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Author Topic: All of these topics are boring, I have a better idea.  (Read 12079 times)

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Offline Ace

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Early season Muskie tactics,

Bucktails are always a good choice in the spring for Muskies, however there are some other presenations that also work very well in the post spawn/cold water period. ;D

Spinnerbaits excell in cooler water temps as do big spoons and minnow style crankbaits.
Most so called Muskie experts advise you to"Downsize" your baits in the spring time.
I must agree that down sizing is an option in the early part of the season, however action and speed also play a major roll in inticing lathargic post spawn fish into biting.

When I'm throwing "hair" in cold water I keep the speed at a moderate level to keep the fish from "giving up" on my bait.  They just don't want to chase a bait as far as they would say, during the summer peak, when the water temps are at their highest levels of the season.  The same thing applies if you are using a crankbait.  Instead of cranking it down and ripping it in, you "Twitch it" and let the bait rise and fall at a slower speed.

Spring time is also a great time for those slow moving topwater baits.  I love to work a
jackpot or a walking Tom or even a Weagal on a cool crisp early summer morning. Some other good baits, Creepers, or Hogwobblers and topraiders. Just work them SLLOOOWW and if you think you're going slow enough, slow it down some more. :whistling:

"Ace":happy1:
 
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
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Offline kingfisher1

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Lets see how you do with this topic:

What are your techniques for fishing spring and summer stream trout?  More specifically, trout over 12 inches. 
walleyes, pannies, esox, cats, I don't care, let's go fishing!!

Offline Ace

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I didn't realize it was a contest? training-087

If you'll check out my original post I didn't mention anything about trout fishing of any kind. They aren't one of the species that I fish for.  the only stream trout around Vermilion are native Brookies and they are all about 8 inches long. I have caught them with a worm or a small mepps spinner when I was a kid. :sorry:

We all have our limitations.

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
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Offline kingfisher1

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Sorry, I missed that.  I haven't read the origonal post since it was posted  :sorry:  so it was mostly my fault.  I just thought I'd throw you a curve ball and see if you could answer it.
walleyes, pannies, esox, cats, I don't care, let's go fishing!!

Offline 22lex

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Lets see how you do with this topic:

What are your techniques for fishing spring and summer stream trout?  More specifically, trout over 12 inches. 
:rotflmao:

Ace I can help;

In the spring I generally fish the larger portion of the root river before the trout find the "summer holes" where it's cooler. Big floating rapala's, and mister twister/gulp worms work real well on the rivers for the "big fish". Four or five casts a hole, and keep moving so you can cover tons of ground. Six foot light rod, 6 or 8 pound ultrathin line so you can cast a mile.

Summer mornings and evenings are the best using a little smaller floating rapala's with more herky jerky faster retrieve to trigger a strike. Same concept, move alot, cast as far as you can and retrieve up/down/cross current until you figure out what they like.

Flyfishing early season you can use muddler minnows, or bigger nymphs to catch bigger fish. All on the root river of course.

And if you get down to SEMN, visit Trout Run. This is the best brown fishery in our area, and in my mind the state. Per square mile I've never seen as many fish as this one. Biggest fish out of Trout Run that I have seen: 31 inches, 11 pounds. Only catch, flyfisherman's paradise, and only good after it rains for spinfisherman 'cause they are a little finicky and the water is usually crystal clear.
Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard on a cold night, she can still survive.
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Offline Woody

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Ace, I've always used live bait rigs all my life when fishing for mainly walleye.  Occasionally I'll throw out a daredevil for northern.  For years now everyone has been talking about throwing raps, shad raps, and the such.  I've gotten a few wet-but no success.  I rarely used artificials. Can you explain/teach me the best you can on how to properly fish them?  Typically I troll on less windy days, and drift on nice breezy ones.   

I really don't know what I'm doing with artificials and feel I'm missing out BIG TIME.  I feel there has to be more too it that throwing it out and reeling back in.  Because it hasn't worked for me.   :banghead:  Thanks in advance!  :happy1:
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~Thomas Jefferson



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Offline Ace

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Ace, thats really neat that you would share some of your knowledge. Thanks! My question is; What time of year do you use rapala style plugs for walleye, What brand works best for you, and what depths do you target?

Hey Laker,
To answer the first part of you question.
Walleyes will hit crankbaits any time of the season, from opening day, until the ice-up.  Minnow style baits like the Husky jerk and the original rapala, or the shadrap and the new minnow raps, will excell early in the year, when the water temps are cool. 

