Red Lake Band Commercial Fishery

[Woody]

Grant lets Red Lake band open a commercial fishery

The Associated Press
 
Tues. April 10th, 2007

RED LAKE, Minn. ? The Red Lake band of Chippewa is planning to open a commercial walleye processing plant in June thanks to a $1 million grant from the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community.

Red Lake Chairman Floyd "Buck" Jourdain Jr. said the band will open the Redby plant where tribal members will fillet and freeze the catch themselves.

The operation would be part of Red Lake Foods, which already sells wild berry jams and syrups and wild rice.

Jourdain said only hook-and-line fishing would be allowed for at least the first two or three years. The walleye catch limit, which was 10 fish per day on tribal waters in 2006, may be raised, but the harvest would not exceed the band's total quota, he said.

The band controls all of Lower Red Lake and roughly 60 percent of Upper Red Lake. Only band members are permitted to keep fish caught in tribal waters.

In the mid-1990s, walleye populations in Red Lake declined dramatically, leading to a ban on commercial fishing. In 1999, the band entered a 10-year agreement with the state of Minnesota and the Bureau of Indian Affairs to restore the fishery. Walleye fishing on Red Lake resumed last spring.

[Spinach]

I don't like it!

[kenhuntin]

Is there anyone out there that didn't see this coming?

[WoodChuck]

 ???  and bare it !! thats how it will always be , when the rich get richer and the greedy get paid for what their fore fathers sold to be a free nation within a nation . their richs by our means and it will never change !  ::

                                   woodchuck

[rchaze60]

i dont like it either ...... why dont they just go ahead and take the other 40% of URL cause if you cross the invisable line you in trouble anyway RIGHT????????

[Spinach]

I've been fishing Upper Red lake ever since 1996 and I'm almost positive that we only have aproximately 20% of the lake. I'm not sure where they came up with 40%.

If you look at a map of both Upper and Lower, there is no way we have 40%..... Thats almost half.

[WoodChuck]

 ??? 20 % of the lake and all of the expense and they get all the profits by just watching them grow !? :: ::hittingself::

[labs4me]

They have 80 % of the waters... they are given 80% of the total available "take", it is a hard quota that will be enforced.  They are not using gill nets, they have slots and limits in place, they have a DNR and their own game wardens now... let's give it a chance!  It's a heck of a lot better than the old program!

There is no reason to fear the Band taking fish from there portion of Red Lake.  I'm friends with one of the Biologists whose job was to restore Red Lake... believe me it can handle the harvest again.   The Band harvested 14,000 pounds of walleye in 2006... we harvested close to 150,000 pounds... we have 18% of the lake vs. their 82%....

We have no say on what goes on in the reservation, but as sportsman we have a lot of say as to what goes on on our side of the lake.  It ain't pretty either... Drive out on the lake and look at the piles of garbage left by "us" sportsman!  Empty cans, empty propane cylinders, cigarette butts, bags of crap and piles of walleye carcasses left on the ice (illegal to clean walleyes on the ice), in the slot and out of the slot, how many walleye over the limit were snuck off the lake?  We need to get our house in order before we start lobbing stones.  The lake can handle the forecasted 1,000,000 pounds of harvest... it can't handle the illegal harvest!  That is what did it in the 1st time!  on both sides of the line!  My father in law even admits it is what they all did!  2-3 LIMITS A DAY EVERY DAY UP THERE.  THAT WAS NORMAL PROTOCOL!

Let it play out.  If they start boot legging fish, then raise a stink.... if they ask for relaxed regs on the quotas, raise a stink, if they go back to gilnetting, raise a stink... In the interim, watch out for the pukes that call themselves sportsman and turn everyone of the poachers in to T.I.P.   We can change what happens on our side of the line!!!

Good Luck!

Ken

[JohnWester]

If they start boot legging fish, then raise a stink....

but how will we ever know??

and i agree, let's take care of our own backyard first.

[UncleDave]

The main problem I see is that this was only a 10 year agreement.  Minnesota taxpayers and fisherman paid the millions to restock the damage the indians did to the lake.  We pay to rstock, and in a short time frame I am assuming they can go back to doing whatever they want.  I hope if they fish it out again, the DNR is wise enough to stay out of it and leave the lake as a world class crappie fishery (I actually wish they had done that in the first place).  There are lots of places to catch walleye, not many where you can limit out on 12''-17" crappies!

[Mopad]

AMEN TO THAT LABS4ME!

