Do muskies kill walleye lakes?

[Lee Borgersen]

 
  Do muskies kill walleye lakes?    
 
  .....
That question comes up all the dang time. Some folks still think stocking a few muskies will ruin a walleye fishery — despite DNR research pointing to the contrary….
Some peeps even compare adding muskies to netting…but you ever notice that many of the best walleye lakes in MN have muskies in ’em? Like Lake of the Woods, Mille Lacs, Leech, Winnie, Vermilion, Rainy, Miltona, Bemidji, Cass, the list goes on….
The AnglingBuzz crew asked some of the top walleye- and ice-fishing pros across the ice belt what they thunk about it — for sure worth a watch/listen:
   
Nice Video.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMel1oux2do&feature=youtu.be

[delcecchi]

Nah, meat fishermen and game law violators kill walleye lakes. 

[kenhuntin]

Meat fisherman do not harm lakes the limit is set to remove excess population .The catch and release fish wounders that sit out all day killing fish are the ones that harm the resource. But to get on  subject of course muskies and the other water wolves northerns harm walleye populations. The walleyes crashed in mille lacs because of a lot of reasons but the biggest one is outlawing spearing which allowed the Northern population to go unchecked. The walleyes have enough pressure from above the water.

[Lee Borgersen]

"Quote"

"The catch and release fish wounders that sit out all day killing fish are the ones that harm the resource."

You've brought up some very valid points my friend However, catch and release fisherman shouldn't all be put in-ta da  ""fish wounders" category"  As Fur me, I take pride in my catch and release pholosiphy. That includes: fast release,less handling, & a tiny#8  hook.

Nice ta see some discussion on dis topic!

[delcecchi]

Meat fisherman do not harm lakes the limit is set to remove excess population .The catch and release fish wounders that sit out all day killing fish are the ones that harm the resource. But to get on  subject of course muskies and the other water wolves northerns harm walleye populations. The walleyes crashed in mille lacs because of a lot of reasons but the biggest one is outlawing spearing which allowed the Northern population to go unchecked. The walleyes have enough pressure from above the water.

The scientists differ with you.  Mille Lacs crashed due to overfishing and side effects of the slots used to control harvest.  They led to a unbalanced population and when the perch hatch failed, cannibalism set in.   That's why the little walleye weren't making it to even catchable size.   

Meat fishermen typically ignore the fact that the limit includes all the fish in their freezer as well.   

[glenn57]

yea well lets not forget the springtime nets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOONE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER is going to cnvince me that doesnt make a difference!!!!!!

[Rebel SS]

"Well Glenn, according to all the data gathered..............."   

[attachment deleted by admin]

[glenn57]

 

[Dotch]

Ah the Wayback Machine...ya gotta love it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkqn7O1lHFI

[Jerkbiat]

yea well lets not forget the springtime nets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOONE EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER is going to cnvince me that doesnt make a difference!!!!!!

Exactly what Glenn said. Also it wasn't until the netting started that the slots started. Otherwise it was 1 fish over 20" could be kept. The mismanagement started with the netting.

[delcecchi]

If the limit was 1 over 20, things were in trouble before the nets.  Look at the harvest level in those days and before.   The nets didn't make the DNR screw up with the slots. 

[Jerkbiat]

Yes it did. The DNR had to use the slots to control the poundage of the non indians. That is when the slots were tightened up and no more of the bigger fish were kept anymore.

[delcecchi]

Yes it did. The DNR had to use the slots to control the poundage of the non indians. That is when the slots were tightened up and no more of the bigger fish were kept anymore.

The result of the court case was that the DNR had to get serious and monitor and control the harvest for the first time.   Prior to that it was much more loosey goosey.   

And they thought that a harvest slot was acceptable to anglers and was an effective way to control harvest.   But they failed to anticipate the side effects of concentrated harvest of a single size of fish over several years, effectively creating a bimodal (brassier shaped we used to call it in the old days) size distribution.

And when things went south, they blamed bass, they blamed northerns, they blamed zeebs and climate change and anything they could think of.      But it was really the DNR and their management of the harvest that did it.     

[glenn57]

del..................you fool!!! to not consider netting as one of the reasons the walleye issue is at where its at would be like walking around with blinders on. do i agree the DNR might be responsible a bit, maybe.

let me spell it out for ya a little............simple math maybe even you might understand.

so you got this puddle of water with 200,000  walleyes in it. in the prime of there spawning ritual, you put a net in there and take 75,000 out..................and your gonna tell me that doesnt matter. yea right.

now if they would net out of the spawn cycle...........i could maybe see it.

[mike89]

 

[LPS]

It's harder to catch them when they aren't spawning Glenn.  You know the "fish in a barrel" theory????

[Rebel SS]

Well, I've looked for years, and I was never able to find that fish in a barrel, except for herring around the holidays.   

[LPS]

Man I love pickled herring.   

