tasting fish ever. You may think it is close to northern in palatability but is not even close.

[dakids]

  Ok. I want to change my mind on apr.   I hate the gov telling me what I can and can't shoot, when I can shoot them and what weapons I can use.  I want to use my million candle power spot light and shoot it in the summer.   Let me use my grenade launcher.    The gov is taking all the fun out of hunting with all those tough rules.   Me and my friends will soon stop hunting if this last rule change happens.  

[The General]

APR Pros and Cons

Pros...Better for the deer herd.

Cons...I don't get to shoot whatever I want, me, me, me.

Why not just say something bad about my mom while you're at it.

[DDSBYDAY]

 Ok. I want to change my mind on apr.   I hate the gov telling me what I can and can't shoot, when I can shoot them and what weapons I can use.  I want to use my million candle power spot light and shoot it in the summer.   Let me use my grenade launcher.    The gov is taking all the fun out of hunting with all those tough rules.   Me and my friends will soon stop hunting if this last rule change happens.  

   I don't know about my friends but I will.   

[mathews4ever]

me too.

[deadeye]

I'm not going around telling hunters what to shoot.  I would like them to let the little bucks go but in reality I have little to say about what goes on between the DNR and the law makers.  Actually my biggest voice is in being a member of MDHA which most of you know is against APR's.  Now, General, you really can call me a hypocrite for being a member of an organization that has different beliefs than I do.  The one thing most of us have in common is our love of deer and deer hunting.  That probably will not change regardless of what stupid laws they come up with.

[Cody Gruchow]

i think almost everyone is for some type of APR. we let most of the little bucks walk here in the metro.....but on our own free will and we dont have a shortage of deer. now lots of factors play a part in our choice....theres always 4-6 big bucks running around that we know of/have seen so we dont want to tag a small deer.....now i think everyone has there own way of doing things and there own way of hunting. so why ruin it for others......people say those against APR are being selfish....i fail to see how its being selfish... i think its selfish to force your way of doing things on people, when they dont force anything on you. so what they shot a small buck, the world isnt gonna end...the deer herd isnt gonna diminish any...actually it might even help the big buck breed more does, because he has less competition

[bweyer]

Ideas and laws are forced on us everywhere we go. This is nothing new. Many of the regs in place we never had a word to decide the outcome. If this is to ever go through I'm sure it will be a vote of some kind. If APR is in, or out, we'll have our say. Majority will decide. Democracy! If you were to quit if APR was in place I guess I'd wonder how passionate you are about deer hunting.

[The General]

I'm not going around telling hunters what to shoot.  I would like them to let the little bucks go but in reality I have little to say about what goes on between the DNR and the law makers.  Actually my biggest voice is in being a member of MDHA which most of you know is against APR's.  Now, General, you really can call me a hypocrite for being a member of an organization that has different beliefs than I do.  The one thing most of us have in common is our love of deer and deer hunting.  That probably will not change regardless of what stupid laws they come up with.

Deadeye I'm not calling you a hypocrite you just said you're not telling others what to do and then doing the exact opposite which would be the definition of a hypocrite.  Can we not agree, say a doctor is telling you not to smoke, yet when the appointment is over he goes around the corner and lights up a heater...........he by definition would be a hypocrite.  Same as someone on here telling others to follow apr, but they then in turn do not.  That would be the definition of a hypocrite.  Pretty simple.

[HUNTER2]

Sounds like a bunch of little kids on here. Like said earlier, there will be a vote if they are thinking of it. This thread has been beat to death.

[deadeye]

The key word is "telling".  I have ask and suggest they don't shoot little bucks but never "told" them.  The big issue is lumping everything under the "APR" label.  There are many forms and regulations that would limit shooting small bucks.  It doesn't have to be APR, QDM, Trophey managment etc.  If shooting a little wounded buck, or thinking it's ok for the youth to shoot them while wishing people wouldn't shoot them makes me a hyprocrite, I guess I am one.    

[The General]

Ideas and laws are forced on us everywhere we go. This is nothing new. Many of the regs in place we never had a word to decide the outcome. If this is to ever go through I'm sure it will be a vote of some kind. If APR is in, or out, we'll have our say. Majority will decide. Democracy! If you were to quit if APR was in place I guess I'd wonder how passionate you are about deer hunting.

Some people aren't passionate about sitting in a tree stand and letting a deer walk in so they can count every antler, watch it's movements, seeing how it reacts to certain things, then shooting it standing broad side.  A lot of peoples idea of deer hunting is pushing a slough, kicking up deer, and shooting them on the move.  I hunted like that for 11 years and the deer 99% of the time are not close enough to count points.  You can see antlers and you can see yep it's big or no it's not.  APR in my opinion would ruin this type of hunting.  Who are any of us to decide if one person way of hunting is better then ours?  To me shooting a deer with a gun became to easy so I switched to bow, now I can't even do that and have to use a crossbow.  But I don't go around telling others that deer hunting should only be done with a bow because that's the way I like to hunt.  

Cody you are so right!  

[The General]

The key word is "telling".  I have ask and suggest they don't shoot little bucks but never "told" them.  The big issue is lumping everything under the "APR" label.  There are many forms and regulations that would limit shooting small bucks.  It doesn't have to be APR, QDM, Trophey managment etc.  If shooting a little wounded buck, or thinking it's ok for the youth to shoot them while wishing people wouldn't shoot them makes me a hyprocrite, I guess I am one.    

If the doctor asked you to quit smoking and then went around the corner after your appointment and lit up a heater he would not be a hypocrite?  But if he told you and then did the same thing he would be?  I guess I don't see a difference.

