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Author Topic: Duck food  (Read 5134 times)

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Offline LandDr

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We are starting to wind down our shrimp harvest with February coming along.  If anyone wants to talk shrimp or other food sources...send a post.

I can't stress enough how important it is to develop food sources for waterfowl...it is a must!

I was out to Oregon this January and took in their 3 day non-resident season...it was spectacular!!  The fella that had me come out for the Oregon Waterfowl Festival had me out again to talk with others about waterfowl food sources.

When I was out the first time he had shown me his crop field that he would be "flooding" later in the year for duck hunting.  Now I got to see it with 1 to 1.5 feet of water in it..."sheet water" as they call it.  Just fantastic!

He commented to me once..."you Minnesota guys just have to get out in your boats to hunt ducks".

Why don't Minnesota duck hunters create flooded fields for waterfowl?  They do it all over the west coast and the east coast and obviously in southern US...but I have yet to see one field purposely flooded in the fall for ducks.

We have all have memories of fields flooded by heavy rains in the fall and how the ducks just seem to come out of nowhere to feed in that flooded crops.  This year it was like that in western MN...and there were ducks!!!  Lots of them!

Knowing that works like magic...why are we not doing more "moist soils management" and creating "sheet water" in shallow basin areas within harvested fields or even creating some berms with water control structures?

I for one will be aggressively looking for a spot on my land to implement just such a project this year.  I have already spoke to some other farmers/landowners trying to get them on board for some "demonstration sites" to document how we can improve duck hunting in MN and maybe even move the flyway back over here more.

Wouldn't it be something if there was actually a conservation program for something like this?  Call it in the benefit of flood control, water quality and DUCKS!  Well...I am not going to wait for the program...the time is now to get it started.

Stop complaining about poor duck hunting and do something about it!  If you provide water and food...the ducks will show up!

Comments or questions?  If you need some ideas on how to accomplish this, shoot an email to me and we can brainstorm on it.

Kyle, PLM

Offline Duckslayer

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Kyle, you stir up some fond memories with that post!  I used to hunt Carlyle lake in IL.  They had what they called the impoundment, an area that was probably at least a couple miles square.  There were a series of levie's running through it.  They would plant what we always called scrub corn out there that would end up 5 to 6 feet high.  There were milo fields and othe stuff out there as well.  In the fall they had two big diesel pumps that flooded the entire area.  Huge pumps!  18 inch tubes from the Kaskaskia river into the impoundment and took weeks to flood.  There were lots of control dams that they would set at various heights to manage the water level.   You could walk out on the levies and when you got to a spot that you wanted to hund you simply walked into the water and set up decoys.  Of course you had to know what areas you could walk in.  Some of them were way to deep to cross.  Everyone wore chest waders and on average you were in 2 to 3 feet of water.  The impoundments were managed by the Army Corp of engineers and on oepning day there would be over 100 hunters standing at the gates waiting to get in.  The gates opened at 03:30 and off ya went.  A mad dash to get to the spot that you thought would be good for that day.  You could hear thousands of birds getting up and moving around as the hunters went to the leviees.  I sure would like to find something like that around here but I do not have any connections with anyone that has a low lying field and a river running next to it.  What fun it was though!  No boats were allowed in there unless we got too much rain and the majority of it was not accessable by walking.  I had the best hunt of my life in a milo field one December day when it was snowing.  Huge flakes, no wind!  Got a limit of mallards and then I put my gun back in the case, hung it up in the tree and called flock after flock into the decoys.  I would walk out to dunk the dekes to get the snow off of them and then go back and call some more in.  Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

Offline LandDr

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Jimbo

Thanks for the story...we need to hear more stories like that...but more in the present tense rather than pastense.

It can happen!  Right here in Minnesota.  We have all the ducks just sitting to the north of us in the "Duck Factory".  We just need to help them make their choice on where they want to fly down at...Dakotas or Minnesota?

There are so many places where this can be done...I see them all over as I drive around MN doing consulting work...everywhere!

Depressional area without drainage...just leave some crop standing or at a minimum leave the field untilled after harvest.  All it needs is some water...shallow well with a trash pump for example.

