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Author Topic: ROAD DITCH BALERS  (Read 9299 times)

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Offline rem

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MINNESOTA TOP PHEASANT PREDITER ( I HOPE YOU MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO PUT IN SOME CRP)ANYONE ELSE AGREE

Offline CampYJewel

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I don't get what you are trying to say or ask. 

That people who bale the road ditches kill off to many pheasants??  What about all the cars and lives that are saved when people can actually see a deer in stead of it hiding in the grass and then jumping out at you????  Or maybe all the hay they get from it, that feeds the cows that you enjoy on your gril all summer long????

If they kill the pheasants have you given any thought to how many fawns end up going through haybines???  Every farmer I know has gotten at least one  :cry:  Its just what happends.

Jewel

Offline dakids

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I don't agree.  Shunks, coon, mink, fox, and hawks kill and eat more birds than get killed in the road ditches.  Don't bite the hand that feeds you.  Steaks, milk, cheese, and permision to hunt in the fall.

Just my 2 cents from a former farm kid.
Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline HD

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When I cut my hay, I always look in front of the haybine for movement in the grass.
I can honestly say that I have not ran a pheasant through my machine.....maybe a bunny or 2, but not a pheasant. We even (the kids and myself) walk the ditches first, to make sure there are no nesting birds, or chicks, and same goes for the main hay field.



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Offline Mayfly

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The problem is when the ditches are mowed earlier in the year when there are still nests on the ground. That is one of the pheasant chicks worst predators.


Offline Mayfly

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Roadside Revival

Bird hunters may see more pheasants in the field in the near future, due to the resurrection of a DNR program that will add more nesting cover acreage in Minnesota.
By Jason Abraham

From behind a car windshield, Minnesota's roadsides might look like little more than long ribbons of unremarkable grass. But left undisturbed, these grasslands amount to critical habitat for pheasants, meadowlarks, and other ground-nesting birds. And the importance of roadside habitat is on the rise as permanent grasslands disappear or become fragmented by development and agriculture.

That's why the Department of Natural Resources, through new funding from the state Legislature, has revived the Roadsides for Wildlife program. Today the DNR is again collaborating with the Department of Transportation to promote the benefits of roadsides.

Prime Nesting Cover
In the pheasant range, which extends from southern to northwestern Minnesota, roadside grasslands add up to more than 500,000 acres—all of which can be considered important pheasant habitat, said Matt Holland, Minnesota director of conservation for Pheasants Forever.

"Wherever we can get good quality nesting cover that is undisturbed, we can improve the landscape for pheasants," said Holland.

Holland said Pheasants Forever has partnered with the DNR and DOT to identify those roadsides where preservation can have the greatest benefit to local pheasant populations. Many of these roadsides are near wildlife management areas.

"Roadside grasslands can act as important satellite habitats near WMAs," said Holland. "Many WMAs in the pheasant range serve as core wintering areas for pheasants. The potential is there to increase local pheasant production if roadsides adjacent to these WMAs are managed as nesting cover."

In other words, stopping the mowing of roadsides from April through August—when pheasants nest—could result in more pheasants for hunters on nearby WMAs in the fall.

Reaching Out To Landowners
Most roadside acreage belongs to the adjacent landowner, who grants an easement to state, county, or township road authorities to build and maintain a road and right of way.

Helping these landowners improve roadside habitat is the job of Tom Keefe, a longtime DNR employee who was named Roadsides for Wildlife program coordinator this past October.

"We intend to use a variety of tools to improve habitat," said Keefe. "They include cost-sharing grants for landowners, training for roadside managers, and simply reaching out to those who have an interest in conservation and reducing the costs of annual roadside maintenance."

Mowing ditches before the end of nesting season is one of the most preventable detriments to ground-nesting birds and mammals, Keefe said. State law restricts public road authorities from mowing roadsides until after Aug. 1, except to address safety concerns or to control noxious weeds. But private landowners may mow their roadsides anytime. That's why public education and outreach is so important.

