WHy oh WHY oh WHY ?????

[T.R. Michels]

Here is the hypothetical question; and some scientifcally proved facts. 
 
1. A guy makes a new camouflage, unlike any other camouflage made before. 
 
2. He claims it will absolutely keep deer and elk from seeing the hunter.   
 
3. He sells this camouflage to a major hunting catalog, and they have it in their catalog for 5 years, and sell a lot of it. 
 
4. The hunting catalog and the camouflage designer receive a lot of testimonials - about how this camouflage helped them kill lots of deer and elk. 
 
5. The camouflage contains UV brighteners in the dyes used to make the camouflage. 
 
6, A renowned vision scientist and a renowned deer researcher do a study to determine whether or not deer can see color, and they determine that deer can see blue and yellow, and UV light. 
 
7. An outdoor writer gets hold of this information - checks a lot of camouflages, including this new camouflage, to see if they contain UV brighteners in the dyes used to make them - and many of the camouflages, including the the new camouflage, do contain UV brighteners. 
 
8. The writer informs many of the magazine editors in the hunting industry that this camouflage can be seen by deer and elk, based on that fact that they can see UV light, which is reflectd off the UV dye in the camoufflage, which shows up as a bright white light to the deer. 
 
9. The editors do not publish anything about the UV dyes in camouflage, because they do not want to lose advertisig dollars from the camouflage companies. 
 
10. When a local newspaper writer writes a story about UV brighteners in camouflage, he explains that deer and elk can see this new camouflage, and therefore it does not work as well as the camouflage desinger claims.
 
11. Most of the hunters who bought the camouflage refuse to believe that deer can see in color; and they refuse to believe the new camouflage has UV brighteners in the dyes used to make it, 
 
12. The hunters who killed der and elk wearing the new camouflage insist that it is the best camouflage ever made, and they say they "know" that it prevents deer from seeing them. 
 
 
 
Why - when presented with the facts - do the hunters who used the camouflage - still insist that it does not contain UV dyes - and insist it is the best camouflage ever made?
 
I'd like to hear your ideas on this. 
 
 
May Yahweh-God bless you and yours,
 
T.R.   
 

[Grute Man]

This is just my opinion as a regular joe here.  Im no scientist nor have I ever created a camo design.  With that said, I truly think camo CAN be seen by any deer just like you and I CAN see it.  We COULD be fooled and that's what we're trying to do to the deer.  Fool the deer or at least be more hidden so they don't notice us.  Any camo will work as well as any other as long as it fits the scenery behind you.  For example snow camo wont work in Sept.  I think for many folks, camo is an immage thing.  They want to fit the immage of a hunter and if it all matches or is the newest...then they look like one of the best hunters.  Many many mannnny people killed many many mannny deer long before camo was even invented.  So is it worthless?  No way!  It helps tremendously and I use it to my advantage as well as anything else I can.  Can we really be "unseen" by deer or any other animal?  I doubt it.  Im "red green" color blind so some hues and shades blend and look exactly the same to me but I can stil see them.

If someone wants to keep wearing it, that's their choice.  We all have to focus on something.  For me, the focus is gettig the time to get up in that stand. 

This is just my personal opinion and Im no pro so take it for what its worth.

Grute

[T.R. Michels]

It is not about the camo, it is about why do hunters accept advertisng hype and possible unqualified testimony, and refuse to believe scientific evidence.

Now what say ye???

[jigglestick]

T.R.
this sound at the very least like a fishing expedition.

I'd say more likely you are gearing up for a lawsuit somewhere.

sounds like a more fitting topic would be applied to scent lock.

you have to understand that people (the majority) are like sheep.
they are followers, not doer's.
I am not trying to offend anybody here.
I just know that instead of being on the cutting edge, people tend to follow in the path of someone who is, or at least appears to be successful.
that is why endorsments by people who are in the public eye are so valuable to the product mfgr.

this type of thinking goes hand in hand with the question, if someone has scientific proof that one product can not perform as the mfgr claims it can,will they still buy it? as long as there can be created a shadow of doubt that it still might work, they will buy it.
as long as it instills confidense in the user, they will buy it and they may very well be more successful while using it, not because the product was functional as claimed by the mfgr, but rather because the more confident user became more successful.
that only fuels the belief and the following.

good luck to you.

[T.R. Michels]

I'm leading up to anything.

I was just wondering why ...

It makes no difference to me what the everyone's answers are, I was just curious.

T.R.

[Realtree]

I tend to agree with Jigglestick on this for the most part.

I think that in todays society, there is such a need by people to feel like they are a part of something good and to feel like they "fit in" that they tend to give in to peer pressure and the opinions and views of others who "appear" that they are in the know or are successful.

Everyone is searching for "something" and will latch onto what they think will fill that void for them, and don't think for a second that the manufacturers and the advertising gurus don't full well know this and exploit it at every opportunity that they can...in fact it's their job to do that.

You would hope that they would still maintain some level of trust, honesty and integrity in doing this, but I tend to believe otherwise in this area.