Depressional area with drainage...again leave crop or crop residue.  Then put in a solid riser pipe to the elevation that you want your water at.  Then flood it.  If the tile underground is perforated, you might have to turn the pump on more often.  When the season is done...pull the solid pipe out...that simple and it doesn't make an issue with wet fields in the spring as the drainage is back.

Flat low land...more labor intensive, but use a plow (several passes will pile up dirt) or dozer to push up a berm of dirt along the bottom edge.  Get it good and high to impound the water.  Then have a "spillway" either with plastic over the ground so the water moving over it does not errode the berm away or install a control structure.  Again, pump water in and open the drain after the season is done.

I had some farmers in the store the other day and talked to them about it...they are very active hunters.  Right away they did not like the idea of having water standing in their field.  I told them they can pull the drain after the duck hunting season and all of the water under the ice will drain out and the rest will drain in the spring as it usually does.  I think I have them on board as they have been back in the store to get more bait and that is all they can talk about...what fields they are going to flood out.  Excellent!!  It all starts with a few demonstration sites...it will catch on.

If there is anyone interested in getting on board this year and want to include their project, please take some before and after photos to document your work.  Ultimately I would like to present this to the waterfowl organizations to get more publicity on this method.  I have already informed Harvey Nelson of MWA about my intentions.  Including your project would be great!!

If you have more questions on how this might work on your property...please do not hesitate to post.  If you provide me with your Township, Range and Section, I can even provide you with an aerial photo with a soils overlay for better planning.

Exciting stuff!!

Kyle, PLM

Offline LandDr

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We finally got the boats out to harvest Sago and will be cleaning and sorting.

If ANYONE has any questions regarding waterfowl food plots or how to attract and hold more ducks to their place...just have to ask.

Kyle, PLM

Offline JohnWester

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kyle, I need to get you in touch with my old man... he finally got his pond dug out on his land, I want him to talk to you.  should I just give him your shop number?
If a gun kills people then I can blame a pen for my misspells?

IBOT# 286 big_fish_guy

Offline LandDr

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John

Good to hear from you.  I am still not getting notifications of new posts or responses.  Any ideas?

He can call me at 320-760-9355

Also...where is the Minnewaska section to enter my reports...can't find it but will keep looking.

Thanks

Kyle, PLM
Fish On

Offline deadeye

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Kyle, I have a few questions regarding your post about flooding low crop land fields.   First of all I assume you won't run afoul (pun intended) with the DNR regarding "artifically manipulating crop land" which could be looked at as baiting.   Secondly, how will the local water boards look at flooding what may be in a class 1 wetland?  Do you need to get a permit to build birms in a low area?
I realize each project will probably have to be reviewed and monitored etc. 
Lastly, do you have duck food plants/seeds that can be planted in standing water?  Lets say the water varies from a few inches to several feet.
Thanks,
***I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.***

Offline LandDr

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Thanks for the questions.

It is amazing how the powers to be have the "midwest hunters" believing that flooding crops like they do "down south" is baiting if we do the same thing "up north".  Growing up, I also believed that and I think I heard Dad and Grandpa telling me so.

A few years back I was on a conservation tour bus and there were two higher up USFW fellas sitting behind me and the conversation got onto flooding crops.  They assured me that "manually" flooding crops WAS NOT baiting.  I looked into it more as I wanted it in writing.  I did get it in writing but lost the paper somewhere.

A few months back I was giving a Waterfowl Management seminar at Gander Mt. in St. Cloud and one of the attendees was a DNR CO.  After the presentation, he more or less warned everyone that "manually" flooding crops was baiting.  I was polite about his comments and asked if we could "all get on the same page" and if we could get a copy of the actual law.  Him and I exchanged a few emails where he provided me a cut and paste text of the laws.

However, in the cut and paste that he provided me, it did not say that "mannually" flooded fields was considered baiting and it did not say that it was.  But he expressed that it was his interpretation of the law that "mannually" flooding crops IS baiting and he would issue a ticket for it.

I decided to contact the USFW service directly and actually contacted the main office in Virginia.  In summary, they told me directly that "manually' flooding a crop field IS NOT baiting.

I emailed that information to the CO and asked if he could forward this around to other COs so that we are all on the same page and no un-needed tickets where handed out.  I did not get a response from him and still have not received a response to this day.  Was he mad that he was wrong?