"It's safe to say that thousands of bird nests are destroyed each year because landowners mow ditches while birds are nesting," Keefe said. "That loss could be minimized if landowners would delay or forgo mowing their ditches."
Landowners sometimes mow to create a manicured, lawnlike look in their ditches or to make hay. Delaying any mowing until after Aug. 1 gives most bird and mammal species time to nest successfully. And leaving 10 to 12 inches of standing grasses when mowing after Sept. 1 will provide vital cover for the following year's early nesting birds.

Multiple Benefits
In addition to pheasant habitat, roadside grasslands also benefit mourning doves, bobolinks, meadowlarks, and dozens of other wildlife species. Researchers in the Midwest have found more than 40 kinds of birds and mammals nesting on the ground or in low vegetation on roadsides.

Roadside grasslands can also provide a summer showcase in bloom—and effectively retain and filter runoff water from rain—when they are planted with native grasses and wildflowers. The Roadsides for Wildlife program is encouraging road authorities to use native grasses and plants in roadside seeding projects. With their extensive root systems, native plant species improve water filtration, reduce the need for long-term weed control, and anchor soil more effectively than non-native grass species.

"While the DNR's 1,382 wildlife management areas are first priority for wildlife funding, it is encouraging to see renewed interest in capturing the potential of roadside habitats for small game birds and other wildlife," Keefe said. "This is an area where we can have significant progress."

According to Holland of Pheasants Forever, the renewed roadsides habitat program could spur much greater momentum for overall conservation.

"The Roadsides for Wildlife program will help us take advantage of the good opportunities we're currently missing for grasslands wildlife," he said. "In the farmland region, there's a great need for more undisturbed, quality habitat for grasslands wildlife. This program isn't the entire answer, but it certainly has the potential to be a big step towards where we need to go."

For more information and to apply for a Roadsides for Wildlife grant, visit www.dnr.state.mn.us/roadsidesforwildlife or call 651-259-5014. Private-land owners participating in the program are eligible for a free Roadsides for Wildlife sign on their property to identify roadsides being managed as wildlife cover.

Jason Abraham is a DNR staff writer.

Offline Joe

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Amen Tim. That and lets rip up all the drain tile and bring back all the natural habitat. Our bird hunting, waterfowl included, suffers from draining all the water from the southwest part of the state. I know, I know, farming is important, but there has to be some middle ground.

Has anybody ever looked at an aerial view of the Minnesota/South Dakota border? Eastern South Dakota is what our state looked like at one time. Sloughs and potholes dotted the landscape. Perfect habitat for waterfowl and upland birds. Leaving the ditches unmowed seems like a feeble attempt at best, but at least it's an attempt. 
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Offline rem

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Lets cut them early maybe we can get 2 cuts!!! And then haul it to the sale barns and sell each round bale for 75 bucks is that money the hand that feeds me (whats a couple weeks to wait the cows should be out to pasture now anyways)

Offline dakids

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I have cut a lot of ditchbanks and have only hit one nest.  I have also cut seversl 1,000 acres of alfalfa fields and have hit 100's of nests.  We stop and pick up the unbroken eggs and hatch them out. WE don't hunt birds.  We do get asked to let hunters hunt in the fall. I do feel that my hand is getting bitten, we might not let anyone hunt the birds that we have hatched out.
 
Yes, rem, the cows are out in the pasture at this time of year. The farmers are simple saving the hay until the winter when grass does not grow. Are you sugesting that the farmers should wait until sept. to cut hay?  The alfalfa  looses a lot of its nutrition after they flower.  It also becomes harder and woody which make it less palitable for the cows. 
Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline Mayfly

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I have cut a lot of ditchbanks and have only hit one nest.

So do you think all these roadside efforts are a waste of time for pheasants forever and the DNR?

These ditches that run along dirt roads in pheasant country are not being cut for hay. From what I see they are just cut and left as is. Or am I wrong? I am not a farmer so I guess I do not know the answer for sure.

And when you speak about biting the hand that feeds you....

Look at Marshall, Mn. The Pheasant season is a huge deal for that community. For the first couple weekedends, good luck getting a hotel room that you didn't reserve 2-3 months in advance. All us hunters need to eat and we all need extra supplies when we are in town. All the cafes, wal-mart, sport stores, hotels and gas stations see a huge increase those weekends. If that wasn't the case why would the Marshal Buruea of Tourism waste so much money on Advertising. They constantly run ads in the Outdoor News and the Outdoors Weekly and many other avenues to get more hunters in the area. You can look at it many ways.

