New BWCA Reservation Process.

[Lee Borgersen]

  Superior National Forest Managers Announce Changes in National Recreation Reservation System and BWCAW Permit Reservation Process.

9/29/18

Submitted by admin on Sat, 09/29/2018 - 11:20
Superior National Forest Managers Announce Changes in National Recreation Reservation System
and BWCAW Permit Reservation Process

Duluth, MN (September 28, 2018) – Beginning in 2019, visitors will see some changes in the National Recreation Reservation System which includes the permitting process for the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW). These changes address privacy, security, financial, and program requirements of the new, nation-wide recreation.gov website launching on October 1, 2018.

The new platform has stronger security controls, better protection of Personally Identifiable Information (PII), and increased fraud protection. Recreation.gov will no longer store credit card information.

Beginning in 2019, the $10.00 reservation fee is changing to $6.00 for every quota permit. That means whether you reserve a permit ahead of time or purchase a ‘walk-in’ permit, the fee will be $6.00. This includes Day Use Motor permits.

Group leaders (permit holders) are required to have a valid email address to reserve a permit.

Each alternate permit holder is required to have a valid email address to be listed as an intended alternate at time of reservation.

Alternates must respond to the recreation.gov email sent at the time of reservation and accept being an alternate within 72 hours of reservation, or the permit will not have alternates.

If an alternate does not have a recreation.gov account, they will be required to create one at verification when they respond and accept being an alternate. Alternates can log on to www.recreation.gov and create their account any time prior to a reservation.

All participant names must be entered for the permit to print at issuance. Participant names may be added to a reservation any time prior to the permit pick-up.

For reservations made by a Cooperator, permit holders will receive a copy of the confirmation email.

While the new recreation.gov website may be accessed via an older operating system, you will need the latest version of an officially supported browser (Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Microsoft Edge or Internet Explorer 11) to use the new recreation.gov.

Next week, while the new nation-wide website (recreation.gov) is undergoing the transition to the new site, the system will be available for exploring. However, you will not be able to create a new account or access an existing account until October 5 at 10:00 a.m. EST, when account access is expected to be available.

For the 2019 BWCAW quota permit season, all permits for all entry points will be available on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 at 9:00 a.m. CST. Permits may be reserved online at www.recreation.gov or by calling the reservation line at (877) 444-6777.

Reminder: It is no longer necessary for people to participate in a separate lottery process to obtain a quota permit for any BWCAW entry point. Beginning in 2019, all BWCAW quota permits will be available January 30 through one process on a first-come-first served basis.

[Lee Borgersen]

 BWCA online reservation system is doomed to fail.
                                                     

  ....
The U.S. Forest Service may end up being responsible for damaging several Ely area businesses and upsetting a large section of BWCA motorboat permit users.
A letter sent out last week from the Duluth office reaffirms the decision to do away with the permit lottery for motor entry points.
This includes:

Day Use Motor Entry Points:
• D Fall Lake, Newton, Pipestone & Beyond
• F Moose Lake to Newfound & Sucker Lakes
• G Moose Lake to Prairie Portage to Basswood
Overnight Paddle & Overnight Motor Entry Points:
• 24 Fall Lake
• 25 Moose Lake

The Forest Service believes an online permit reservation system will work better. But for individual users and businesses who rely on the scarce motor permits, this is a recipe for disaster.

Instead of giving everyone a chance at a permit through a lottery system, this is going to be a race by computer or phone call. If you’re not sitting at your computer or phone at 9 a.m. on January 30, 2019 and ready to speed type or dial, you are going to be out of luck. The Forest Service either doesn’t care or is clueless on the hardship it is creating.

Businesses and residents up in northern Minnesota have less than reliable internet and phone service. Could it be that we have no internet on January 30, 2019 at 9 a.m.? This may not be a problem in Duluth or the Twin Cities, but in the Ely area, it’s nearly a regular occurrence. 

  ......
We believe the Forest Service knows exactly what it is doing by discarding the lottery system. It is finding ways to keep people out of the BWCA. This could very well have severe detrimental effects on several Ely businesses. And the possibility for an anti-motor group to snap up a large number of permits could happen as well.

Apparently no one in the Forest Service has tried to buy tickets online for a popular concert. If you want to see Taylor Swift, Elton John or Bon Jovi, you better have fingers a-blazing on the keyboard when tickets go on sale.

Or you’ll be just like BWCA motor boat users. Sitting at home with nowhere to go.

[Rebel SS]

Hacker supplied permits during system crash.   📹 📞

[Lee Borgersen]

Hacker supplied permits during system crash.   📹 📞

Kin you expand on dat bro

[Rebel SS]

System crash during initial sign up. Hacker entry into system during that time with first online first-in-queue- purchase.

[Lee Borgersen]

System crash during initial sign up. Hacker entry into system during that time with first online first-in-queue- purchase.

got-cha

 Wit da past existing system the resorts and outfitters businesses had da ability to apply fur permits before da general population. Dis helped local businesses to stay in business. One of da major draws to da area   is da BWCA. It's a major reason dat helps the Ely area businesses & residents to survive. Without vacationers/tourists Ely would struggle. Young people today are leaving Ely in droves because of limited employment opportunities.

So, without available BWCA permits many folks would stop going to Ely. Sad to say but true and dat would include my family!

[snow1]

Too bad going to the bwca has come to this urban sprawl has made it all the way to NE Minn.

[Rebel SS]

I still believe the MN DNR has it's head way up it's bunghole.

[Lee Borgersen]

To da best of my understanding it seems dat way more of da environmental group types are now working for da U.S. Forrest Service. By infiltrating da ranks of da USFS along comes new restrictions and changes in philosophy. This does not bode well for the average avid sportsmen.
As an active member of the CWCS (conservationists with common sense) I have recieved communications as to the "tree huggers" anti attitude agendas/goals.
 
At one point in da past The "Friends of the Boundary Waters" brought aboard a new president. He reached out to the CWCS group to meet with their leadership. The idea was to explore the differences between the CWCS and the Friends group. The meeting  went well.

When the new leader of The Friends went back to his group and reported the results and issues discussed he felt he had a better understanding of the CWCS peoples concerns and was pleased with the meeting.
 
Upon his reporting to his enviro group that we need to work together with opposing groups.
"The Friends" Of The Boundary Waters" FIRED HIM!

Proud Member of the CWCS.
http://www.cwcs.org

"To educate the public in order to preserve reasonable public access to and sensible recreational multiple-use of public lands and waters (including motorized uses) in Northeastern Minnesota, especially the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW), with care for the environment."

[LPS]

Wow Lee.  What a bad situation this is turning out to be.

[Lee Borgersen]

   Thinking about becoming a BWCA guide?

   Forget about it! 


"Editorial reprinted from the April 14, 2018 Ely Echo"


The U.S. Forest Service is up to its old tricks again, this time
not allowing new fishing guides or any other types of recreational
special uses.

  ....
The agency is hiding behind yet another lawsuit that it now
needs to study and while that study is going on, everything and
everybody gets put on hold.
 
This appears to be directly related to the lawsuit against
towboats in the BWCA and the agreement/settlement that
requires a study be done on Recreation Commercial Services.

Instead of focusing on the towboat issue, the agency has
expanded the impact to include the entire Superior National
Forest and any type of recreational special use permitting.
This is simply ridiculous. The Forest Service should be able
to study the towboat issue and continue to conduct business
as usual. For businesses that already have a recreational use
permit, including fishing guides, they can continue.

But if a person decided they wanted to start a guide
business this spring, their application would not be considered
by the Forest Service. Another example of government putting
unnecessary, unreasonable and draconian limits on instead of
adapting and being user friendly.

A letter on this decision was sent out to current recreational
special use permit holders last month.
Forest Supervisor Connie Cummins said in the letter
the USFS is currently conducting a Recreational Commercial
Services Needs Assessment.

“No new permits will be issued, and no new levels of
services will be processed during this time. Exceptions to this
hold will be for permits that were in the process of being issued
at the start of the Needs Assessment…

“If the Forest authorizes new business or the expansion of
services by existing businesses during the analysis period, it will
be necessary to start over as there would be new information to
include,” the letter states.

There is no timeline for this process other than the looming
possibility of the agency having to implement a National
Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) analysis to evaluate potential
changes. This could literally take years.

Some local guides believe this is the beginning of the end
of commercial uses in the BWCA (and the Superior National
Forest for that matter). The Forest Service doesn’t want to have to
deal with towboats or ciscoes or guides or truck portages or any
other type of commercial endeavor. This is their way to shut the
door and keep it shut.

Existing businesses may believe this is just the Forest
Service stumbling through legal hoops as the result of yet another
lawsuit filed by groups who really don’t want people to use the
Boundary Waters.

If you don’t believe this is the case, remember this is the
same agency that got all excited about a basketball hoop on
Prairie Portage.

  ....
We would like to see the agency reverse its position on
this issue and continue to work with people instead of slamming
doors. Start by asking how the agency can help.

For instance, there are numerous outfitters who issue
BWCA permits on behalf of the agency which could not possibly
do it without them. Instead of hassling, how about reaching out
and asking what could be done to help private businesses.

We only have to look at the decision to dump the lottery for
motorized permits as an example of a federal agency that is far
from user friendly. 

[glenn57]

  well, where's your buddy trump to fix this??????

[Lee Borgersen]

well, where's your buddy trump to fix this??????

  Who said dat?  Foooor-Geeet.....about it...It was only Glenn  
               

[LPS]

I used to be in a fishing tourney at West Bend on the Mighty Mo near Chamberlin.  We used to do that call in thing 90 days ahead of time.  Well you had to call that day to get the good spots cuz there were lots of us.  This was the first weekend of May each year.  My partner and I wanted to get in early so we called the first day on their 800 number and we got a Porn Talk thing.  LOL  Couldn't believe it.  Had to keep calling for a few days and even called the Fish and Game people and they didn't even know about it.  Finally the Porn thing was taken down and we got our reservation. 

[mike89]

only you could that happen too!!!   

[Rebel SS]

GOOD LORD! Now it's on THIS thread!    SEKS again!!!!   

[glenn57]

GOOD LORD! Now it's on THIS thread!    SEKS again!!!!   

Its LPS's fault!!!!!!

[mike89]

 

[LPS]

 

[Lee Borgersen]

                                         


  Someone keeps tryin ta pull dis topic off da track!

Click pic fur da proof!

             

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Lee Borgersen]

Public meeting on Forest Service changes to BWCA permits set for Nov. 13 in Ely


The U.S. Forest Service will now hold a public meeting following concerns raised over changes to the BWCA permit system, specifically the elimination of the lottery system for motor permits.

The meeting will be held on Tuesday, Nov. 13 at 2 p.m. at the Kawishiwi District Ranger Office conference room.
Both Sen. Amy Klobuchar and Rep. Rick Nolan have questioned the changes after Ely area businesses and residents have raised concerns.

Beginning Oct. 1, recreation reservation services on the Superior National Forest were upgraded within the nation-wide recreation.gov website.
These include stronger security controls, better protection of Personally Identifiable Information, and increased fraud protection.

  ....
The new system also enables real-time notification of availability and reservation of campsites in Superior National Forest developed campgrounds as well as Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) quota permits.

[Lee Borgersen]

New Update !
 
             
11/18/18

                             

Forest Service fields complaints in advance of Jan. 30 start date
by Tom Coombe -

  .....
A meeting on Tuesday did seemingly little to soothe the angst over upcoming changes to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness permit reservation system.

U.S. Forest Service officials convened the session and fielded an assortment of complaints from many in an audience of about 40 people at the agency’s Ely headquarters.

Opponents said the move to a nationwide, first-come, first-serve system will make it harder for local canoe outfitters to secure permits for their customers and for local residents to obtain day-use motor permits.

They also lamented data that showed as many as 40 percent of BWCAW permits go unused and lobbied, unsuccessfully, for those permits to be placed back into the system.

Forest Service said some of the concerns will be relayed to the contractor overseeing the permit system but gave no indication that the agency would reverse course on a system that “goes live” Jan. 30.

Gus Smith, the District Ranger based out of Ely, said the new system will also provide some benefits and put all users on an even playing field when seeking wilderness permits.
Smith and other Forest Service representatives also disputed charges, leveled by some in the audience, that permits are being taken by people or groups with no intention of using them.

“It’s not a group like the Friends of the Boundary Waters,” said Smith. “The no-shows are among us.”
Becky Manlove, who works out of the Ely office, said the Forest Service contacts those who don’t use their permits and have found no evidence of abuse.

“We see the names,” said Manlove. “We call them and ask them.”
In the midst of the no-show data, several speakers said it remains difficult to obtain permits and said the new system will be no improvement.

“We go up there and there aren’t any people,” said Ely area resident Nancy Mcready. “It seems like this system will make it harder for people who want to go up.”

Mcready suggested sanctions against those who fail to use their permits and pressed for the Forest Service to put unused permits back up for grabs, but agency officials contend they’re prohibited by law from doing so.

Opponents also predicted more problems when permit-seekers take to the internet to snatch up permits in late-January.
“By day two there won’t be any motorized day-use available,” charged Ross Petersen, a former Ely mayor.

Petersen and others also pointed to at-times spotty internet service in Ely as well as the lack of high-speed broadband internet around the area.
“It’s going to be Elyites that take it on the chin,” said Petersen.

Last year, the Forest Service announced the end to the permit lottery system and a move that puts BWCAW permitting in with permits for other national parks.
Permit-seekers must go online to www.recreation.gov, and follow the process outlined on that site.
Applicants must have an e-mail address, although those without one may obtain a permit through an outfitter or call by phone at 877-444-6777, once permits are made available Jan. 30.

The permit reservation center is based in Kentucky, and Forest Service officials say staff are trained on public land issues, and that by the time BWCAW permits are issued, the staff and system will have already gone through other “high-demand” permitting requests - including those for Yosemite National Park.

Smith said the system has benefits over the lottery process.
“Unlike the lottery there’s no reason to get more than you need,” said Smith.

Some outfitters, however, countered that the Jan. 30 start date is too early, and that some of their customers won’t have vacation schedules or be able to make plans at that point, leaving open the possibility that permits will be gone.

Alison LaTourell lamented a lack of involvement by local outfitters, adding “we’re the people who know the system best. The people in Duluth, how do they know?”
Forest Service representatives made note of the concerns, and said the system could be tweaked as it moves forward, similar to when changes were implemented earlier in the decade.

That did little to sway the skeptics, including Petersen who responded “it doesn’t help those of us that want to take our boats into Basswood next year.”