In regards to shooting the wounded little buck I say again why don't you just say "I'm for APR but not in it's current form.  I want to be able to shoot wounded little bucks".  Because this thread is about APR and the way it's done down in zone 3 and if THAT way should be implemented through out the state.  In its current form you can not shoot that wounded little buck. 

[stevejedlenski]

Deer hunters generally go through a phase process as they grow and learn the sport.  Generally at first they are anxious to harvest any deer then in some period of time they generally only target large bucks. Not all hunters fit in this stereotype. A Mature veteran hunter that wishes to only target mature bucks is out of bounds to attempt to deny a young or any hunter the experiences and joy that he enjoyed in his path to matrity.

this is exactly why i am against it. i know several people that started hunting by themselves on state land not knowing much about deer or deer hunting. they are lucky to see a deer and will usually shoot the first thing they see. as the years go on they learn and try to better themselves as a hunter (which is where some of us are now). think back to your first days, did you obsses about 150" of bone? or just the hope of shooting a deer?

now take away your food plots, your private land,trail cams, atv's, fancy stands, expensive scent free camo etc. and all your bucks to date. what do you do? stake out a piece of public land and watch 8s and 10s walk by waiting for that booner?

sure is easy to be for APR with all your years of experience and constant flow of yearlings up to 8+points to pass on. but heres the thing WE ARE THE MINORITY you have to relize that the majority of hunters that your going to "regulate" dont have these luxuries. and lets face it, APR doesnt bother us, because thats what we already do!!!

[The General]

Very Nice post Steve

[Dstark5625]

I totally agree Steve.  I don't think it could have been said any better.  We are blessed in this state to have a strong deer herd and shouldn't limit opportunities for anyone.

[jkcmj]

Same boat here...Let each decide on his own.

[stevejedlenski]

check out Deer and Deer hunting TV. this show is a must for any whitetail hunter. i watched an episode today about different methods of hunting deer and how diverse hunting and hunters are. they talk in several episodes about ethics, they have CO's talking about antler addiction. very informative and opens your eyes on several hot topics such as baiting, poaching, use of dogs, why you can't stockpile big bucks... even ted nugent will talk about these subjects (and he's tame).

here's the link http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/ddhtv

http://www.shopdeerhunting.com/hunting-cd-dvds?limit=all

if you ever wanted a show that teaches you about hunting instead of watching someone shoot a deer this is it. you can see some short clips on youtube as well. just search deer and deer hunting. Like i said most informative show out there.

[bweyer]

I agree it was a nice post, but still an opinion. What one person may see as limiting, another sees as opportunity. Just like the post about a hunters progession. Some progress that way (young bucks to mature bucks). Others do the same thing they have, and always will do. Point is everyone is different. I don't think anyone is right or wrong. Unless they can prove biologocal evidence one way or the other. Which has'nt been proven. So if it does come down to a vote I'll do what the majority voted for.

[HD]

Just what I figured, our poll shows about 50/50

[The General]

Yet the no votes have it by one

[flowinggardens]

Deer hunters generally go through a phase process as they grow and learn the sport.  Generally at first they are anxious to harvest any deer then in some period of time they generally only target large bucks. Not all hunters fit in this stereotype. A Mature veteran hunter that wishes to only target mature bucks is out of bounds to attempt to deny a young or any hunter the experiences and joy that he enjoyed in his path to matrity.

I get your arguement on this but when i started hunting the most exciting part was SEEING deer not shooting them, isnt that what hunting is about enjoying the outdoors and the animals, with apr there would more likely be more deer around and you would get to see more than because the guy down the way wouldnt be able to shoot that deer either.  i am pro APR obviuosly but the thing that drives my frustration is sitting all day to see nothing. Just saying hunting is more exciting and more enjoyable when there are animals around. I would rather sit all day seeing deer and not shooting than sitting all day seeing nothing

[HD]

The area I hunt in has been intensive harvest for 10 years or more. So the lack of deer has not been present. Some folks around here have been seeing less deer, and blame the decrease on hunters shooting button bucks. But, they do not take into account the re-introduction of the wolves that have been dropped off in this area to reduce the herd. They think that APR would "fix" the issue, when in fact, it won't do a flipp'in thing.

That's why I could give a  either way.

[kenhuntin]

It is very enjoyable to see and observe deer. The things they do and they way they act/react is astonishing. Watching them bed, lick themselves, each other and things is cool. How they can rub their heads with their hind feet. Pee on their legs and all sorts of stuff.
 The truth is there will be less deer to harvest with apr. To guesstimate that there will be more is an absolute falsehood. I will repost that death from natural predators, disease, automobiles, accidents with fences or broken limbs fom missteps and death from each other from fights all must be figured into the picture.
 Then you must also realize that what is left of that population of bucks that make it to 4 or more points on one side those animals will be targeted and they will be taken by hunters just as fast as some take young bucks now.
 We are all a community of fellow deer hunters and as a community we should strive to keep legislation away from however each man wishes to practice the absolutely wonderful priveledge of the deer hunt.
 Seasons and limits are placed to only remove the excess population of animals in which the ecosystem can support. They do not allow the herd to be decimated.
 If you get bored not seeing deer hang a bird feeder near your stand. That will help pass the time enjoying the outdoors.

[mathews4ever]

Well said Ken

[weldgasman]

I agree to let people hunt. After reading these post a lot of new questions were raised in my mind to think of. I am one that has realized the natural progression of the deer hunter. I want to see quality not so much quantity. There is so much to enjoy outside just becasue I do not see deer I am not bored. DNR is on the right track by have all firearm hunters not being either sex, the lottery is the right move, this will help with the numbers people are looking for. APR is to help qaulity not quanitity.

[HUNTER2]

All they have to do is close the hunting season for about 3 or 4 years and let them all grow up. They did it years ago when the herd was low.