There's my two cents...

[GirlGuide]

It is not about the camo, it is about why do hunters accept advertisng hype and possible unqualified testimony, and refuse to believe scientific evidence.

Now what say ye???

It sounds to me like these companies are misleading hunters and are making a lot of money off of us by doing so...(just my opinion...)  When the camo is advertised to be sold, we see it, we think it looks and sounds great...we buy it...When the "scientific evidence" comes about..that is usally somewhere way down the line..and either we don't hear about it at all, or we feel it's too late to do anything about it.  I think a lot of it is absolutely false advertising and I for one am glad to see that some people are taking further steps and bringing lawsuits to these companies.  It seems like a lot of work to do that, so maybe that is another reason why nothing is ever done about it.  gg

[thunderpout]

Have you guys ever found yourselves starring at the rapala isle at your local mega-sporting goods store and pondered how fish can be so darned selective that we NEED to have 35 different color/patterns and sizes of a shad rap?!?!  Man, its a sellers market!  They make it ALL because we'll buy it, and we want to buy it/ use it before the other guys get it and get our fish/deer/whatever....Think about this...How many deer, elk, bision have been taken by a native american stalking them with a wolf skin belly-crawling,lookin like a wolf(not exactly camo, huh?) Or folks wearing bright red and later blaze orange?  If Cabelas still sold their first camo pattern, Mirage, and didnt push to sell us somthing different, would they still be in buisness?  Would the have opened a new store in Rogers?  I still have my 25yr old plus Mirage stuff, its pretty much lookin like olive drab, except for the patches....but guess what?  I still had to get some Mossy Oak X-tra bottom land Supreme...to give me an edge for Turkey Hunting,  because I know that a Tom sees a million times better than a human, and that will make me dissapear, and if Im invisible, tom aint gonna see me!  I wont even have to worry about not moving/figiting around or making noise!  Any one ever read the fable/story about the emperor and his new clothes?!!! :ROTFLMAO: ::hittingself::  -thunderpout 8)

[tripnchip]

We are suckers for the hype in products and feel it gives a edge there for more confidence I guess. Besides who wants to admit they were suckered.lol
 

[tattguy12]

90% of all my camo clothing has been purchased at thrift stores or ragstock"cheaper the better" It has never hampered my luck and I save a ton of money. To me "in my opinion" The guys who spend a buttload on the newest camo seem to spend more time in the bar than in the field..Remember that just my 2 dollars worth..


                         Kevin party3.gif

[EagleEyeJack]

Have you ever heard of the old saying..."Don't confuse me with the facts"?

I think that a lot of people have their mind set on something and will argue till they are blue in the face even when they are presented with overwhelming facts showing them in error.


T.R., Is the UV problem a Dawn & Dusk issue or an all day long issue?

[GuideGirlsMom]

Are we not forgetting if we are up wind or down wind when you are out in the woods---Those deer are pretty Smart!!!! Also maybe a little Luck goes a long way!!! Remember all the red a few years back... GGM

[LLtaxidermy]

most people are sheep. They want something to believe or follow. If you can sell them on something they will for the most part be loyal to that product. even if there might be something equal or better. Why is Matthews or Bowtech preferred? Ford or Chevy? They'll all do their jobs and well but some people refuse to try anything different. Scared? Wouldn't you be mad if you spent a bunch of money to find out it wasn't the best?

[Super Star!]

I think that if you have the best or better equipment, you put your self at a advantage over a hunter who has normal old out dated stuff. Bows are way more advanced than than say a bow maid in 1982.  Scent blocker camo, i was never sold on it till i started using ground blinds now i wont wear anything but scent blocker. Its all in what you want..


just think of this you have a 20 dollar Diawa rod and a 400 dollar G loomis witch one are you goin to use on a day when the fish are biteing lite...??

[LLtaxidermy]

I gotta go with the 20 dollar rod. Reason being when the bite is real lite and I miss a bunch of fish i'll feel a lot better knowing the rod I busted over my knee was only 20 bucks!!!

[Fiasco]

I try to go with the best research backed info and I don't mean "research" done by the company trying to sell you the limbsaver for your rifle barrel (dumbest product ever). I'm talking about independent research. Usually, you can find good wildlife research that has nothing to do with hunting and apply it to what you are trying in the field. The gun and hunting mags are good for basic information but they tend to overhype and give glowing reviews to everything they get their mitts on. It's tough to get an unbiased report online too because no one wants to feel poorly about a purchase.

To the original scenario, perhaps the guy that bought the camo and is sold on it, washed it in a UV killing detergent and has had great success. Regarding the manufacturer of the supposedly deer day glow clothing, who cares what they say? I'm all for exposing bogus claims but we also need to be able to move on. They'll get theirs, kind of like scent lok is coming under scrutiny. If their claims are accurate, it will be made apparent. In the meantime, I don't buy any scent lok clothing but I use scent killer detergents, sprays, and cover scents. If independent information verifies that it is effective, we can all look at it and make our own determination.