For the record...here is a copy of the information that I got directly from the main office of the USFW service pertaining to baiting...

Dear Kyle,

Thank you for your follow-up inquiry.

Our regulations state that you can hunt over standing crops that have been flooded, but they do not stipulate how that flooding occurred so, you can hunt over standing crops that have been flooded either manually or naturally.

Thank you for your cooperation in complying with our regulations that help protect fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats.  Please feel free to respond to this message with any further inquiries that you may have regarding this matter.             
_____________________________
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
4401 N. Fairfax Drive (Mailstop: LE-3000)
Arlington, Virginia  22203



Here is a copy of the law as well...

[color=blue]Waterfowl Hunting on Agricultural Lands

Agricultural lands offer prime waterfowl hunting opportunities. You can hunt waterfowl in fields of unharvested standing crops. You can also hunt over standing crops that have been flooded. You can flood fields after crops are harvested and use these areas for waterfowl hunting.

The presence of seed or grain in an agricultural area rules out waterfowl hunting unless the seed or grain is scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, normal agricultural harvesting, normal agricultural post-harvest manipulation, or normal soil stabilization practice.

Harvesting & Post-Harvest Manipulation
A normal agricultural harvest is undertaken for the purpose of gathering a crop. In general, the presence of long rows, piles, or other heavy concentrations of grain should raise questions about the legality of the area for waterfowl hunting.

A normal post-harvest manipulation first requires a normal agricultural harvest and removal of grain before any manipulation of remaining agricultural vegetation, such as corn stubble or rice stubble.

To be considered normal, an agricultural planting, agricultural harvesting, and agricultural post-harvest manipulation must be conducted in accordance with recommendations of the Cooperative Extension Service (i.e., planting dates, application rates, etc.). However, the Fish and Wildlife Service will continue to make final determinations about whether these recommendations were followed.

Hunters should be aware that normal harvesting practices can be unique to specific parts of the country. For example, swathing wheat crops is a part of the normal harvesting process recommended by the Cooperative Extension Service in some areas of the upper Midwest. During this process, wheat is cut, placed into rows, and left in the field for several days until it dries. Hunting waterfowl over a swathed wheat field during the recommended drying period is legal. It is illegal to hunt waterfowl over swathed wheat that becomes unmarketable or that is left in the field past the recommended drying period because these situations are not normal harvests.

Manipulation of Agricultural Crops
You cannot legally hunt waterfowl over manipulated agricultural crops except after the field has been subject to a normal harvest and removal of grain (i.e., post-harvest manipulation).

Manipulation includes, but is not limited to, such activities as mowing, shredding, discing, rolling, chopping, trampling, flattening, burning, or herbicide treatments. Grain or seed which is present as a result of a manipulation that took place prior to a normal harvest is bait. For example, no hunting could legally occur on or over a field where a corn crop has been knocked down by a motorized vehicle. Kernels of corn would be exposed and/or scattered.

If, for whatever reason, an agricultural crop or a portion of an agricultural crop has not been harvested (i.e., equipment failure, weather, insect infestation, disease, etc.) and the crop or remaining portion of the crop has been manipulated, then the area is a baited area and cannot be legally hunted for waterfowl. For example, no waterfowl hunting could legally occur on or over a field of sweet corn that has been partially harvested and the remainder mowed.[/color]



Lastly...to answer your question about options for waterfowl food.  Yes, we are currently harvesting Sago and Celery.  Sago requires 12 to 36 inches of water and Celery can be deeper.  We will be harvesting wild rice in September which requires 12 to 36 inches of water.  Shrimp will be in January again.  Here is a link to some more info...

http://www.habitatnow.com/store/shop/shop.php?pn_selected_category=19

Thanks and pass the word around on the flooded crops...I think it is a great option for Minnesota and just what alot of duck hunters are looking for!  Just got to get the word around.

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

Offline LandDr

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Permits to flood and berms in low areas...

No permits are required to flood an area except if you are pumping your water from a public water basin or protected water basin...such as a lake, stream or large pond.  My recommendation is to put a shallow well down and pump from it with a gas powered trash pump.