The main reason for that, is that their normal prey that time of year is minnows of one kind or another.  Nothing is cut in stone however, minnow style baits will generally out fish the shorter, rounder bodied baits, early in the season. Just remember that there is no such thing as always or never, when it comes to any kind of fishing.  Don't ever hesitate to try different body styles of crankbaits at different times during the season.

Here on Vermilon we have several species of bait fish, that Walleyes will target at one time of the year or another.  They all
roam the main basin of the lake and we see a lot of suspened Walleyes during the summer peak.  I do a lot of open water trolling from late summer into the early fall. For this application my favorite lure, by far, is the shadrap.  It immitates the forage base (tulibees,whitefish and perch) to a tee.  The subtle action and it's ability to get down to almost 20ft on regular tackle, makes them my top pick.
:toast:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
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www.h2otackle.com
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Offline Ace

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Hey 22lex
:help:

Thanks for the help on the steam trout question, it's always good to know that someones got your back. :blues brothers:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
www.glittertail.com
www.ducktaillures.com
www.hawgseekers.com

Offline 22lex

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Great info. Ace! I'm the same as Jeff as I have never had much success with shad raps or cranks for walleye and only used live rigs when we target them.

Thanks! :happy1:
Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard on a cold night, she can still survive.
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Offline Woody

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 :bonk:  That just goes to show what little I know-I couldn't even think of the term-crankbait.  Brainfart I guess.  :scratch:  Thanks Ace. 

22Lex, maybe we should start a group that meets once a week and discuss our crankbait deficiencies.  Kinda like AA.

"My name is Jeff, and I suck at using crankbaits and raps......"  :rotflmao:
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~Thomas Jefferson



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Offline 22lex

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:bonk:  That just goes to show what little I know-I couldn't even think of the term-crankbait.  Brainfart I guess.  :scratch:  Thanks Ace. 

22Lex, maybe we should start a group that meets once a week and discuss our crankbait deficiencies.  Kinda like AA.

"My name is Jeff, and I suck at using crankbaits and raps......"  :rotflmao:
:rotflmao:

That's the ticket...."Hello, I am Alex and raps are not my friend....(cue clapping)"

You know, I throw crankbaits and sticks for bass just fine, it's just everytime I head out with buddies for walleye (lack of boat) I basically use what they are because I believe they know everything 'bout walleye fishing (had no knowledge until previously)...I know I can change!

Great meeting, until next time Jeff....lex
Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard on a cold night, she can still survive.
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Offline Woody

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We're gonna need more members...so they can bring the beverages!  :toast:
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~Thomas Jefferson



Got Freedom? Thank a Vet!!!
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Offline 22lex

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Sorry for Bogarting your thread Ace, I really came in here to ask an open water question.

My brother and I are heading up to the north shore area sometime next year. We plan on hitting a couple of the inland lakes north/northwest of Tofte that I canoed on this past year and had minimal success using crankbaits (with my wife along...and then it rained).  :cry:

My question is what time of the year would be the most productive for walleye and/or big northern for some of these inland lakes? Early spring...late spring? The lake we were on was loaded with walleye as it only took two casts and I reeled one in, and I know of a few near there that I think would also be productive. Some insight from the "far north" is much appreciated!

Thanks,
Alex
Marry an outdoors woman. Then if you throw her out into the yard on a cold night, she can still survive.
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Offline Ace

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Ace, I've always used live bait rigs all my life when fishing for mainly walleye.  Occasionally I'll throw out a daredevil for northern.  For years now everyone has been talking about throwing raps, shad raps, and the such.  I've gotten a few wet-but no success.  I rarely used artificials. Can you explain/teach me the best you can on how to properly fish them?  Typically I troll on less windy days, and drift on nice breezy ones.   

I really don't know what I'm doing with artificials and feel I'm missing out BIG TIME.  I feel there has to be more too it that throwing it out and reeling back in.  Because it hasn't worked for me.   :banghead:  Thanks in advance!  :happy1:

Hey Jeff,
Artifical baits can be tough to master for a number of reasons, however it's primarily just a question of giving them enough time in the water.  I to was once just like you grasshopper, just a simple live bait fisherman. :blablabla:

You don't need hundreds of baits to get started and most of them are very simple to use successfully.  There are 4 species of fish that I NEVER, EVER use anything but artificals to catch.  Muskies, Smallies,
Largemouth and Northern Pike.  They will all readily hit artificals at anytime of the year and in all kinds of conditions. Most Walleye fisherman spend all of their time with livebait presenations and there are certain times during the season when an
artifical presenation will totaly out fish a livebait rig, of any kind. :fishing2:

The main obstacle in your quest is simply a lack of confidence.  Afterall, we all like to stay within our own comfort zone in our persuit of fish.  Once you let yourself
go and just do it, you'll wonder why you waited so long.  :scratch:

Pike,
I like to compare Northerns to blondes.
Yea that's right, Blondes. All you have to do is show them something shinny and you'll have them in your power. :rotflmao:

Pike will hit a variety of presentations, so
it isn't necessary to go to extremes to trick them into biting.  My favorite baits for Pike are all very simple to opporate and they are all very effective when used at the right time.  Spinnerbaits are far and away, the best Pike bait that human man ever invented.  They work in shallow water, deep water, cold water, warm water, clear water and dark water.  They will catch fish all season long, day time, night time, any time.  They also can be fished in ugly places, where other baits fear to tread.  You can reel them fast or slow, but the key is to let the fish tell you how they want it.  Speed kills!! Pike will more times than not, want something at high speed.

Spoons have there place, however most spoons become less effective when the water temperature rises in the summer.
Jerkbaits like the Husy jerk, or original rapalas are great pike catchers, However try throwing one into a weedbed or over a tree limb, they will most likely get hung up. They do have there places, however a thick weedbed or shallow pads is not one of those places.

Buzzbaits are also great pike fishing tools. They will go into some nasty places just like the spinnerbait and you can get them back. Besides, there isn't anything cooler than watching a big Pike hammer a topwater lure!! :dancinred:

Smallmouth bass will also hit a number of different artifical presenations, from a jig to a topwater.  By the way, they will also hit a spinnerbait.  They will hit  all kinds of topwaters, from poppers to buzzbaits and walk the dog style baits to floating rapalas. Throw them along the shoreline or over the top of a rockpile in deep water and hold on. It's not really an uncommon site to see a Smallie come up from 10 or 15ft to hit a surface bait, or smack a shallow running crankbait. You won't believe how much more fun that is
than watching your bobber go down!! :happybounce:

If you can find fish with live bait, you can catch those same fish on an artifical most of the time.  Walleye fishermen all know what a mayfly hatch can do to the bite. Using artifical presenations during a hatch can be some of the absolute best fishing of the entire season. I relish the mayfly hatch, it puts them into a feeding frenzy.  Next time you start seeing those mayflys on your locator, put away that lindy rig and try pulling some cranks into those bugs.  You won't believe how those same fish you couldn't get to bite your crawler a minute ago, will rip into that crankbait presenation.  Fast moving baits, are the answer to your bug hatching blues and you will typically catch a much better average fish on that crankbait, than you'll get on live bait.

So, get yourself a coupe of rigs that you can cast a spinnerbait with. A medium to medium heavy action 7ft rod, spinning or casting, depends on your preference. I use 14lb fireline crystal for most of my Pike rods, however a 12 to 17lb mono will also do the job.  I don't use a leader, it's just not necessary most of the time with a spinnerbait.  You may get biten off on a rare occasion, however the action that you get without one, will get you alot more good bites besides, spinnerbaits are cheap.

For crankbaits I would recommend a medium light to medium action 7ft rod with a fast tip.
Again, spinning or casting, it's up to you.  Put some 10lb mono, or an 8lb florocarbon or even some 10 to 14lb braid on it. Floro sinks so you can get a little better depth on your cast with a floro, same thing with the braid.  I use all three on different rods, it just depends on the application and which bait I'm throwing.  There you have it in a nutshell. All you need to do is commit yourself to doing it.  The more you do it, the more you will learn grasshopper. :scratch:

"Ace"  :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
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Offline Ace

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I almost forgot.
The wind is a huge factor when casting artificals for Walleyes. Work the windblown points and shorelines, as well as any submerged structures, like reefs and rockpiles.  Walleye will also hold on weed lines and most walleye anglers bypass that particular presenation. Casting deep running cranks, or a swimbait along the outside weed edges, can be a real bonanza at times. :dancinred:

"Ace" :happy1:

Now go out and spend a bunch of money on crankbaits, and maybe some therapy! :drinking:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
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Offline Woody

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Thanks Ace!  Therapy in a 12oz bottle.  :drinking:
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~Thomas Jefferson



Got Freedom? Thank a Vet!!!
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Offline Ace

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You are very welcome Jeff,

Anyone have any other questions they need answered?  I'm starting to go a little stir crazy with this long cold winter.  I need something to do and running my mouth about fishing is one of my favorite passtimes. :blablabla:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
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Offline ironranger29

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 oh man i hear ya! Ice needs to melt already. I'm really lookin forward to hoodoo pt again. Last year i was averaging around 20 eyes a day! And i was on shore! Sad thing is if i reeled up one when a boat was near they would come in 20' from shore and try to take over! Even casted into a guys boat once and almost got into  training-087 over it! Some people really are just  :bonk:...   
 Its one of those things that really drives me   :taz:.  This year i'll just bring my salmon rod and a 12" Rap and cast that at em instead  :moon:....