We should be more worried about what the non-tribal people are doing to the lake right now then the tribal...  I have fished near the res line the last 2 -3 years now, and I have yet to see anyone fishing on the tribal waters.  On the non-tribal waters this is a different story.  Garbage all over the place and trash all over on the shore in the spring, overlimits be taken, etc.  I guess I'm not too worried about the tribal people ruining the lake right now.

Mopad

[Dr.Bob]

Bravo Ken!

I too am very disgusted with what goes on on "our part of the lake". 

What the tribe is doing now sounds like a conservative and sensible plan. 

Like you siad, if they start to abuse it then it will be time to make a stink.  Not now.

[HOTROD]

Here is my thought.  If you don't approve of the idea of commercial fishing, Don't buy the fish.

[labs4me]

Big Fish Guy... You'll know bootlegging if it happens... they show up in parking lots all over the place trying to sell fillets out of coolers.... $1.00 a/piece, went on for decades, the band says they will prosecute any member caught doing so.

Uncle Dave, the state paid approx. 15% of the restocking costs.  The same amount of the water we control.  The BIA and the Band paid the rest.  They have a lot more at stake than we do!  They also had a lot more voulunteers on the front side helping out with the restocking efforts.  The lake would probably never remain a "world class crappie fishery" that we all wanted and would love.   In talks with my buddy (the biologist), the crappies on Red will only pull off one successful spawn every 5-10 years.  There would be almost no way to 'manange' the lake for crappies.  The walleye would've eventually came back on their own.  It just would've taken a couple decades as opposed to 7 years.  It's a walleye lake and wants to be a walleye lake.  Crappies are a tier 2 predator in the lake and fill a small void that was magnified by a instant reduction in walleye numbers.  Just think if it was the sheepshead that filled the void!  We just lucked out that the stars and moons all lined up and gave us and the locals of Waskish the greatest crappie fishing that anyone will probably ever experience in this state.

I'm not condoning the problems the Band created in the past, nor am I worried about the future as we talk right now.  If the past repeats itself with the way they are handling their resources, we have a right to be mad... but let things play out.  We did a lot to damage the lake in the past and it still goes on today.  Let's work on making sure everyone around you is playing above the board...  Keep an eye out for those who are littering or double dipping or cleaning fish on the ice.  The CO's can't be everywhere, but true sportsman are an extra set of eyes to help them out.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Russ-Judy]

this is just my opinion-STAY OUT OF THE CASINO"S- where do you think the money comes from

[JohnWester]

this is just my opinion-STAY OUT OF THE CASINO"S- where do you think the money comes from

::dito ::dito ::dito

[Fawkinnae]

This is a good thread. Great exchange of information, observations  and opinions.
Thanks. I learned something.

[Woody]

My turn to chime in.  I only posted this to share the info. I read.  I didn't want to start up another round of controversy over this already touchy subject.  And I thank you-the members of MNO for not turning this into a bickering session.  Another reason I'm proud to be part of MNO-YOU the great members we have here! ::rockon::

*Labs4me-thank you for filling in some of the blanks (at least for me). 
*Russ & Judy- I prefer state lottery, the proceeds go towards natural resources.

[Desperado]

Russ is right, I learned that lesson when the MilleLacs band spent a lot of money on a court case and WON!

Labs, all your points are well taken and I agree;
HOWEVER, whenever I see this statement: .  .  .
"the state paid approx. 15% of the restocking costs.  The same amount of the water we control.  The BIA and the Band paid the rest."
 . . . The question that immediately comes to my mind is this; where did the money for the 15% that the state paid come from and where did the money for the 85% that the BIA and Band paid come from?

[UncleDave]

Labs4me, I am not trying to be confrontational, but you responded that the band paid for 85% of the restocking costs.  Do you have a link showing that.  I tried a general Yahoo search and even a MN DNR website search for "Red Lake Minnesota restocking funding" and came up with nothing (especially at the DNR site with a whole bunch of articles with nothing to do with funding).  My only question is how the band funded this ENORMOUS cost, unless another band helped out.  In that case it makes sense.     

[labs4me]

I got it... I'll have to find it.  Been years since this whole debate needed "proof".  The BIA got the money from the federal govt.  The band used what ever money they were able to appropriate through their budgets... It wasn't near as expensive as everyone thinks either...

Good luck!

Ken

[labs4me]

Iwas wrong... we paid for about a third of the re-stocking...  Memory had me remembering it was based on amount of water controled.  The Band still paid the lion's share and it was not as expensive as we all want to believe.

It costed $68,000 per stocking/year.  500 quarts of walleye fry.  The band and BIA paid $40,000 per year, the State paid $28,000.  Our cronies in the Capitol piss that away by the minute!