[delcecchi]

del..................you fool!!! to not consider netting as one of the reasons the walleye issue is at where its at would be like walking around with blinders on. do i agree the DNR might be responsible a bit, maybe.

let me spell it out for ya a little............simple math maybe even you might understand.

so you got this puddle of water with 200,000  walleyes in it. in the prime of there spawning ritual, you put a net in there and take 75,000 out..................and your gonna tell me that doesnt matter. yea right.

now if they would net out of the spawn cycle...........i could maybe see it.

Well I've tried to explain it before.    But I guess I will try again.   Mama Walleye starts making eggs in summer so she can spawn in the spring.   If Glenn puts her in the cooler in september she won't spawn in the spring.   If native man nets her in april, she won't spawn either.   Same deal.   September... April.  no spawn.   Time of year just doesn't matter.   What matters is how many spawners of what size actually spawn.   If they don't spawn because they were killed by an angler or by a netter it doesn't make any difference.   

The thing I see is that prior to the netting ruling, the DNR really had little idea what was going on in the lake and what the harvest was and all that.   There were good years and there were bad years.   In the mean time anglers got better boats and gps and lake maps and 4 lane highways from the cities and the harvest went up and up. 

Finally the DNR took some steps to reduce the harvest but in an imprecise manner.   

Then the natives came along and wanted to net and rather than buy out the mille lacs band some agitators thought they could win in court.   Thanks, bud grant of wisconsin.   The natives won.   They were entitled to half the sustainable harvest and the DNR was forced to figure out what that was.     Some years the natives took less than they were entitled to and some years the anglers took more than their share should have been.     

The DNR chose to implement a restrictive slot which meant that the angling harvest mostly came from a very restricted group of fish, almost wiping out that size fish every year.  Fish that made it past that size or were already too big had nothing to worry about except poachers and hooking mortality.   So there got to be a lot of big fish and some little fish and no medium sized fish.   When the big fish ran out of perch and ciscoes or maybe even before, they ate the little fish.   Seems nobody taught them that eating their children was bad.   

The DNR could maybe have changed and fixed stuff early on but the resort owners and business folks didn't want to do anything that would stop the flow of money, so nothing changed until it was screwed up so badly it couldn't be ignored any more. 

And nobody lived happily ever after.

[Jerkbiat]

The DNR was watching the harvest amounts for many years before the netting ever started. My parents were business owners in Garrison and my Dad would get the DNR reports every year showing what they estimated harvest was. I remember seeing them as far back as the late 80's. The was always way more than what they thought the safe harvest should be. And my point about the slot was that had the netting not started the lake would have stayed with the 1 over 20" allowing the harvest to be spread out over more year classes. So yes the netting had a effect. And I agree with Glenn, the fish should be allowed to spawn before they are netted. I think it is different when they are all concentrated spawnig verses being caught during other times of the year.

[LPS]

To me Del the issue is that the fish are going to spawn in a few minutes or days not months.  SO they have this payload of eggs waiting to drop but we don't let them cuz they are netted and speared.  The fish have gone through the whole process that is so important to survival and multiplying and they get knocked on the head a day or two too soon and that payload is wasted. 

[glenn57]

The DNR was watching the harvest amounts for many years before the netting ever started. My parents were business owners in Garrison and my Dad would get the DNR reports every year showing what they estimated harvest was. I remember seeing them as far back as the late 80's. The was always way more than what they thought the safe harvest should be. And my point about the slot was that had the netting not started the lake would have stayed with the 1 over 20" allowing the harvest to be spread out over more year classes. So yes the netting had a effect. And I agree with Glenn, the fish should be allowed to spawn before they are netted. I think it is different when they are all concentrated spawnig verses being caught during other times of the year.

  EXACTLY!!!!!!!! taking a limit of walleyes NOT  during the spawning season VS during and with nets doesnt even compare.

[Rebel SS]

If they applied some of the spawning salmon rules like in a few other states, maybe there'd be a lot more of 'em left. (But they don't net 'em either, to my knowledge)

[Lee Borgersen]

  Wa hoppen   I was tinkin dis tread was bout muskies killin walleyes

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rebel SS]

Gots to have the walleyes for 'em to kill!  Besides, Glenn'll never catch a musky! 

[Lee Borgersen]

Gots to have the walleyes for 'em to kill!  Besides, Glenn'll never catch a musky! 

Yep! From what I heard on da street dat he caught sumpin else but don't like talkin bout it

[glenn57]

Gots to have the walleyes for 'em to kill!  Besides, Glenn'll never catch a musky! 

datz cuse i dont fish fer'em!!!!!!!!!!

[glenn57]

  Wa hoppen   I was tinkin dis tread was bout muskies killin walleyes

yea well DEL started it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[delcecchi]

Nah, meat fishermen and game law violators kill walleye lakes.

This must have been the line that derailed the musky discussion.  Note that it was on topic.  Not muskies but anglers, even if glenn can't see that a walleye in a bucket in Feruary won't be spawning in April.   

[glenn57]

it asked muskies, not fishermen so yea it was off topic. and my 2 walleyes in da february bucket doesnt amount to squat to the 500 plus in da net each day!!