Offline Ace

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 :doah:
I am seldom surprised any more by the shear stupidity of some anglers.
Especially on opening day in Pike bay.

It's to bad that they have to ruin the experence for others.  I have a little spot I have been fishing on the opener for about 30 years. It's off the beaten track and we used to have it all to ourselves back in the day.

Now as soon as anybody sees us catch a fish, they are on us like white on rice.  They aren't even very polite about it either.  They come in and cast right next to the boat, after dropping their anchor within 10 feet of my boat. :bonk:

I only spend a couple of hours in there now.  We move as soon as the idiots start to arrive. :doah:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
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Offline JCAMERON

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It's a shame that people act like that. I would be so dang embarrassed to crowd around somebody after seeing them catch some fish. If I want to fish a spot that is known for holding fish I would rather get up long before the crack of dawn and put in the extra effort to get there early to catch fish. You would sound like such a jack :censored: saying, "Well I saw this guy catching some fish, so I pulled right up next to him and started catching 'em." How much cooler is it when you can say, "Well there were a few guys fishing where I had planned, so I pulled out the map and got us on a different spot. And we caught fish!"

Its like some people think it's not a good day fishing without catching.

"Superior... never gives up her dead when the gales of November come early."

Offline BiggA

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Alright how about some basics. I would like to do some walleye fishing but have never been taught anything about it. fishing as a kid was either sucker minnows or worms under a bobber. The only 2 times in my life I have caught a walleye one was fishing the river just using a crawler on the bottom trying to catch suckers. The other was trolling rapalas on rainy lake. Any advice would be greatly apreciated!

Offline Ace

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Hey BiggA,
There are a variety of different ways to catch Walleyes. Where they are located, depth, structure, cover, will often dictate what presenation you should use.  There in lies the mystery of the Walleye.  Finding them is what most wanabe Walleye anglers will struggle with. :banghead:

Once you locate them, they aren't really that difficult to catch and they are very predictable in their seasonal movements.  It's just like any other game fish species, you have to learn a little bit about them to understand how to catch them on a consistent
basis.

Most Walleye anglers are livebait fisherman and there isn't anything wrong with that approch.  Walleyes
can be caught on jigs, slip bobbers and lindy rigs. Spinners with leeches or minnows or even crawlers can be very effective when used at the right time. In spingtime, Walleyes are for the most part in shallow water where they are typically easy to locate and easy to catch.

Jigs tipped with minnows are one of the most popular spingtime baits in the minds of many Walleye anglers.
Jigs excell in cold water situations and they do a good job of presenting a bait to aggressive fish. You can use a jig for casting or pitching, however they are at their absolute very best when presented vertically. You always have to see what the fish want but in cold water Walleyes typically want it slow and vertical, tipped with some kind of live bait, usually a minnow is your best choice in the early season.

Slip bobbers are also a good way to present a live bait early in the season and at times, it will out fish many other presentations. It isn't what I'd use to locate Walleyes, however once you have found them, it can be a stone killer.  A slip bobber rig allows you to fish a vertical presentation on groups of fish, concentrated in one area.  It also allows you to hang your bait in their face for an extended period of time which even when they may not be on a real active bite, will entice them to eat.

Typicall slip bobber locations would be reefs, rock piles, mainlake points or rock walls, or even weed lines. Especially when the wind is blowing into, or over those type structures.
Early and late in the day, cloudy skies or windy conditions are you best bet for really pounding some Walleyes on a slip bobber rig.

Lindy rigs are simple to tie, however they can be tough to master for many anglers.  They will work all year long, however they are at their best during the mid summer peak, when a
high percentage of the Walleyes are relating to mainlake structures, out in deeper water.  Many anglers have their own ideas, as to just what a lindy rigs is.  A plain lindy rig consist of a slip sinker above a swivel, with a leader (as short as 2ft, or as long as 8ft) tied to the swivel, with a plain hook, maybe a bead above the hook in dark or stained water conditions.

