May 1st Walk-Out

[Mayfly]

Well this really isn't related to the Minnesota Outdoors but it is interesting.

Has anyone heard of this? All immigrants (Mexicans) legal and illegal plan to walk off the jobs and into the streets to protest and to demand that 12 million illegal immigrants be granted citizenship.


Read For Yourself: Click Here

[Brandon_Collins]

I say they should go back to there border hoping country we dont need them anyway we can have lots of people fill in there jobs. Just my 2 cents

Brandon

[Brandon_Collins]

I think if they want to leave let leave we dont need there spanish in our country anyway

Brandon

[Hick_Fisher2005]

Brandon im behind u 110 percent. I believe if there going to b stupid enough to to give there illegal asses up and parade around in the streets we should take advantage of it and round all their border hopping, illegal asses up and send em back where they came from. Ill even volunteer to bring some zip ties and my truck and drive back across the border.

Josh

[Spinach]

I do have to say that Mexicans, latinos etc.... are the hardest working labor people i have ever seen.

A lot of roofs and siding jobs will have to wait if they end up walking out.

The crew that did my siding on my house last summer wouldn't even take a water break, they worked from sunrise to dark for 2 days and did some outstanding work.

I dont agree with the walkout, but I can understand how the immigrants would want to come to our country, roofers, siding crews get paid a lot of money for this and most work their butts off.

[jigglestick]

i have a stand on this issue which i am not afraid to voice and i will.
i will however state that this type of thread has the potential to get out of hand, so use some common sense and the teensiest bit of tact when making your points. this is easily done.

my stand on the matter is simple and i will take on, and bash all arguements in favor of illegal immigration, even going so far as to push for the punishment of all who condone it.

first and foremost, they are here illegally!
go through the naturalization process. period.
no fake green cards.

i will seed a couple of arguments since there are none here yet.

these are statements i have heard in the past time and time again.

the first being "who else can we get to willingly do the hard jobs. they are willing to step in and do the crappy work no one else wants to do"?
i say, if the job paid enough there would be no problem getting natural american workers to do the same job. roofing, siding, cleaning hotels, landscaping, what ever the job may be.
then they say "we can't pay more and stay competetive"
i say if all the employers were held to the same standard then the over all cost of the job would have to go up to pay for the wage increase, passing the cost on to the consumer. this is what needs to be done. this is the legal way to lay sod, or roof a house.
i say all employers who hire illegals should do jail time.

some say"they have as much right to be here and work as we do"
i say "WRONG"!
we are natural citizens.
and to the politicians who support giving them drivers licenses, they should do jail time for suggesting it. these people are here illegally.

answer me this. what does it mean to all of you to be an american citizen?
to me it is an honor to be a part of the greatest country in the world.
answer me this.
how does it feel to know that the moral and natural integrity is being compromised everyday, willingly, knowingly by our neighbors and leaders?
i grew up in saint paul in the sixties and seventies. i knew the neighborhoods. i knew what to expect when i rode my bike through unfamiliar neighborhoods. i also was fairly certain that i would not be called anything other that "fat boy" or "chubby". nowdays i am not sure i would make it through some neighbor hoods alive.
to stop and look at any intersections and see the somali's or mexicans or who know's who and what they are.
maybe i need what some of you refer to as sensitivity  or diversity training, but i also know that i am glad that i will be dead and not have to look at what this country will become in another fifty years keeping the same course.

we are the voice. our leaders choose to ingnore small voices, but remember that this is our country and when spoken loud enough, we are heard.
everybody has a "what can i do about it anyway" attitude.
this needs to change.
we need to take that politicaly correct attitude and throw it out to the dump where it belongs.
we are killing this country ourselves.
with each illegal we tollerate.
it's time to stop.

Brandon, please specify if you are refering to "spanish" as the language or as the culture.
i am assuming it is the first one.

lets go!!

[GRIZ]

Illegals have no place in the great ol' USA. If they themselves think it's as great as I do they would go through the legal channels to become citzens.

