Are the nets out yet??

[22lex]

That guy is for sure lying to prove a point and it does just the opposite - In my eyes

You are right, and there's alot of that going around right now.

I like to read about facts and numbers, not wade through "noise" and crap.

Snow, while we are on the subject, what does the whole per capita spending per tribesperson in the U.S. have to do with netting on Mille Lacs? What is the larger picture you have posted about? Also, as you seem to be quite involved and read up on this issue, what other lakes around there does the netting occur?

I think I remember my uncle saying something about netting on the lake we have a cabin on, and it's about 12 miles N. of Malmo.

[snow]

22LEX~

Thats my point,very few people realize that all of us are paying tax dollars (ones that pay taxes) to fund everything the tribes are involved in nationwide,including the commerical harvest right now on mille laces,both from the federal funds and the state,in the mean time the lake is being butcherd.When you see county,state and federal agents around the pond,guess who is paying them? See, GLIFWC is solely funded by U.S. $$. The trucks you see, for one example, at the landings these days have "U.S. Government " plates on them. All the expenses are under the GLIFWC funding scenario. ALL of YOU help pay to net the fish here......

WE pay the Tribal DNR wages!

As far as other lakes,you should google the treaty area,it involves 12 counties,take a look at their hook-line regs while your at it,you should also note their hunting season and limits,also check this site out~

You don't want to see it. It'l make you sick...but here is an alternative link:

[22lex]

Thanks Snow.

I personally don't know the funding side of this whole netting operation and I am still figuring out what "the whole netting getting paid for by us" really means. Does it pay for the vehicles, boats, nets, time/labor it takes to net, time off of work, lodging for the out-of-staters, food, etc...? Or is it the Tribal DNR, our DNR, and other government vehicles related to GLIFWC what you are talking about.

I'm confused as this thread was about netting in Mille Lacs, and seems to be veering towards something else larger in scale.

[snow]

22,

Re-read my post,and think about it....and yes,my point was tyo expand on this entire issue and its not all about walleyes,maybe take a drive to mille laces,look at all the rigs at the access's,most are from outof state,look at all the newer vehicels and boats,have you thought about "casino" money?,why work when you get a nice check every year?As maxx pointed out,majority of the natives netting are from outof state,alot of them set camp up or stay with relatives.

[knowsnothing]

I appreciate hearing bluewavexx's comments. My family has had land north of Mille Lacs for a very long time and I never drove by the lake while netting was going on. Today I took the frontage roads up the west side looking at eagles. I was surprised with the number of DNR trucks along the road. Once I got to Garrison, I noticed the parking lot filled with trucks and netters. Every access I passed on my way to Malmo had more and more trucks. I have to admit, I was more curious than anything. I wanted to walk up and check it out but was advised we would be stopped and turned around by the DNR. The only thing that really bothered me was that it seemed like 90% of the parking lots were Wisconsin plates (dang cheeseheads). I can understand the frustrations on both sides but it was the first time I have heard it explained as bluewavexx had. I will just wait six weeks until I can light up a nice cigar and catch my dinner. Another one in the box.

[bonecollecter82]

Hey bluewavexx you have been copy and pasted to another site by someone on here. I just thought you would like to know!!

[Cody Gruchow]

what site im curious?

[bluewavexx]

22LEX~

Thats my point,very few people realize that all of us are paying tax dollars (ones that pay taxes) to fund everything the tribes are involved in nationwide,including the commerical harvest right now on mille laces,both from the federal funds and the state,in the mean time the lake is being butcherd.When you see county,state and federal agents around the pond,guess who is paying them? See, GLIFWC is solely funded by U.S. $$. The trucks you see, for one example, at the landings these days have "U.S. Government " plates on them. All the expenses are under the GLIFWC funding scenario. ALL of YOU help pay to net the fish here......

WE pay the Tribal DNR wages!

As far as other lakes,you should google the treaty area,it involves 12 counties,take a look at their hook-line regs while your at it,you should also note their hunting season and limits,also check this site out~

You don't want to see it. It'l make you sick...but here is an alternative link:

Snow why dont you cite some of your sources instead of using half truths yes GLIFWIC does get some grant money (not tax payer) also it is mostly tribally funded and ask a tribal warden he is paid by the tribe with tribal monies along with their benefits, but believe the amount you pay in taxes wouldnt even pay for the installation of a stop sign. Your taxes pay for the three or for officers who monitor a lake that has tens and thousands of visitors some who poach litter and leave. I am done wasting time arguing but I encourage any of you who want to come see whats its about first hand to come check it out next year. Also about that 200 hours fishing and no walleye story I suggest you give up fishing because it aint the lake believe me I catch and release more angling than I get netting. Mille lacs is a strong lake with a great population Like they say on little whitefish if you cant catch fish here ...give it up. 200 hours! are you sure your line had a hook on it! thats a desperate lie my dog could out fish you!

[bluewavexx]

22LEX~

Thats my point,very few people realize that all of us are paying tax dollars (ones that pay taxes) to fund everything the tribes are involved in nationwide,including the commerical harvest right now on mille laces,both from the federal funds and the state,in the mean time the lake is being butcherd.When you see county,state and federal agents around the pond,guess who is paying them? See, GLIFWC is solely funded by U.S. $$. The trucks you see, for one example, at the landings these days have "U.S. Government " plates on them. All the expenses are under the GLIFWC funding scenario. ALL of YOU help pay to net the fish here......

WE pay the Tribal DNR wages!

As far as other lakes,you should google the treaty area,it involves 12 counties,take a look at their hook-line regs while your at it,you should also note their hunting season and limits,also check this site out~

You don't want to see it. It'l make you sick...but here is an alternative link:

Those are state wardens the GLIFWC trucks have tribal plates on them.

[crappie castle]

I just have a dumb question why doesnt the dnr have a fishery up here and milk the walleyes that come out of the nets, it seems to be a waste that could really help...and can you tell me why the wisc tribes can sell there catch and you can only catch what your families can use. Specially the tribal members who live in grantsburg wisc.

[bonecollecter82]

They cant milk them because the majority of them probaly are not ripe yet. I know the hatchery here brings them in and they usually sit there for a day or two till there ready to be milked. Some dont ever get milked in the hatchery because they dont ripen fast enough

[MNBucKKiller]

http://www.startribune.com/local/90802399.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUgOahccyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs&elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU

[bluewavexx]

like i said in the other post there is always a few bad eggs and these one are not representative of the mille lacs Indians.

[dakids]

Bluewavexx is there anything that you, as a minnesota indian, can do to stop the wisconsin indians from netting in minnesota?

[Woody]

Bluewavexx is there anything that you, as a minnesota indian, can do to stop the wisconsin indians from netting in minnesota?

I was wondering the same thing. What will it take to stop them from coming over? 

[MTCOMMER]

Bluewavexx is there anything that you, as a minnesota indian, can do to stop the wisconsin indians from netting in minnesota?

I was wondering the same thing. What will it take to stop them from coming over? 

That really should be some sort of rule.  Only so much of the quota can be taken from out of state netters.... So once a certain amount has been caught, there is no more for Wisco netters.  That would, I think, would 1 - ease the pain from Minnesotans who seen people from Wisco netting in Mille Lacs and 2- give more of an opportunity for the Mille Lacs tribe to get their fish.

Now, Does it work where, you net til your quota is met?  The XXX,000 pounds or is it only for a certain time frame?  Personally, I would be more OK with allowing native MN's to fish Mille Lacs versus others from out of state who have no business around our parts....
I try not to take sides, but I understand WHY we allow the netting to take place in the first place.  I dont like it just as mch as the next guy!

[sandmannd]

like i said in the other post there is always a few bad eggs and these one are not representative of the mille lacs Indians.

Not trying to be an  but I call  on this. First and foremost, it most certainly does represent the Mille Lacs Indians. When you see these stories, does it say the scum that waste are only from WI? You would have us believe that not one person netting from the Mille Lacs Band has ever doen any wrong?  I have said it before, this is a mess that needs to be cleaned up by those involved. That means that IF it is all WI tribes causing the havack there, YOU and YOUR tribe need to take care of it. Our DNR can't touch them. IF the Mille Lacs Band would get it together and regulate this better so year after year we don't hear the wasted fish stories you would actually start gaining some respect. Until then, it looks to many like pigs are out looting and raping our waters. And you can't argue with the pictures we've seen of wasted fish. There is absolutely NO excuse for that kind of was and it makes me   

[bluewavexx]

facts are facts and thye reality is, that this was not the mille lacs band the tribe hit its quota of 26k a week ago these incidents happened well after that.

[sandmannd]

BEMIDJI, Minn. -- Two northern Minnesota Ojibwe bands say they will fish illegally a day before the May 15 walleye opener to assert hunting and fishing rights they say are guaranteed by 19th-century treaties.

While similar actions by other Ojibwe bands have sometimes led to tensions and even violence, the Leech Lake and White Earth bands say they're announcing their plans ahead of time to try to avoid that.

The push comes more than a decade after the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe won a similar claim in a landmark U.S. Supreme Court case. The Leech Lake and White Earth bands are making their claim based on a treaty they signed with the federal government in 1855.

Racial tensions were high during the Mille Lacs court case in the 1990s. There were incidents of violence in the 1980s when other Ojibwe asserted their right to spear walleye in northern Wisconsin.

"We don't want to end up like it was in Wisconsin. We don't want to do it at night. We don't want to be sneaking around," Leech Lake tribal attorney Frank Bibeau told Minnesota Public Radio News. "We don't want the police out there with riot gear. We don't want drunk people with beer cans, and having a whole bunch of people getting all mad about things. And we don't want to have to waste a bunch of time and money fighting about that. That's nonproductive for anybody."

The Leech Lake and White Earth bands, which have about 30,000 members, plan to have members fish illegally on the shore of Lake Bemidji on May 14. Bibeau said several hundred Ojibwe anglers could be there. He said he expects some will be ticketed, but that the demonstration will be peaceful.

The two bands could have asserted their claims in the 1990s when the Mille Lacs band did, Bibeau acknowledged, but he said they were distracted at the time by infighting and tribal government corruption.

Tribal attorneys plan to send a letter to Gov. Tim Pawlenty laying out their claim soon.

"The letter that's going to be going out here is -- I want to say this politely. We're not asking for their permission," Dale Green, who works for the Leech Lake Band's legal department, told MPR. "We're going to re-exert our rights, but ... being good neighbors, we want the governor to talk with us and be aware of what we're doing, why we're doing it, and if he can assist us."

Peter Erlinder, a professor at William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, has laid out the case for the northern Ojibwe bands in a paper that will be sent to the governor and other state officials. He said it may be more cost effective for the state to negotiate rather than fight in court.

"We are in a position, I think, to be able to say without much argument that we are correct," Erlinder said. "So the question then is, what is it that the state is going to be obligated to do in order to live up to the obligations that were established between the United States government and the Ojibwe Nation in those treaties?"

Some other small Ojibwe bands in northern Minnesota already enjoy treaty-based rights to hunt and fish off reservation. When federal courts recognized the rights of bands in northern Wisconsin in the 1980s, the case also included tribes in northeastern Minnesota.

The Fond du Lac Band quietly exercise its hunting and fishing rights, while the Bois Forte and Grand Portage bands lease their rights to the state in exchange for annual payments of several million dollars.

Green said the treaties from the 1800s may have sold off land to the federal government, but he said the Ojibwe people never gave up their rights to hunt and fish on that land.

"When you view the treaties together, starting with the 1825 treaty and moving to the more current ones, like the 1855, the rights are there for exercising our rights to ... hunt, fish and gather using modern means," Green said.

[snow]

Isn't this just "ducky" wonder why the leech lake tribe is traveling all the way to lake bemidji? Whats wrong with their back yard? I only hope they nail these these guys,enough is enough~ If they don't,the wisconny tribe will sieze the opprotunity next year and nett leech,cass and whatever lakes they choose.