Here is a quote from one article:
  The Red Lake Fisheries Association voted to suspend all operations in 1997, and the Red Lake Tribal Council banned all gill net use.

            After more meetings, an agreement was signed in April 1999, which called for stocking 40 million walleye fry up to five times during the next ten years, a zero-walleye limit on all Tribal and state waters until walleye stocks recover, and increased enforcement efforts. The Red Lake Band would pay $40,000 of the $68,000 annual cost of the project, with the state DNR paying the remaining $28,000 from money generated by fishing license sales.

http://www.rlnn.com/newsarticlespast/RLDNRConWrkWallRecProj.html

Though this next one doesn't give the amount in dollars it notes that the BIA will re-imberse the State the majority of the cost to restock the lake.  I've since become friends with one of the lead biologists and I can get a quote from him if need be...

http://www.lakevermilion.com/SCLV/newsletters/newsletter25-1.html#eggs

I will look for substantiating articles if you need me to keep digging.  I know I have more if I dig long and hard.  It's been a couple of years at least since I needed to look these up.

Here's a couple of the restocking efforts... lots of photos, pretty cool!  It is noted that the last couple of stockings actually came from "Red Lake" walleyes, thus lowering the cost of the stocking from $68,000 to $40,000 as the fry did not need to be bought.

(by the way... everyone is dying to see Lower Red from a boat, here it is  )

http://www.rlnn.com/ArticlesMay04/WalleyeStocking.html

http://www.rlnn.com/ArticlesApr04/FishTrap.html

Enjoy! the lake is back! Yahoo!!!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Outdoors Junkie]

Thanks for sharing all the facts and info Ken.

[redlakenative]

The redlake band can NOT control the Gang activity,  truancy, alcohol abuse, meth addiction, weed problem, cocaine problem, heroin addiction, with unemployment is at a record high,  come on....how on Gods green earth do you think they are gonna control commercial fishing.????????        You have to move a little closer than 2-3 hundred  miles to underestand how this economiclly depressed area functions!!!!!!!!
   

[Spinach]

Redlakenative,

Thankyou for your reply, you have spoken my thoughts exactly on this topic. I don't know a whole lot about the Red lake band or the area, other than just coming up a few times per year, but from all of the stories and recent articles in the papers etc..... My first thought was exactly what you have stated here.

I usually agree with Labs on most if not all of these debates, but I'll be a part of the minority on this and have to strongly disagree with this working out.

I sure hope it goes well, but common sense tells me this will be another disaster.

[rchaze60]

hope it goes well too ........ we will just have to see what happens .......... aleast let them try to see if it works and if it does then cool and if it dont then we can all say TOLD YOU SO !!!!!!!!! :ROTFLMAO:

[holdemtwice]

 I WILL HAVE TO AGREE WITH SPINACH ON THIS . Hearing it from one of the folks that live up there .  threre is your truth !!!   thanx Redlakenative for the insight ! i think more folks should read  and pay attention to what you type. So far it seems like most people care about the fish and not so much about the cause, i mean the real cause, the underlying truth. i know i will probably  not make any friends over this , but it is and was a good point !!  SCOTT

[UncleDave]

labs4me, no need to search long and hard.  I don't doubt your findings as the cost is far less than I expected.  The one thing that I would have to say regarding the cost, is that often those that want to paint a rosy picture often don't tell the whole ugly truth.  Maybe I'm picking at bones, but do these numbers include transportation costs for the fish as well as the salaries of the DNR folks took to the time to handle the fish, or is this simply the cost of the fish themselves?  Maybe I'm knit picking, but I have often seen government numbers on things through the years that were so flawed due to leaving out items like this (depending on their motive for reporting the numbers).  As the old saying goes, 'numbers lie'.  At least they lie at times.

The crime issues and illegal activities really have nothing to do with the potential for abuse with regard to fishing in my opinion.  That's equal to saying until Minneapolis gets a hold on drug dealing and robberies, they shouldn't invest in new businesses because they can't control their own neighborhoods.  I think that is off subject.  Just my 2 cents.       

[barebackjack]

My opinion (it seems they are plenty on this subject) is to listen to the voices of knowledge not opinion and base your facts on what is in front of you, not what we "think" is going to happen, its just another reason to get all riled up over something we dont know is the inevitable.

[dabahrden]

Has anyone ever done a study on the income potential of the Red Lake Band selling licenses to fish on tribal waters?  Just my opinion, but I think they would make more money just offering fishing on their portion of Upper Red than they would with the commercial fishing.