To me it would be a tradgedy if the polititians listen to their protest. They don't listen to me and I've been a citizen all my life, why should they start listening to people who don't even have a right to vote?

I agree with they work very hard, they have to at less than half the price or someone might turn them in to deportation. As for the legal imigrants they work just as hard but they think enough of this country to want citizenship and learn to speak english which is our national language. I work with a guy who is not a legal citizen, he has his work visa and has had for 5 yrs. He is still in the process of gaining citizenship, he knows how to speak english as well as read and write it too. He is a very brilliant person who just wants to make a better life for himself, who can blame him for that?

What is scary is that some of the illegals are not here to make their life better, rather to take advantage of our more than generous society. We don't have to let them take advantage of us like that, if we do we have no one to blame but ourselves. If this protest goes on TV let them know what ya think of it by turning it off. The ratings are kept track of and sponsors will get the message. Would you wqant to sponsor it?

[jigglestick]

how does this frost your cookies? ::)

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20060428/0807444126.htm

[Brandon_Collins]

The spanish language i am a high school student and think it is B.S. that we have to take spanish in high school as a required class. The is the biggest hunk of crap ever it is the worst class ever. It is our language our country and we dont want or need the B.S. language. I say when they all get together we get every cop in minnesota to round all them up to see all who all has green cards and for anyone of them who doesnt they get a 1st class ride back down the Border Hopping country.

Brandon
**Swearing edited by Spinach**

[Hick_Fisher2005]

spanish in high school is B.S. I was born to two american parents that were both born to two more american parents. I have nothing against talking at home in your native tongue but when u step out your door and into an amercan society speak the language. i dont give a rip if u made it across the border without getting caught, good for u, hop ur butt back across the border. im tired of hearing protestors and government officials claiming that since there here they should be able to stay, like i said before if their gonna be stupid enough to give themselves up then arrest em and deport em. Let me make this perfectly clear SPEAK ENGLISH.

**Swearing edited by Spinach**

[Spinach]

Just another reminder to be careful what you say in this thread, this could be a great discussion if we follow a few simple rules.

Please keep race and racist remarks out of here, and to get your point across does not mean every other word has to be a swear word.

Lets keep this as clean as possible and still give our opinions on this matter.

[labs4me]

And now... the rest of the story...

Fortunatley or unfortunatley this is what I deal with every day. ?It's a fact of life that we as a business now rely heavily on an immigrant work force to fulfill our obligations to our clients. ?I was going to stay out of this as I can see it is going to be a "bashing thread", but here goes...

It is NOT a fact that if we pay more to an American worker, that they will perform the same tasks and provide the same amount of production (ie: landscape work) as an immigrant. ?Unfortunatley as a society we have spoiled and coddled and softened our youth to the point that manual labor is no longer an option for them... no matter what the rate of pay! ?Actually a lot of them couldn't even handle it physically (or mentally). ? Over half of our kids that try to work for us, quit within 1-2 weeks after being hired and complain it is a lot harder work than they thought it would be. ?It is also a fact that we pay our immigrant workforce the same pay as anybody who walks through the door. ?They are no cheaper for us to employ than any other "white" worker that is employed here at our company. ?If you know of any white people who'd like to come and work here, tell them to ring me up and they'll get hired! ?Good pay and bennies.... ?

Next "Raising everyone's pay" ?will not and/or does not increase your standard of living or make you better off or make your job more attractive or lucrative IN THE LONG RUN. ?Temporarily it works, but as pay goes up, the costs of goods and/or services goes up, making ALL related goods and services increase in pay to the extent that ultimatley you have no better buying power than you did 5 years earlier. ?A good case in point is the housing market... look at how everything went up in costs rapidly... yet no one is any better off (except the initial people who owned and/or developed the land) now than they were 10 years ago... all the increases were attributed to the across the board increases in materials and labor and in the end you are left holding the same dollars you had 10 years ago. ?Good ol' supply and demand... ?Canada's pay scales and minimum wages are a lot higher than America's.? Do they have a better standard of living? ?Nope... ?but everything costs more in Canada. ?It is all relevant and related, higher rates of pay = higher costs of goods and services.

I guess here at work we follow all the laws and rules set forth for us to hire our immigrants. ?I hope you don't feel I should be put in prison too, as every year we lose a couple to the INS because they were here illegally. ?Did I knowingly break a law? NO... How are we to discern if they are legal or illegal? ?They have the "proper" documentation (making fraudulent cards and papers isn't that hard) and we file all the proper forms, but yet some of them get around the sysytem by making and using fake papers. ?A good counterfeiter can make money that you couldn't tell from a real bill, yet are you to be held responsible if you unknowingly pass one at a store?

I agree that all people should be here in America legally. ?I hope they aspire to become citizens, but truth be told, some only want to be here for a short period of time and do not wish to become citizens. ?Do I hold animosity towards those that choose to do that? ?NOPE. ?I just hope they attain the proper visas to remain here during their stay. ?That is like us saying: as an American citizen, you cannot go to work in Japan, Germany, Hong Kong, etc. even for a couple years. ?That means American corporations like 3M, McDonalds, and the like would have to close all those worldwide branches down or not hire American citizens to work there.? Are these Americans unpatritotic for working tax free in another country?? ?Some people (yes, even Americans) choose to work in foreign countries for a couple years for economic reasons... (money) and that goes for the Latino work force. ?A lot of them will not be here when they retire.

Which brings me to my next point... the politicians aren't going to be to quick to rid our society of these immigrants (legal and illegal) for one real big reason... they are helping to keep social security afloat. ?All their pay roll withholdings and the accompanying match by the employer are going into a system that needs x-tra money to keep it afloat, and right now it is coming from the immigrants. ?A lot of these guys are paying in and have no intention on ever using it as a retirement pension.

With all that said, let me state this emphatically... ?I do not condone that people of any nationality reside in America illegally. ?I do not feel they should be allowed privledges like: a drivers license, schooling for their children or health care. ?I do think the system should be simplified so we can easily check someone's status here in America before hiring. ?I think the system is also askew for those coming here to become citizens. ?Plain and simple, when you came to America a hundred years ago, you got off a boat on an island, filled out some paper work and went and got a job and melded into society. ?It's not quite that easy anymore. ? Our pathtic, overly pregnant government has gotten this system so twisted around itself, that it too like most arms and functions of the government is a boondoggle.

I do not think any immigrant or nationality is entitled to any special rules or tests being printed in their native tounge. ?I don't feel schools should offer "special" courses for your kids in your native tounge. ?I don't feel our National Anthem should ever be sung in any language other than English. ?I do feel we as a society should welcome immigrants as long as they are doing so legally. ?I don't feel it's fair to lump them all together as Brandon and "Hick" did. ?Guys like this are a bain to our society just as much as an illegal immigrant. ?A lot these Latinos they want to round up aren't the illegal border hoppers they portrey, but rather are here legally and are trying to make it as an American just like my Grandpa did 80 years ago. ?My gramps also did "$hit" work that no self respecting American would do back then... he cleaned the stock yards in Omaha and then in Chicago (and oh yeah, he didn't speak a word of English either). ?It was even happening back then... immigrants did the crap work that us "Patriots" wouldn't even begin to lower ourselves to do. ?I bet there are plenty of "white" Amercan people that are riled up on this issue that are descended from some that managed get here illegally 100-200 years ago....

I don't agree with their work stoppage (or anybody elses). ? If I have anybody not show up to work on Monday, they will be held accountable and told to take the entire week off... no pay. ? Kinda hard to make ends meet and make up for a weeks worth of lost pay (even if you managed to get a raise, which they won't). ?If they want to quit, fine! ?We will get by, always have, always will. ?Everyone is replaceable... even me!

Those that know me, know I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, but rather I'm a pretty staunch conservative. ?I'm also a realist. ?This is coming to a head because of politics and the media. ?It is the problem du-jour. ?To hear people like Hillary bantor about fencing the borders makes my head spin! ? This is the rhetoric that they attacked Buchanan for using. ?They termed him an 'isolationist'. ?But now they picked it up and are running with it trying to garner more votes probably because of some media poll. ?While it is a problem, it isn't new. ?It has gone on for decades... is it magnafied? Yep. ?Can it be fixed? ?I believe it can to an extent... but it never fully will because it will mean we all have to give up some liberties and freedoms in order to do so. ?To make a move in the right direction think of these points... 1st off start electing new politicians, quit putting the same old dolts in office. ?2nd, get involved in politics, write letters to your reps stating your sides on issues, demand that they give you a clear concise reponse... remember they work for you. ?3rd, educate yourself on current events and read all points of views... 4th off, when you are a parent, teach your kid the value of hard work and what it means to earn a living... hand down the morals and ethics of our grand parents... I think our society as a whole has slid a bunch even in my pultry 42 years on this planet....

Good Luck! ?(and let the mud slinging towards me begin)

Ken

[TK]

I agree with brandon and hick fisher

[Spinach]

Nice post Labs, if it wasn't so close to dinner time, I was gonna run upstairs and cook some popcorn to eat while reading your story.

[Brandon_Collins]

Labs i never said anything about legal immigrants i am talking about the ones without the green cards the illegal ones are wat i am talking about and you had a very nice post and i respect you a lot for all you rgood info but i have my opinion and still stand my ground on it.

Brandon

[labs4me]

I figured as such Brandon, but some of the posts came across as all inclusive...

By the way you have a nice looking boat for sale... I hope it's for sale so you can upgrade!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Brandon_Collins]

Its not mine i wish i could own it. It is my tech ed teachers he offered a good deal to me and hick but we cant come up with the money we r just poor high school kids.

Brandon

[jigglestick]

ken, you make good points and i thank you for chiming in on this.
as i stated, it is the illegals i am refering to.
nevermind the fact that we are becoming so culturaly diluted most of us don't even recognize the difference between ethnic sirnames.
at what rate do we want to allow the inflow of immigrants. do a comparison of people per square foot of american soil 80 years ago and now. then tell me how much longer we can carry on the same course.
the easier it is to stroll through the gates with open arms, the sooner that ratio will reach elbow room only capacity.
todays youth?
that's easy. get rid of the handouts and let good old fashioned hunger change their minds.
we are not short of able bodied americans to do physical labor. we are short of people with the power to say no to them.
give me a camp, and ten kids. any ten kids between 16 and 20 years of age.
give them no choice but to stay in my camp.
the ones who work will be rewarded with good food and nicer accomodations. the rest will get less to eat and live in a cardboard structure, fully aware of the ones who catch on and work to fullfill their needs.
that would be fun. as well as informative.
what it would tell us is our workforce has indeed been brought up in an entitlement environment. it would also tell us that put in a situation where we had to work to get by, we will gladly pick up the shovel or hammer or pitchfork or machette.

but like todays youth, we also want the easy way. it is far easier to hire illegals than to sift through the LEGAL american workforce for suitable employees.

if you hire illegals, knowingly then yes you should sit and pay your dues to society.

if you are skirting the rules, then you are skirting your moral obligation to this country.
if you are hiring people with legal documentation, then it should be no problem to verify their status with INS.
unless one did not care to do that.
there is more at stake here than proffit.

i don't have all the answers. i do know that this country is not healthy.
if you want to work here, live here, go to school here, then at least learn the damned language.

as for tk, bandon and hick... i say you put them on your sod crew.
 

[Mayfly]

My 2 cents....

I respect the hispanic/mexican/latino culture. I am fine with legal immigrants.......remember we are all here beause of immigration . I think that illegal is just that...illegal. The borders do need to be tightened!

As far as saying that the spanish language is BS? I think that is just ridiculous. Knowing any second language is a step ahead....

[JohnWester]

labs, can I buy the movie rights to your post? ???

[SoHawk]

I say this: ?
Let them march across the border, immediately renouce their former citizenship & swear an oath to the United States, then enlist in the military and give us 6 years of good service, then they have proven to us that they want to be Americans. ?:)

I have no problem with anyone here on a green card or work visa, but if they are here illegally they should be made to leave and apply through the regular channels. ?It's as simple as that to me. ?If we really need workers as some claim then we should expand the work visa program. ?I have my doubts, however, that we really need them. ?

big_fish_guy
Can I play labs in the Movie?? I'd love to drive that big truck!? And his wife is cute too!!!?

[Joe]

Friday, April 07, 2006
Limbaugh's Immigration Laws: Read to the end.


All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. Here they are. First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. We are not going to take unskilled workers. You will not be allowed. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote, I don't care how long they are here, nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't know have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.

In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property. These are the Limbaugh Laws. Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home. You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.

I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country. Yet Mexicans and others come here illegally, they protest in our streets, they get on our welfare program, and we have members of the United States Senate, both parties, doing handstands and back flips, going through every contortion possible to allow it to continue so that it doesn't make these people mad, resulting in votes against these linguini-spined populations. This is more than a double standard. It is an indication of just how gutless people in charge in this country are to protect the identity of this country. They don't care about border security, I know the ports deal notwithstanding, they're not doing a thing to shore up the border, because that might make somebody mad. It's a good thing there are a whole lot of Arab voters in this country or the port deal would have gone through, too.

[jigglestick]

yeah, but that's different ::)

[miller]

This is some very interesting reading.

[Benny]

How about the new American Anthem???
One version in English and a second in Spanish!!

Next they will want the Asian version, or the Russian to sing it as well.

Well if that's the case how about one from my ancestors who were here long before any of the immigrants came into this country, the Ojibwa language version?

Benny

[Spinach]

Here is the latest update on the walk out.

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/05/01/381678.html&cvqh=itn_boycott

[Mayfly]

Maybe it is just me and I didn't see the news but this whole things seems to be loosing steam in the media.

I guess i'll have to turn on the TV and see when I get off work.

[Lee Borgersen]

Subject: US Citizens Working in Mexico





 The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City.


 I spent five years working in Mexico.


 I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it
 for three more months.  After that you were working illegally. I was
 technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.


 During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure
 a
 permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport
 that
 I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the
 same except hers did not permit her to work.


 To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
 (not copies) of my:


 1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.


 2. Marriage certificate.


 3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.


 4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of
 graduation.





 5.  Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at
 least
 one year.


 6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest
 record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good
 standing."


 7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why
 there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were
 important
 to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth" letter. It

 was fun to write.


 All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish
 and
 be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It
 produced
 a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish
 on
 the right.


 Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied
 by
 a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being
 photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and

 we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax,
 labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their
 laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the
 government's
 actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand
 dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we
 could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in

 Loredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our
 goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.


 We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and
 under contract and compliance with Mexican law.


 We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing
 process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our
 headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment
 and
 the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and
 fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a
 six
 dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received
 instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give
 a
 policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it

 against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it
 you
 would have to pay ransom to get it back.


 We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number
 of
 our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for
 us
 and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages

 annually.


 The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying
 more fees.


 Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were
 leaving
 no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or
 liens) before our household goods were released to customs.


 It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went
 through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.


 The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep
 its
 citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White
 House
 or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States
 Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and
 during
 most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men
 standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy.
 These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large
 public
 park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause
 a
 protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.


 Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard
 on
 illegal immigrants.

[jigglestick]

thanks SMG, i think you just did  :)

[shakey legs 2]

I haven't been on this site for awhile but I want to say that Labs4me has made more sense on this issue than any politician from both sides of the aisle and even political commentators, including my favorite, O'reilly.  Labs, you should send this into the Mpls. Star and Sickle (with some $$$ modifications).  People who read that newspaper need to hear a good commons sense analysis for a change.