Electric vehicles~

[snow1]

interesting read on whether it is immoral to purchase a EV,

Just a short snippet our media fails to address as they push biden's agenda to kill fossil fuel.

Quote;

The extraordinary amounts of mining needed to produce electric vehicles are not only environmentally disastrous, they also carry large human costs. The cobalt that is needed for every electric vehicle comes mostly from the Congo and is produced by child labor.

 the extent that a tiny percentage of the electricity stored in EV batteries comes from solar panels, they are mostly produce by slave labor in China. And, for what it’s worth, Chinese solar panels are produced with coal-fired power plants.
“Green” energy is a catastrophically bad idea. I think many people understand that wind and solar power and electric vehicles are economically ruinous, but when we also take into account environmental degradation and child and slave labor, one can seriously question whether it is immoral to buy an electric car.

Further~today, a typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.

[dutchboy]

The part that should scare you is Russia produces / controls 25% of the worlds nickel.

[Steve-o]

The part that should scare you is Russia produces / controls 25% of the worlds nickel.

[snow1]

Geez steve-o,little man syndrom putin just looks evil,lot's of rumors floating putin is in poor health,some say cancer,wouldn't surprise me with how lax russia is with nucular waste,if true he deserves a slow painful death for his mis deeds as the moscow butcher ,karma will come one day for putin.

[Steve-o]

If history is any indication...  There are 4 more just like him waiting in the wings.

[snow1]

That's scary if true,war propaganda claims 11 russian generals no longer above ground,it's hard to understand the russian mindset,the massive human toll they have caused,the destruction all for a land grab,disgusting,the way NATO is building forces these days something bigger is coming,just a matter of time until ukraine sails a kamikaze drone in to downtown moscow,then things will really get worse.

scarier yet is biden's brilliant move to drain our strategic oil supply for his personel war on our fossil fuel energy.how pathetic. All this hate because of a mean tweeter  orange man,that gave us energy independence and much more like secured our southern border for starters.such a shame,no plan or end insight with this current administration.

these corrupt clowns on the hill would rather focus on this B.S. jan6th charade rather than the wellfare of our nation.,it ain't working.

[dutchboy]

I found it interesting how far some of those patriot guys traveled to get to Idaho before being arrested.

[Pulleye16]

I’m not pro electric but I don’t see why so many people have such great hatred towards it…it’s just another option. And personally, I can’t WAIT for boats, ATV’s, snowmobile and other toys become powered by batteries. It’ll bring more peace and quiet for the nature lovers. I HATE hearing ATV’s while sitting in my deer stand at 9am. Just imagine how quiet a battery powered boat would be.

Regarding child labor… I mean, what isn’t when it’s coming from china or other third world countries? Walk around your house. I’d bet so much of what you own comes from a country that uses child labor. Unless you’re 100% all in, don’t waste internet data protesting batteries…cause I’m sure you have a few in your boat, maybe one in your truck, probably one in your ATV already. Just saying.

Does that make it right? No. But I’m using my China made iPhone to type this right now so I can’t complain.

And later tonight, I’ll use my terrorist fueled ambulance and fire truck to respond to someone in cardiac arrest that uses a cell powered battery AED built by an 8 y/o child in China to save someone’s life…and that’s how I sleep at night.

[Leech~~]

 

[Dotch]

Hey! I was gonna post that one. Now I'll hafta go post something on the sasquatch thread...

[Leech~~]

Hey! I was gonna post that one. Now I'll hafta go post something on the sasquatch thread...

Here, you can post this one!   

[Boar]

Ther ya go!

[dutchboy]

Whoever thought a political special interest group could ever get bigger than big oil & gas. My-O-My, where have we gone.   

[LPS]

Never thought about that.  Bring the Honda generator along to charge the car battery.  Good one Boar!

[snow1]

Ther ya go!

LOL,agreed Boar it's just a start,soon we'll see our DOT hiway helpers towing a mobil gas generator to assist these folks.

[Jerkbiat]

I’m not pro electric but I don’t see why so many people have such great hatred towards it…it’s just another option. And personally, I can’t WAIT for boats, ATV’s, snowmobile and other toys become powered by batteries. It’ll bring more peace and quiet for the nature lovers. I HATE hearing ATV’s while sitting in my deer stand at 9am. Just imagine how quiet a battery powered boat would be.