[snow]

Hey sand~

Here ya go and for all you other guys that care about the future of mille laces lake and who know's what other lakes in the future if this does'nt stop~

This reponse is from another site,and finally we have someone to not only listen but respond.

This response letter regarding Native American issues in Minnesota should give us all some hope that we do elect the right people sometimes. Hopefully his words can turn into real action but a politician like this deserves our support and attention.

Dear Mike,

I would first like to thank you for taking time out of your day to voice your concerns. I cannot over-emphasize how important it is for Minnesotan’s to take an active role in politics, and I always enjoy hearing from constituents.

I think the issues you raise in your e-mail are important ones. I have always been very vocal on the tribal nation issue. Under all the treaties that I have read, the tribes were considered sovereign but dependent. Under this dependency clause, the tribes are able to get taxpayers dollars and vote in elections, without having to conform to some of the same laws and standards that generally go along with receiving government funding. I think it is time to take a clear stand- if they want sovereignty, let us grant it to them. In return they receive no taxpayer money, and cannot vote in our elections. I am in favor of opening discussions along these lines.

In regards to repartitions, I believe the past is the past. We need to start fresh; we cannot take responsibility for the actions of those who lived two hundred years ago. The treaties are fairly broad in scope, and all exist at the leisure of the president. Hence, though we could ratify them over and over, they do not technically exist in perpetuity. Courts make decisions on these treaties are based on social justice issues, which is not right. The decisions should be based on the facts of the treaty and treaty laws. Additionally, whether in fact or perception, when someone has special rights and privileges, based on bloodlines, there will always be conflict. We need to end this long trend toward injustice.

It is time to re-negotiate treaties. Whether it is lands, hunting rights, or gaming, it is obvious reparations are being discussed, and this is unacceptable. The sins of the fathers, at some point, need to be let go. We cannot continually pay for mistakes made centuries ago, and I believe it is time for a discussion of true tribal sovereignty.

Once again, thank you for contacting me. Please keep in touch with any future questions or concerns.

Warmest Regards,
Mike Jungbauer
Minnesota State Senator
Senate District 48
121 State Office Building
100 Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
St. Paul, MN 55155
Office: (651) 296-3733 Mobile: 612-490-3142 Fax: (651) 296-4239

[snow]

BTW~ If you care about the future of mille laces and other lakes of our state,send Mike a "thankyou" for your support,make it short as he has alot of other issues on his plate,he'll get the picture.

sen.michael.jungbauer@senate.mn 

[sandmannd]

Great post, thank you.

[Tyler Rother]

Great post snow. Email sent. I support him.

[snow]

Hey guys,listen to this peace of work,don't think for one minute they don't have an agenda~And he has the odasity to pull the race card.

 

[sandmannd]

I didn't think he pulled a race card, he's just plane racist!!! The invasive species takes the cake. Then he says they are the best at keeping up the waters and have "scientific" evidence of that.

So do I, look at the pics of the wasted fish!!!!!

[MNBucKKiller]

I didn't think he pulled a race card, he's just plane racist!!! The invasive species takes the cake. Then he says they are the best at keeping up the waters and have "scientific" evidence of that.

So do I, look at the pics of the wasted fish!!!!!

Totally agree.  That whole racism quote ticked me off a bit.  seems when ever you dislike someone or disagree with someone its racism... getting kinda old.

[Big Buck Buster]

The only thing that I am going to say about the treaty that was signed is:  It is OK that they signed the treaty for the rights of there ancestors, but they should have to use the same means of transportation and netting materials as when the treaty was signed.  This means no new boats, or vehicles.  Stick to what they used back then: hand made nets/ canoes.

[sandmannd]

  +1

[Benny]

Sunday Star&tribune had an artical on the treaty rights meetings the White Earth band are having.
They claim to want a diplomatic solution and to hold talks with the legislature.
Does this mean we get to review the treaty and make changes, heck no.

They are just afraid there will be enough people mad that will finially stand up and get the treaty thrown out.

If there are enough people who write the legislature and Presedent then just maybe the treaty will be reviewed and changed to reflect modern day values.

Benny