The main rule for wetlands is that you can't drain, burn or fill them (with dirt).  So pumping water into a basin is none of those.

However...the areas that I am really talking about for the flooding are not wetlands at all.  In fact they need to be dry enough to plant corn, beans, millet, etc.  To be that dry, they are probably not wetlands as the crop needs to be able to grow.  Look for depresional areas in upland locations that are land-locked or have a "pinch point" where you can close off the basin with a water control structure.

Putting a berm in a wetland could be construed as filling a wetland but I have always seen it looked at as a necessity to restore the wetland and it is done all of the time.  However, as mentioned above, I am thinking more of non-wetland sites where we can plant and grow a crop and then flood it with sheet water later on after the seed hardens up.

Anyone out there thinking of doing this this fall?  I would like to get some demonstration sites started so show what this can do.

Later

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

Offline HD

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I have thought about flooding one of my fields of corn, but the soil is sand and the field is flat. I would have to build a berm around the whole field.

I would have to keep a pump running continously to keep any amount of water in it.

So, I guess I won't........I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford the cost.

Hunter
Mama always said, If you ain't got noth'in nice to say, don't say noth'in at all!

Offline LandDr

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I have two farms that also have very sand soils.  I do have a couple of depressional areas that I planted to CanaMaize corn already and will try to hold some water in them this fall.  Water table in about 12 to 16 feet so I plant to put down a shallow well with a gas powered trash pump.  I will post how it turns out.

Sandy and flat do pose problems with flooding.  Not every site works.  However, you may want to consider some wheat or oats on either side or down the middle of your corn.  Harvest the crop and dig the stubble about 2 weeks prior to the opener.  This will allow for some green up and allow some time for the ducks/geese to find your field prior to the season.  They love the green up!

A good moldboard plow can make the berms you need for flooding.  Down south, they use equipment to "precision level" their fields and then use another piece of equipment to "plow in" the berms for holding water in these fields for their rice production.  After harvesting your corn or small grain crop, use a plow to put a 6 to 8 inch berms (more if you are good with your plow) following the contours...if you can get some elevation shots, that would help you know where your plow lines should be.  Keep in mind, you may be able to put in several of these...all you are trying to do is hold back 4 to 6 inches of water for some "sheet water".

Do you ever see standing water in your field in the spring or after a hard rain?

What is your township, range and section number of your property?  I will pull up the soils photo and see what you are dealing with.

Thanks!

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

Offline PJ Maguire

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LandDr,
I like how you roll. I have been talking about flooding fields for sometime. I just have to make enough scratch to be able to do it.
Where I'm from calling, flagging and decoying are just basic skills and the kids will do a little guiding just to pay off some bills.

www.waterfowlgrind.blogspot.com

Offline LandDr

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I just returned from a sport show down in St. Charles over the weekend and spoke to several people about flooding fields for waterfowl...along with alot of other discussions.

It is just amazing how everyone thinks that it is illegal to plant a crop and flood it.  The COs and DNR have really brainwashed everyone from our grandfathers to our fathers to us.  Flooding crops is a regular practice all over the USA except for the midwest.  They have us beliveing that flooding crops is not a "normal farming practice" and therefore is baiting.

As the copied text above directly from the USFW main office in Virginia will attest, flooding crop land manually or naturally is not baiting.

Here is the actual email along with their contact info and email address for autheticy...I would recommend everyone to print it out and carry it with them or have it in your truck if you plan to hunt flooded crops...just so you have some validation along.

If anyone is going to try flooding crops this year, I would love to have some posts on it to hear your results.

Take care

Kyle, PLM...USFW email to follow below...


----- Original Message -----
From: R9LE_WWW@fws.gov
To: HabitatNOW.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Baiting waterfowl



Dear Kyle,

Thank you for your follow-up inquiry.

Our regulations state that you can hunt over standing crops that have been flooded, but they do not stipulate how that flooding occurred so, you can hunt over standing crops that have been flooded either manually or naturally.

Thank you for your cooperation in complying with our regulations that help protect fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats.  Please feel free to respond to this message with any further inquiries that you may have regarding this matter.             
_____________________________
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
4401 N. Fairfax Drive (Mailstop: LE-3000)
Arlington, Virginia  22203