close all the hatcheries???

[trout whisperer]

Close all Minnesota DNR fish hatcheries?

    A bill was introduced this week in the Minnesota House of Representatives that would require the Department of Natural Resources to close all of its fish hatcheries by the year 2014. The lead author of the bill is Rep. Denny McNamara (R-St. Paul), and Rep. David Dill (DFL-Crane Lake) is a co-author.

    The Department of Natural Resources raises most of the fish it stocks, although it buys some from private hatcheries. One of the state's coldwater hatcheries is at French River.

    "[The bill] was introduced so we could have the discussion," Dill said Friday. "It certainly doesn't mean we don't want to stock as much as we've ever stocked. The private producers think they can do it cheaper, and the DNR admits they can do it cheaper."

    The bill is House File No. 1143.

        As written, the bill calls for hatcheries to reduce production 20 percent from 2008 levels in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.

     It also calls for the DNR to close two of its three tree nurseries within two years, and close the third by 2014.

   

       

 

   


Posted by: samcook on 2/27/2009 at 3:05 PM | Comments (0) | Permalink

[MnSportsman]

I am curious....
You ask a question when you put this topic out for folks to read, but make no comment on your own view ...

Fishin' ?

[MnSportsman]

OK... I'll bite...

If the private hatcheries can provide for the States' needs & it is less expensive. I think there shouldn't be any trouble with shutting the States' hatcheries down.
 Although , it will take away from some educational opportunities for school kids to go see how the State runs it's hatcheries. I believe that in years past, the State allowed for field trip tours for school kids & other groups to come & tour these hatcheries.
That would be a loss I would think....

[holdemtwice]

 ok this is not ment to ruffle any feathers  ........
 so  IMO  i say cllose them down.  if it saves the DNR  money  let them spend whatb they saved on other programs !!!  if you want tours  , the private  growers  i am sure would allow them. it may be just a mtter of contacting them. I deal with a couple myself ! i think anywhere we can save  lets try it ! if it doesnt work  , they (DNR) can always reopen their hatcheries ! 

 i hope this doesnt ruffle too many feathers , this is just my take !
 
 holdemtwice

[BiggA]

Shut them down. Every thing the state has its fingers in cost more than it should it seems. The only negative would be the hatchery decide well the state has no choice but to buy from us so were gonna jack the price.

[22lex]

Shut 'em down. If they can do it efficiently, and at a better rate than the DNR, give 'em a go at it. More money for private hatcheries, more revenue in the state (hopefully).

The only thing I remember about the DNR fish hatchery visit when I went in sixth grade, was how I could get one of those 12 pound "breeder browns" out of there without a beating from my dad. Otherwise for other youngsters, yes I think it will be missed as an educational tool.

[JohnWester]

i agree, shut them down.  It's about time it is put out to a private business.  That way it will be ran as a business, and not a government, bloated waste.  Not to change subjects here, and it should be another thread... but the same could be said for schools, and most of the other government services.

Good bill... hope it get s some consideration.

[JohnWester]

and by the way... Denny is from Hastings, not St. Paul.  He lives right down the street from me.

[Auggie]

Shut them down. No question about it.

[Ace]

I'm afraid I don't agree with the assessment that this is a better way to do things.  look what happened when then military went to private sector
contractors in Iraq, it cost us millions of dollars.

Once the hatcheries are closed what do you think will happen to the price?  I also think it's a
big difference between people that care about their resorce (the DNR) and companys that only care about their bottom line. I think quality control will become an issue as well.

I like the fact that the Walleyes they stock in Lake Vermilion, are taken from the same gene pool as the fish that are naturaly spawning in the lake.  I think it would be a huge mistake to outsorce all of our stocking to a private company.

Imagine all the crooks(polititions) with their hands in your pockets, when it comes to chosing which company gets the contracts for all these fish.  Cost less?? Yea right

"Ace"

[beeker]

I would like to see who owns the private stock ponds that this contract will go to and if they are the ones lobbying for this change.

[JohnWester]

you bring up some good points Ace...

[Mayfly]

I agree with almost everything that has been said in this thread. It comes down to pros and cons in each situation. Someone needs to find which option has less cons and I do not know.

[Bobby Bass]

My thoughts are and if the privates raise their prices? or even worse go out of business... What about all the knowlwdge and experence that the dnr has in it's employees working the hatcheries. We lose that when they lose their jobs. That and the once you give up something it is very hard to ever get it back.

[Auggie]

Ace, you bring up some valid points. But the government proves everyday how inefficient it is. As for job loss these people would most likely end up working for or running the the private sector hatcheries. Maybe some of our shallow lakes in the southern part of the state that shouldn't have walleyes or any other fish for that matter would revert back to being duck ponds like they once were instead of fish rearing ponds for the DNR. I don't think the price could change all that much if enough growers are in competition. The state could and would regulate it enough that theses fish would have to stay in state and keep the price down anyway.

[TNT]

here is an example of what ace is talking about.
 

 

 


Fence Repair At The White House


Three  contractors are bidding to fix a broken fence at The White House  in D.C.

One from New Jersey (OR MAYBE HE IS FROM ILLINOIS), another from Tennessee and the  third, from Florida .

They go with a White House Official to examine the fence.



The Florida contractor takes out a tape  measure and does some measuring, then works some figures

with a  pencil. "Well," he says, "I figure the job will run about $900:

$400 for materials, $400 for my crew and $100 profit for me." 



The Tennessee contractor also does some measuring and figuring,  then says,

"I can do this job for $700: $300 for materials, $300  for my crew and $100 profit for me."



The New Jersey contractor doesn't measure or figure, but leans over to the White House official

and whispers, "$2,700."   The official, incredulous, says, "You didn't even measure like the other guys! 

How did you come up with such a high figure?"  The New Jersey contractor  whispers back,

"$1000 for me, $1000 for you, and we hire the guy  from Tennessee to fix the fence."

"Done!", replies the government official.



And that, my friends, is how it all works!
 
 
 

[Bobby Bass]

  trouble is, the real price would be more like 27,000!

[tomcat]

I am not sure about the private sector raising fish for us . Heres one reason why I feel the way I do. Recently Minn received some fish that had a deceased from Wisc. Will the DNR monitor these private Hatcheries?

[IKE311]

 I know Denny very well, I use to work for him. Why does he want to shut the nurseries down? Maybe because he owns one that does work fpr MNDOT,IDOT and not sure who else. Who is it really benefiting?

[Ace]

Call me synical, but this idea is a result of somebody looking to make something from it. I doubt they just sat down one day and said, "Gee I wonder what we could do to save the state some money"

More likely it went like this....
"Hey I know a way we can all make a lot of money off the state of Minnesota".

Corruption and kick backs are as old as politics it's self. This would just open the door for a few more kick backs to those polititions, that control these contracts.  I can't believe it is going to be a good thing for MN in the long run.  When was the last time any politition showed a real concern about how our money is spent? Look at the deficite we have now.

I bet if you searched long enough, you would find some kind of connection between the people pushing for this change and the people standing to benifit from it.

I know it sounds pretty synical to some of you, but at my age I have learned one thing to be true, you can't "ever" trust a politition, for anything, when there is money involved.
JMHO!

"Ace"

[cheeseheadtab]

this looks like a good place to put the $5.00 walleye stamp money. it will help them close them earlier & than they can put all that money into the general state fund so the politicians can spend it with the rest of the stimulus money. at least thats the way good old doyle would do it in cheeseland.

[GRIZ]

    "[The bill] was introduced so we could have the discussion," Dill said Friday. "It certainly doesn't mean we don't want to stock as much as we've ever stocked. The private producers think they can do it cheaper, and the DNR admits they can do it cheaper."

    The bill is House File No. 1143.

        As written, the bill calls for hatcheries to reduce production 20 percent from 2008 levels in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.

     It also calls for the DNR to close two of its three tree nurseries within two years, and close the third by 2014.

   

       

 

   


Posted by: samcook on 2/27/2009 at 3:05 PM | Comments (0) | Permalink

I've known for 25 yrs private sector could do it cheaper. When I was in it I figured I could do it for a bit over 50% what it cost them. I agree with some points made on the way bids are handled with the goverment and how corrupt it could be. It wouldn't and shouldn't be a deal where one place gets the entire contract. Nobody is that big anyhow.

Have increments of how many fingerlings to a contract (say 10-20 K)and each bid would state a price and how many contracts they would take. A bid bond or insurance would be supplied along with the submitted bid. Open bidding up to anyone haveing a current hatchery lic. They wouldn't be able to bid for any more than they have registered waters. That's why one outfit couldn't handle it. I don't see any problems as the bids should sealed bids open to the public.

The DNR would need biologists yet to monitor fish for disease and what not from private sector. I think that they should also keep some of the hatcheries open. Then in certain waters where they want the same fish in the same lake they could plant the fry right to the lake. They could hatch enough eggs to plant fry, I don't think they screw that up too bad. Isn't too much to screw up.

Where they really mess things up is trying to turn fry into fingerlings. I've watched them plant millions of fry into a pond after being told they'd never get them out. They never did get any out but the pond was loaded with'em. Yup next yr they tried to plant it again thus just feeding the yearlings that were already in there with some walleye fry. They did so saying it must not have took the yr before.

I've watched them pull up to a pond with trucks, boats and nets. Only time they even got out of the truck was to take a leak and get another beer. They didn't know me and the pond owner were watching with our binocs from the kitchen window. Next day the owner went to the fisheries and inquired about the pond did. The answer was they pulled the net twice and never got a single one. Oh they did get out with a 5 gal bucket and pour some water on the net so it looked like they made an attempt, threw some seaweed in the boat just for good measure.

[LandDr]

I own a private company that does habitat work.

I am curious why people so often think the private sector is out to make an "easy buck" and it is a get rich quick deal?

On average private sector people work longer hours and more days for the pay they get.  GM corporate and banking execs excluded of course. :)

Yet, no one considers how much money government employees make and the incredible retirement benefits they get...in other words, even when they are done working they still get paid.

Who is really making the big bucks here?  Just because government people sometimes don't charge for their services doesn't mean they aren't making money.

The majority of the private sector people are not rich and do what they do because they have a passion and a dedication.

We need more private businesses creating jobs and paying taxes.  That is a good thing.

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

[7outof10]

i say ....close them down ....the dnr is a big big black money hole .....you can keep puting it in but nothing comes out lol ....

[Ace]

 
A big black money hole that nothing ever comes out of????

Where did those nice Walleyes come from in your avitar??

The DNR has developed one of the best fisheries in the entire country in the last several years here in Minnesota.  I'm almost 60 and I can't remember
when the fishing state wide has been any better than it is right now.  Have you taken the
fishery that we have here in Minnesota for granted?  I guess you just figured that it's always been this good.

I get people from all over the country, that have been dreaming for years about coming to fish in Minnesota, so even they know how special it is.  That's a real shame when the people that live here can't appreciate the great work our DNR has done.  We have a "world class" fishery because of those dollars and people that care more about the future of our fisheries, than the bottom line of their fish farm.

If the hatcheries are closed, we will pay for it, one way or another.

"Ace"

[KTapper]

Well said ACE! 

[7outof10]

A big black money hole that nothing ever comes out of????

Where did those nice Walleyes come from in your avitar??

The DNR has developed one of the best fisheries in the entire country in the last several years here in Minnesota.  I'm almost 60 and I can't remember
when the fishing state wide has been any better than it is right now.  Have you taken the
fishery that we have here in Minnesota for granted?  I guess you just figured that it's always been this good.

I get people from all over the country, that have been dreaming for years about coming to fish in Minnesota, so even they know how special it is.  That's a real shame when the people that live here can't appreciate the great work our DNR has done.  We have a "world class" fishery because of those dollars and people that care more about the future of our fisheries, than the bottom line of their fish farm.

If the hatcheries are closed, we will pay for it, one way or another.

"Ace"

they came out of of a lake up north that the dnr takes eggs out of to stock other lakes with so no they where not stocked by the dnr  ........

[7outof10]

i might of went a little over bord with big back money hole ........there is a lot of wasted money in there one of my frinds use to be a head guy that the south mn dnr office and that is what he told me that the drn could get  LOT more fish for there money if they did not grow them but would just over see a little bit to make shure that they where geting good fish

[Ace]

7outa10,
I live on Vermilion within sight of the Walleye hatchery.  Even though Walleye eggs are taken to stock other lakes.  The DNR also stocks around 40,000,000 walleye fry back into Vermilion.
So it may well have been a fish that was stocked buy the DNR  that you caught. 

"Ace"

[7outof10]

I'm afraid I don't agree with the assessment that this is a better way to do things.  look what happened when then military went to private sector
contractors in Iraq, it cost us millions of dollars.

Once the hatcheries are closed what do you think will happen to the price?  I also think it's a
big difference between people that care about their resorce (the DNR) and companys that only care about their bottom line. I think quality control will become an issue as well.

I like the fact that the Walleyes they stock in Lake Vermilion, are taken from the same gene pool as the fish that are naturaly spawning in the lake.  I think it would be a huge mistake to outsorce all of our stocking to a private company.
 

Imagine all the crooks(polititions) with their hands in your pockets, when it comes to chosing which company gets the contracts for all these fish.  Cost less?? Yea right

"Ace"

now all of the numbers that i have here are from the DNRs web site last year in lakes in crow wing county the DNR stocked 45,045 walleye fingerlings from private company's and over in douglas county they stocked 59,286 of walleye fingerlings from a private company's now that is over 100,000 in fingerlings stocked in just TWO county's here in mn and.  the dnr is going to be useing even more private walleyes this year to and have been using them for years and years i looked back at one of the lakes that i got the numbers from and they and been using privately raised walleyes since 2002 .....so that would make the fish they put in that year to be 7 years old now......but keep in minde that the county's i used did not have any really really big lakes like vermilion ........

 so just maby like you said the fish in my avitar where stocked .....but from a private company