Regarding child labor… I mean, what isn’t when it’s coming from china or other third world countries? Walk around your house. I’d bet so much of what you own comes from a country that uses child labor. Unless you’re 100% all in, don’t waste internet data protesting batteries…cause I’m sure you have a few in your boat, maybe one in your truck, probably one in your ATV already. Just saying.

Does that make it right? No. But I’m using my China made iPhone to type this right now so I can’t complain.

And later tonight, I’ll use my terrorist fueled ambulance and fire truck to respond to someone in cardiac arrest that uses a cell powered battery AED built by an 8 y/o child in China to save someone’s life…and that’s how I sleep at night.

You are right Pulleye. EV is a good option for some people. The rub is the gubmint forcing out the other options that the majority of people would rather have. The problem is the fairy tale that it is truly "green". If they want green then hydrogen would be the better option. Not sure why that faded away.

[Leech~~]

Whoever thought a political special interest group could ever get bigger than big oil & gas. My-O-My, where have we gone.   

And their working to eliminate their selves?      

[Steve-o]

The problem is the fairy tale that it is truly "green". If they want green then hydrogen would be the better option. Not sure why that faded away.

[Reaching into my drawer for my tin foil hat.]

I don't think hydrogen is viable yet, but if it was on the path, no one was going to be able to make money with it and all they other guys stood to lose money.

[glenn57]

  electric vehicles is NEVER EVER going to come to full fruitation........EVER!!!!! hell there already talking and complaining the power grid as it is now cant handle whats needed now. and thats even with the few electric cars out there.

and as soon as these kooks get there friggin head out of there  the better. most these idjiots dont have a clue what these electric cars consist of, and the fact that there the same people against oil and mining....................

ok rant over!!!!!!!

[Pulleye16]

I’m not pro electric but I don’t see why so many people have such great hatred towards it…it’s just another option. And personally, I can’t WAIT for boats, ATV’s, snowmobile and other toys become powered by batteries. It’ll bring more peace and quiet for the nature lovers. I HATE hearing ATV’s while sitting in my deer stand at 9am. Just imagine how quiet a battery powered boat would be.

Regarding child labor… I mean, what isn’t when it’s coming from china or other third world countries? Walk around your house. I’d bet so much of what you own comes from a country that uses child labor. Unless you’re 100% all in, don’t waste internet data protesting batteries…cause I’m sure you have a few in your boat, maybe one in your truck, probably one in your ATV already. Just saying.

Does that make it right? No. But I’m using my China made iPhone to type this right now so I can’t complain.

And later tonight, I’ll use my terrorist fueled ambulance and fire truck to respond to someone in cardiac arrest that uses a cell powered battery AED built by an 8 y/o child in China to save someone’s life…and that’s how I sleep at night.

You are right Pulleye. EV is a good option for some people. The rub is the gubmint forcing out the other options that the majority of people would rather have. The problem is the fairy tale that it is truly "green". If they want green then hydrogen would be the better option. Not sure why that faded away.

Yeah, not a fan of government over reach and telling us what we need. I totally agree with all on that. That said, I’m all for “another” source of fuel. I don’t think cars should be the first path we go down, but as far as boats, ATV, snowmobile and other options,  hells yes! Hands down these should be going battery.

The other thing we need to realize is that batteries are already being made for so much already. Including cars and everything else we burning gas in. It’s not like mining and child labor didn’t exist prior to the world wanting EV.  It’s going to increase, sure.

Anyways. I’m with you all. I just don’t see EV themselves as a negative…maybe just how it’s being rolled out.

[snow1]

pulleye~

This EV issue folks fail to understand or just ignor is the long term environmental effects,strip minning these minerals will only last so many years then what? these lithium mines are really detrimenal to our environment plus batteries cannot be refurbished then what? more hazardous trash, further we already have ev bikes and atv's but few can afford these vehicles,with the cost of utilities these days we will go broke charging these things,I plotted out a trip (summer temps) to drive a chevy bolt to my place in chamberlain sodak,6-7 hours in my truck,12-14hours by this chevy bolt stopping and finding a charging station,better yet a over night stay,during winter month's a two day trip as our cold weather zaps 40% of the ev battery,GM's electric silverado is due out in 2024,gotta get on a waiting list then it's a maybe,wouldn't touch these first production models myself but folks are linning up,only 15k being built the first year nation wide,curious to see specs on these trucks,can you hang a plow,pull a camper or boat? time will tell but whoever had the hairbrain idea to shut down our fossil fuel energy needs shock therapy..

Further the majority of lithium comes from china,as are these ev GM engines "made in china" our country is on the outs with china today as all these GM/ford micro processing chips for  our vehicles are back ordered,hence very little new vehicle inventory these days...china is the puppet master,or so it seems,biden sure is giving china a pass...

Oh well life goes on,just gotta dig deeper and life style changes,no end in sight as far as our commodities go,with this administration.

[Dotch]

Not totally against the electric vehicles but they have a long way to go. It's kind of interesting to look back on the history of electric vehicles too. Studebaker at one time was a pioneer in the electric vehicle field. They got out of it as the trend in the industry was going to vehicles with internal combustion engines. They have improved in performance but electric vehicles had the same problems and issues that they still have today. Limited range, cold weather problems, heavy batteries, long recharge time relative to refueling with petro and the list goes on. For short trips, probably fine. They also have a lot of work to do to get the infrastructure 1st in place to deal with the numbers they're planning on. This notion that we can just switch everything over to electric and we're good needs to be approached with both eyes open. A gradual, careful transition with the market calling the shots makes more sense as opposed to government mandates dictating what we'll be able to drive. Also a good point snow that one thing this COVID debacle should have shown even the dumbest politician should be able to figure out that we need to produce more of this stuff in the US to avoid the supply problems we've had.   

[Leech~~]

It’s not like mining and child labor didn’t exist prior to the world wanting EV.  It’s going to increase, sure.
I just don’t see EV themselves as a negative…

Yeah, screw them little bastards, some ones got to do it! 
 
Plus we have to save the world, for our children!   

[Jerkbiat]

Not totally against the electric vehicles but they have a long way to go. It's kind of interesting to look back on the history of electric vehicles too. Studebaker at one time was a pioneer in the electric vehicle field. They got out of it as the trend in the industry was going to vehicles with internal combustion engines. They have improved in performance but electric vehicles had the same problems and issues that they still have today. Limited range, cold weather problems, heavy batteries, long recharge time relative to refueling with petro and the list goes on. For short trips, probably fine. They also have a lot of work to do to get the infrastructure 1st in place to deal with the numbers they're planning on. This notion that we can just switch everything over to electric and we're good needs to be approached with both eyes open. A gradual, careful transition with the market calling the shots makes more sense as opposed to government mandates dictating what we'll be able to drive. Also a good point snow that one thing this COVID debacle should have shown even the dumbest politician should be able to figure out that we need to produce more of this stuff in the US to avoid the supply problems we've had.   

Right. Give me an HD truck with a 1000 mile range pulling a 5th wheel camper and maybe then I would think about. They do make good grocery getters though. Also for boats, snowmobiles and ATVs the range is still the limitation. The electric snowmobiles I seen a couple years ago only had a 70-80 mile range. No charging  station out in the woods. Also hate to run out of juice in a boat out on the lake. What does make some sense to me is the hybrids. When the batteries get low the gas motor kicks in to charge.

[Pulleye16]

There are some really good articles about electric boats and how the infrastructure is almost already there with power on the docks. I thought I read they have a 70 mile range…hell, that’ll get most of us thru the summer! Lol.

Ranches out west have been praising the EV ATV as well. Quiet around animals and stealthy while hunting. These also have a good range and quick charge. 

[LPS]

I think it was on here awhile back that someone posted a big hp outboard that was electric.  I think it still sounded cool since it was a lot of horse power. 

[Leech~~]

It's going to be fun in about 20 years after all these EV start getting old and land fills start filling with dead batteries. Suppose there will be a New-New Green Deal by then? 
It kind of reminds me of how cheap older Elc golf carts are going for on Market Place when it costs almost as much as it's worth to replace all the batteries. 

[LPS]

Hopefully they can recycle the battery materials.

[dutchboy]

It's going to be fun in about 20 years after all these EV start getting old and land fills start filling with dead batteries. Suppose there will be a New-New Green Deal by then? 
It kind of reminds me of how cheap older Elc golf carts are going for on Market Place when it costs almost as much as it's worth to replace all the batteries. 

I just dropped nearly $900 on batteries for a 48 volt golf cart.

[glenn57]

It's going to be fun in about 20 years after all these EV start getting old and land fills start filling with dead batteries. Suppose there will be a New-New Green Deal by then? 
It kind of reminds me of how cheap older Elc golf carts are going for on Market Place when it costs almost as much as it's worth to replace all the batteries. 

I just dropped nearly $900 on batteries for a 48 volt golf cart.

ouch...
That could buy alot of gas, OR better beer than you drink!!!