The fish will tell you how long your leader should be. A 3 to 4ft snell is a good place to start for most applications.  You can effectively fish a number of different live bait types on a lindy rig, minnows, leeches and crawlers can all be very effective when used at the right time. Lindys can be used in shallow water and in deep water. When fishing shallow you'll want to use a lighter weight on the rig. In very deep water or windy conditions you'll want to go to a heavier weight for better control.

There is also trolling with crankbaits for Walleyes. Contour trolling, or you can catch them trolling out in the main basin, for suspened Walleyes.
Then there is bottom bouncers and 3-way rigs, did I mention hand lining?
You can also cast crankbaits to catch Walleyes up in shallow water, or in current areas. :scratch:  There is really no end to the number of different ways to catch a Walleye, but
before you catch them, you have to find them, and that my friend, is a whole other story :coffee:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
www.glittertail.com
www.ducktaillures.com
www.hawgseekers.com

Offline BiggA

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Thanks Ace!   So obviously nothing is certain but it sounds like early spring look for walleye to be shallow and go deeper as the water warms? I was under the impression they are deep water fish and bouncing bait off the bottom is the best way to get after them.

Offline ChrisWallace

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Ace-
Im heading to manitoba fishing for pike this summer. The resort owner flat out told me that Im not allowed to fish with bulldawgs or any other style of swimbaits because they said that they have killed more trophy pike in one year than the previous five years combined with mepps.

If bulldawgs were truly fish killers, why would they be so accepted and used so much in the musky world?

I fish dawgs/suzys/shaqs 90% of my time on the water and I havent had any issues with hooks being an issue on them. I do have no problem cutting a barb or two and junking them for the fish's sake.

just had me curious if you have heard anything about them being big fish killers.

Offline Ace

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Hey BiggA,
Walleyes in lakes typically start their season in shallow spawming areas or feeder creeks.  Water temp is always an issue, however after they have spawned, food is their main concern.

There is typically a normal summer progression from shallow to deep in most lakes. There will however always be some walleyes deep in the spring and shallow in the summer. They can't read fishing magazines or watch fishing shows. Sometimes they will be where you least expect them
to be. Just remember that there is no such thing as "Always" or "Never", when it comes to fishing. :doah:

"Ace" :happy1:
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Offline Ace

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Hey Chris,
Can't say that I have ever heard that Bulldawgs were big fish killers. I use them myself and have for a number of years.  I would really doubt that a "Swimbait style" of lure would cause fish to die at an excelerated rate.  They only have a single hook in most cases.

I also wasn't aware that a resort owner could forbid the use of these baits.  Before I gave them up I would call the local fisheries manager and see what he had to say about it.  In my many years of using Bulldawgs, I  can't remember ever having one kill a Muskie, or a Pike for that matter.

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
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(218) 753-2612

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Offline timmy

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hello ace.
First of all thanks for all the wonderful advice on the forum.
I was thinking of heading to the rainy river this spring to try to catch some monster walleye or maybe even a sturgeon. I have never fished the rainy and was wondering what the best time of year was to get a monster eye, where to launch/fish, and what typically would be the best presantation.
Thanks

Offline Ace

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Hey Timmy,
Timming is everything when you fish the Rainy river.  You'll want to go just as soon as the river opens up and you can use the boat launches. :titanic:

It starts at Birchdale an then moves down stream to frontier.
That's about 8 miles or so down stream from Birchdale.
The best fishing is usually close to where the ice is going out.

Birchdale will be very crowded
until frontier opens up. You may have to walk a long way to get back to the ramp after you park you truck. Not as bad if you can go during the week but weekends are always a big mess, most of the time. :bonk:

You'll want to go before the Big and Little fork rivers open up.  It really muddies up the water in the Rainy and the Walleye action just shuts off.

You can go up stream towards the dam, but it can be a dangerous ride if you don't know the river very well. Lots of rocks and shallow bars that can remove your lower unit for you.

Without a doubt, jigs/minnows or jigs with gulp
are the go to bait on the river.
If you find a group of Walleyes drop you anchor up stream of them and let your jigs float in to them.  Or you can slip drift with the trolling motor, but you want to fish sloooow and as vertical as possible. :fishing2:

"Ace" :happy1:
Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace Guide Service.
Beautiful Lake Vermilion.
Muskies and More.
Member Lake Vermilion guides league
www.aceguideservice.com
(218) 753-2612

Pro staff.
Ace muskie leaders
www.h2otackle.com
www.glittertail.com
www.ducktaillures.com
www.hawgseekers.com

Offline timmy

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Thanks ace, hope I can get up there mid week to avoid all the people. :happy1: