Recent

Check Out Our Forum Tab!

Click On The "Forum" Tab Under The Logo For More Content!
If you are using your phone, click on the menu, then select forum. Make sure you refresh the page!

The views of the poster, may not be the views of the website of "Minnesota Outdoorsman" therefore we are not liable for what our members post, they are solely responsible for what they post. They agreed to a user agreement when signing up to MNO.

Author Topic: The Department of Defense has cut off sales of spent cartridge cases to U.S.  (Read 5250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BigBob

  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
Cartridge Case
Claim: The Department of Defense has cut off sales of spent cartridge cases to U.S. ammunition manufacturers.

Example:   [Collected via e-mail, March 2009]

Georgia Arms is the 5th largest retailer of .223 Ammo in America. (they sell 9 mm, .45, etc ammo)

They normally buy spent brass from the US Dept of Defense - 'one time used' shell casings by our Military - from training on Military bases, etc. They buy the brass and then re-load for resale to Law Enforcement, Gun Shops, Gun Clubs, Wal-Mart, and etc.

They normally buy 30,000 lbs of spent brass at a time.

This week the DoD wrote a letter to the owner of Georgia Arms and said that from now on the DoD will be destroying the brass - shredding it. It is no longer available to the Ammo makers - unless they just buy it in a scrap shredded condition (which they have No use for). The shredded brass is NOW going to be sold by the DoD to China as scrap metal.... after the DoD pays for it to be shredded. The DoD is selling the brass to China for less money than Ammo manufacturers have been paying... plus the DoD has to pay to have the brass shredded and do all the accounting paperwork. That sure helps the US economy now, doesn't it? Sell cheaper to China - and do not sell shells at all to a proven US business. Any agenda working here???? Obama going after our ammunition!!!!!

The Georgia Arms owner even related a story that one of his competitors had already purchased a load of brass last week - and the DoD contacted him this week and said they were sending someone over to make sure it was destroyed. Shell Casings he had already bought! THE BRASS HAS NO VALUE TO THE AMMO MAKER IF IT IS DESTROYED/SHREDDED/MELTED. THE AMMO MANUFACTURER ONLY USES THE EMPTY BRASS SHELLS TO RELOAD DIFFERENT CALIBERS - MAINLY .223 BULLETS.

Georgia Arms owner says that he will have to lay off at least Half of his 60 workers, within 2 - 3 months if the DoD no longer sells their spent brass to him. He has 2 - 3 months inventory of shells to use. By summer - he's out. If he has to buy new manufactured brass shells, then the cost of ammunitioin to the buyer will double and triple.


Origins:   The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS), which is part of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), which in turn is part of the Department of Defense (DoD), is the service "responsible for the disposition of excess and surplus DoD property" and is tasked with "protecting national security by ensuring property is properly identified for reutilization and disposition and not released for public sale when to do so would jeopardize national security."

In March 2009, while reviewing a policy change issued by the DoD the previous year, the DLA halted or reclassified the sale of a broad category of items, a

 
 
category which included spent cartridge cases. This event caused consternation among manufacturers and purchasers of ammunition because it cut off some ammunition manufacturers from their largest supply of brass casings, as U.S. senators Max Baucas and Jon Tester noted in a letter on the subject to the DLA: "This reclassification has an impact on small businesses who sell reloaded ammunition utilizing these fired casings, and upon individual gun owners who purchase spent military brass at considerable cost savings for their personal use."

The issue was quickly resolved, however: a week later the DLA issued a press release announcing that upon completion of their review, they had determined that cartridge cases "could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale":

Small arms cartridge cases are identified as a sensitive Munitions List item and were held pending review of the policy relating to the category of items in which cartridge cases were included. Upon review, the Defense Logistics Agency has determined the cartridge cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale.

The DRMS sales contractor has been notified of this decision and has begun the process of reoffering the cases that have been held pending completion of the policy review.

The National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) also issued a statement on 18 March 2009 which noted (in part):

[T]he Department of Defense informed NRA-ILA that fired military small arms cartridge cases are once again eligible for sale, following a temporary suspension in such sales instituted last week. NRA-ILA began discussions with DoD shortly after the suspension took effect, and we were assured from the beginning that efforts were underway to resolve the issue favorably.

In announcing that the suspension has been lifted, DoD also made clear that no cartridge cases that, in the absence of the suspension, would have been sold for reloading purposes were destroyed while the suspension was in effect. Such cases were instead protected by DoD during the suspension, and are again eligible for sale. With ammunition currently in short supply, that was welcome news, to be sure.

DLA also put to rest various theories and rumors that were circulated on the internet concerning the reason for the suspension. As DLA explained to Senators Baucus and Tester, and to NRA-ILA, DoD officials responsible for the demilitarization of military property temporarily halted the release of the cartridge cases last week pending review of a policy change issued last year by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which, in the interest of national security, halted the sale of items within a broad category of government property including, but not limited to, surplus small arms cartridge cases.

To make cartridge cases eligible for sale once again, DoD demilitarization officials verified that the cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for use within the United States, and then executed the recategorization. Whereas during the brief suspension, fired cartridge cases would have been releaseable only if the purchaser crushed or smelted them, now the cases may be sold as before, intact and reloadable.

Last updated:   19 April 2009

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/casings.asp

Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2009 by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson.
This material may not be reproduced without permission.
snopes and the snopes.com logo are registered service marks of snopes.com.


 Sources:

    Cox, Chris W.   "Military Surplus Cartridge Case Issue Resolved."

    National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action.   18 March 2009.

    Gonsalves, Chris.   "Feds Lift Rule That Threatened Ammo Shortages."

    Newsmax.   19 March 2009.

    Johnson, Tonya.   "Small Arms Cartridge Case Policy Revised."

    Defense Logistics Agency   20 March 2009.



 
 
 
 

 

Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can be achieved!

Offline Bobby Bass

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 5203
  • Karma: +8/-28
OK so If I read this right, this is a no issue since it is not happening. Point of posting this was?  :scratch:
Bobby Bass


Bud and now Barney working the trail again in front of me.

It is not how many years you live, it is how you lived your years!

Offline Bufflehead

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 911
  • Karma: +0/-0
Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:19 pm             Reply with quoteEdit/Delete this postDelete this postView IP address of poster
http://www.gunsandammoenthusiastblog.com/great-news-dodbacks-off-order-to-destroy-all-used-brass/

Great News DOD backs off order to destroy all used brass


Fired brass shell casings

Responding to two Democratic senators representing outraged private gun owners, the Department of Defense announced last night it has scrapped a new policy that would deplete the supply of ammunition by requiring destruction of fired military cartridge brass.

The policy already had taken a bite out of the nation’s stressed ammunition supply, leaving arms dealers scrambling to find ammo for private gun owners.

Mark Cunningham, a legislative affairs representative with the Defense Logistics Agency, explained in an e-mail last night to the office of Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont., that the Department of Defense had placed small arms cartridge cases on its list of sensitive munitions items as part of an overall effort to ensure national security is not jeopardized in the sale of any Defense property.

The small arms cases were identified as a senstive item and were held pending review of policy, he said.

“Upon review, the Defense Logistics Agency has determined the cartridge cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale,” Cunningham wrote.

The Defense Department liaison was responding to a letter yesterday to the Defense Logistic Agency’s Vice Admiral Alan S. Thompson from Tester and fellow Montana Democrat Sen. Max Baucus. The senators argued “prohibiting the sale of fired military brass would reduce the supply of ammunition – preventing individual gun owners from fully exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. We urge you to address this situation promptly.”

Learn here why it’s your right — and duty — to be armed.

One of the companies that brought attention to the issue is Georgia Arms, which for the last 15 years has been purchasing fired brass casings from the Department of Defense and private government surplus liquidators. The military collects the discarded casings from fired rounds, then sells them through liquidators to companies like Georgia Arms that remanufacture the casings into ammunition for the enforcement and civilian gun owner communities.

But earlier this month, Georgia Arms received a canceled order, informed by its supplier that the government now requires fired brass casings be mutilated, in other words, destroyed to a scrap metal state.

The policy change, handed down from the Department of Defense through the Defense Logistics Agency, cut a supply leg out from underneath ammunition manufacturers.

The policy compelled Georgia Arms to cancel all sales of .223 and .308 ammunition, rounds used, respectively, in semi-automatic and deer hunting rifles, until further notice. Sharch Manufacturing, Inc. had announced the same cancellation of its .223 and .308 brass reloading components.

“They just reclassified brass to allow destruction of it, based on what?” Georgia Arms owner Larry Haynie asked WND. “We’ve been ‘going green’ for the last dozen years, and brass is one of the most recyclable materials out there. A cartridge case can be used over and over again. And now we’re going to destroy it based on what? We don’t want the civilian public to have it? It’s a government injustice.”

As WND reported, firearm sales have spiked since the election of a perceived anti-gun president, and Americans stockpiling bullets have produced a stressed ammunition market.

The Orlando Sentinel reports months of steady, heavy buying have left gun dealers in Florida facing shortages of ammunition.

“The survivalist in all of us comes out,” John Ritz, manager of a Florida shooting range, told the Sentinel. “It’s more about protecting what you have.”

“People are just stockpiling,” said a spokeswoman for Georgia Arms, which has seen bullet sales jump 100 percent since the election. “A gun is just like a car. If you can’t get gas, you can’t use it.”

WND contacted the Defense Logistics Agency, the Department of Defense’s largest combat support agency, several times seeking comment or explanation for the policy change but received none.

The National Rifle Association confirmed to WND that the DLA had been instructed to require the scrapping of the brass casings but declined further comment.

Other gun advocates, however, sounded off on the issue, eyeing the change in government policy with suspicion and filling the blogosphere with speculation that the effects of the policy change may be deliberate.

“It is an end-run around Congress. They don’t need to try to ban guns – they don’t need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit ‘assault’ weapon sales,” writes firearm instructor and author Gordon Hutchinson on his The Shootist blog. “Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.”

A writer named Owen at the Boots & Sabers blog suspected the policy change was an effort by an anti-gun administration to raise the cost of ammunition.

“This policy didn’t come out of the blue,” wrote Owen. “The Commander in Chief is clearly sending a message to gun owners that they should be paying more for ammunition. If he can’t do it through regulatory action, he’ll do it by forcing ammunition manufacturers to spend more on production.”

Hutchinson reports Georgia Arms was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, but without the ability to purchase expended military ammunition, the company might have been forced to lay off up to half its workforce.

As WND reported, firearm sales have spiked since the election of a perceived anti-gun president, and Americans stockpiling bullets have produced a stressed ammunition market.

The Orlando Sentinel reports months of steady, heavy buying have left gun dealers in Florida facing shortages of ammunition.

“The survivalist in all of us comes out,” John Ritz, manager of a Florida shooting range, told the Sentinel. “It’s more about protecting what you have.”

“People are just stockpiling,” said a spokeswoman for Georgia Arms, which has seen bullet sales jump 100 percent since the election. “A gun is just like a car. If you can’t get gas, you can’t use it.”

WND contacted the Defense Logistics Agency, the Department of Defense’s largest combat support agency, several times seeking comment or explanation for the policy change but received none.

The National Rifle Association confirmed to WND that the DLA had been instructed to require the scrapping of the brass casings but declined further comment.

Other gun advocates, however, sounded off on the issue, eyeing the change in government policy with suspicion and filling the blogosphere with speculation that the effects of the policy change may be deliberate.

“It is an end-run around Congress. They don’t need to try to ban guns – they don’t need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit ‘assault’ weapon sales,” writes firearm instructor and author Gordon Hutchinson on his The Shootist blog. “Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.”

A writer named Owen at the Boots & Sabers blog suspected the policy change was an effort by an anti-gun administration to raise the cost of ammunition.

“This policy didn’t come out of the blue,” wrote Owen. “The Commander in Chief is clearly sending a message to gun owners that they should be paying more for ammunition. If he can’t do it through regulatory action, he’ll do it by forcing ammunition manufacturers to spend more on production.”

Hutchinson reports Georgia Arms was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, but without the ability to purchase expended military ammunition, the company might have been forced to lay off

-------------------------------------------

IMO, the damage was done and it will take some time if and when we ever catch back up to a proper supple of brass & other loading components.

-----------------------------------------

ANSWERS TO AMMUNITION AVAILABILITY QUESTIONS

NSSF has received numerous calls regarding shortages of ammunition. Many of these callers have expressed concern that the supply of ammunition is not able to keep up with the current demand.

In order to provide the best information possible on the issue of ammunition availability, NSSF interviewed ammunition manufacturers across the United States. Here's what we have learned:

Is there truly a shortage of ammunition?

The shortage of ammunition is real and is caused by several factors including:

*

A significant spike in consumer demand
*

Law Enforcement demand for training and readiness
*

Department of Defense demand for training and readiness
*

Higher prices from commodities

What calibers are in the highest demand?

The high demand for ammunition extends across caliber lines. The increase can be seen in most handgun, rifle and rimfire ammunition and on certain shot shell products such as buckshot.

What are manufacturers doing to keep up with demand?

In order to help keep up with demand for ammunition, manufacturers are working at full capacity (24/7). It is believed that any ammunition shortage is likely a temporary issue; however, it will take time for supply to catch up with demand.

How long will it take for supply to catch up with demand?

While it is believed that supply will be increasing, the great unknown is what demand will be later in the year. Since there is no way for manufacturers to predict how long consumer demand will be sustained at its current, unprecedented level, it is impossible for manufacturers to forecast the timeline for when the current backlog will begin to improve.
There's plenty of room for all gods creatures...right next to my mashed potatoes

Offline Cody Gruchow

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 4060
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • 2016 Mno rockbass challenge champion
not to be rude but i agree with bobby this is a non issue cause it didnt happen, so why post it? and why make a even bigger post after the fact?

Offline Bufflehead

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 911
  • Karma: +0/-0
Quote
"The policy already had taken a bite out of the nation’s stressed ammunition supply, leaving arms dealers scrambling to find ammo for private gun owners."

Well something took place the way it looks to me and whats this

Quote
"Responding to two Democratic senators representing outraged private gun owners"

Democrats?

Impossible....just ask uncle Dave and Sandman




« Last Edit: August 08/31/09, 10:37:26 PM by Bufflehead »
There's plenty of room for all gods creatures...right next to my mashed potatoes

Offline kenhuntin

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 2037
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • FISH CHAMP#1 2010#10 2009#4 2008 colapsed 2011
The fact that this was on the table makes it worth looking at as far as I am concerned
A gun owner is a citizen
Those without are subjects

Offline thunderpout

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 2804
  • Karma: +0/-0
How true Ken... shows ya how close we could be to a situation, and one where its not that we have to worry about firearms being taken etc, all they need to do is make it tough to get ammo... and ya wonder why alot of gun owners are in such a pannick.... I wonder sometimes if all this is to see the publics reaction is when it is on the table, like they're seeing how far they can go & what they can get away with :bs:.... would sure like to be a fly on the wall at some of those commitee meetings...

Offline GRAMPS

  • Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
Sorry to burst your bubble boys but back on August 14,2009 (Yes just last month)a friend of mine
was at a scrap dealer here in Minneapolis and took pictures of approx 20+ heavy 4x4x4 cardboard
boxes on pallets each weighing about 3500# of destroyed brass casings.  I was able to see several that he took and they were not reloadable.  At least 8 of these boxes were .223 brass the rest were .308 and 50BMG.
He did some investigating and found out that they came from Camp Ripley.  He found out that if Camp Ripley sent the brass to the DOD they would only receive only about .05 on the $1 of the sale of the brass.  However if they destroy it and sell it for scrap the Guard gets 100% of the money.
Just remember "I'm here from the Goverment and I'm here to help you".  Bend over and grab your ankles.

Gramps

Offline Bufflehead

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 911
  • Karma: +0/-0
 So Gramps, what they did was not because of law but because of economic reasons. Fiscal responsibility...how stupid..what could they be thinking?

 and explain to me why the DOD would buy their own brass back at full market price from Camp Ripley?

 Sounds like Camp Ripley was the one who made the choice to scrap it for a higher return.

 All metal prices have been through the roof, be it brass, copper, Etc. You can thank Clinton and Bush both for this matter. It's called global trade agreements that were pushed for build up in cheap labor countries. It was a short term get rich scheme, as these countries boom soon lead to workers wanting higher pay, a better life and things us American's have.   
« Last Edit: September 09/08/09, 05:55:24 AM by Bufflehead »
There's plenty of room for all gods creatures...right next to my mashed potatoes

Offline The General

  • MNO Staff
  • Master Outdoorsman
  • *
  • Posts: 6782
  • Karma: +20/-27
  • Smackdown King
Quote
"The policy already had taken a bite out of the nation’s stressed ammunition supply, leaving arms dealers scrambling to find ammo for private gun owners."

Well something took place the way it looks to me and whats this

Quote
"Responding to two Democratic senators representing outraged private gun owners"

Democrats?

Impossible....just ask uncle Dave and Sandman






Now that is flipping hilarious.  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Eastwood v. Wayne Challenge Winner 2011

The Boogie Man may check his closet for John Wayne but John Wayne checks under his bed for Clint Eastwood

Offline finch

  • Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +0/-0
OK so I won't lie and say I read the whole bit of articles.  however, to you guys asking why he posted this, I'm slightly confused.  our government put approximately a week long ban on re-using spent ammo, yet you're not concerned because they lifted the ban?  do you think black people would be okay with it if Uncle Sam reinstated slavery for a week and then abolished it once again?  I'd sure hope not.  the point is that it was done,  the rule was changed, but the initial ban was in place for a short period of time.  stock up while you can... :USA:
"Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor... It's Americans that are tired, hungry, and poor.  so until you take care of that, close the book!" - Edward Norton, American History X

Offline cva54

  • Xtreme Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 169
  • Karma: +0/-0
I dont under stand this hole post. I shoot 30 cal and 7mm I am just getting in to reloading still in the reading part. From what I under stand why would you get used brass any way there is no way to keep track of the lot #s and what has been done to that cassing? Do you trust the goverment?   
Hunt hard, Shoot straight, Kill clean!

Offline GRIZ

  • Master Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 1793
  • Karma: +0/-0
why not get used brass if it's cheap? It's only been used once.

I havn't shot competition but maybe if your concerned with .02 of an inch it might make a difference. But I'd have my doubt's.

Heck I reload for my 270 an have a mixed batch of brass. Most of it I necked down from friends empty 30-06 casings an I can't tell the difference.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline cva54

  • Xtreme Outdoorsman
  • Posts: 169
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hunt hard, Shoot straight, Kill clean!