I guess the best way to incresae habitat is the crp programs. That is proven to work and increase wma's if possible. I won't mention any counties here but there are a few in Mn that have lots of crp and wma's and that is where all our birds are. You go to other counties that have nice clean mowed ditches and corn rows right up to the road in some spots and you don't see birds there and it is too bad because it always wasn't like that.

Offline dakids

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From my experiance, Yes. Spend wisely, crp provides better nesting.
A farmer will not cut the ditches and just leave the hay to waste.  The grass that you speak about is done by the townships, counties and state.

The farmer does not get the money from the hotels or stores.  Don't bash farmers for trying to make a living and providing for there families.

 

Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline Mayfly

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The farmer does not get the money from the hotels or stores.  Don't bash farmers for trying to make a living and providing for there families.

No...But the farmers kid or his brother might need a job and with businesses doing good and money in the economy they may have a good chance of getting a job at the local gas station or the diner. Then the farmers kid can buy his own car when he is 17 or 18 rather than the farmer having to sell x amount of bushels of corn to support the kids that want to buy nice things like all their buddies at school.

Offline dakids

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Good point.
Try and get access to the farmers land wearing a t-shirt that says "people that cut ditches are idiots"
Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline Mayfly

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Try and get access to the farmers land wearing a t-shirt that says "people that cut ditches are idiots"

I see the farmers side of this as well and I agree. I also see the other side as well.

I do not think that this much weight should be put on ditches though. Like I mentioned above the real programs that are going to benefit both sides and the real solution should be through crp.

Would you rather have a giant field of crp or a nice ditch. Easy answer.

Take a look at this picture. I have started out the season here 2007 and 2006 and we saw and killed more birds than I ever have in Minnesota....

hard to tell in these pictures but the ditches are cut all around the crp field. I think the purpose for this is so that hunters do not hunt these ditches and then think they can jump in the field just a little but....If you understand what i'm saying.

But yeah.....tons and tone of birds here! Thanks to CRP! ;D





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Offline Mayfly

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And....is it really healthy for me and my family to start thinking about pheasant season already??  ;D ;D

Marshall Brown where are you??

Offline dakids

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Just got back from my parents home. They live 15 miles away. I took gravel roads both ways.  I did see a few spots were the farmers had cut and bailed the ditches.  I also noticed that the rest of the way (90%) had been cut buy the townships or county. I know this because I saw 2 different tractors that were owned and operated by townships. 

The farmers are getting a bad rap. 
Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline rem

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If you plant a field to harvest or bale thats fine. Its the guy with no cattle just cutting them to sell and the guy that has no land to plant grass and his main source of bales comes from road ditchs. He has alot or over head expence HA Dakids why cant they wait till aug 1st (Greedy) 

Offline TNT

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rem rem rem,
If you can not even spell "PREDATOR'', what makes you think you have the right to criticize the way some one does business.

Offline Cody Gruchow

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guys i dont want this to start a big fight in here

Offline ChrisWallace

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MINNESOTA TOP PHEASANT PREDITER ( I HOPE YOU MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO PUT IN SOME CRP)ANYONE ELSE AGREE

How many ditch parrots actually get killed? If its that big of a deal, wouldnt you think the dnr would have stepped in already more than just having a retired guy make contact? Maybe you can contact your legislature, or dnr. Better yet, join pheasants forever and head up a group to lobby and work on the problem, rather than vent on a website that will have zero effect on if you pepper an extra meal of breasts and gravy or not this year, get off the keyboard and do something...

Second, I come from a farm family, and I certainly would not want the life of my uncles and cousins up in New York Mills. They bust their asses for what they have. I wish I had the work ethic and determination they do to get crap done. The mom and dad both work a second job to keep the farm and the family going.

Third, get your prices right, we just bought 300 square bales for 1300 bucks, I guarantee you will not get a round bale for 75 bucks...but who knows, I have never met anyone who worked at a "sale barn" and I have never met a "preditator" hunter either.
 
Do not throw around greed, and associate farmers with them.


But hey Im sure you have no problem when they whack a yote out of the tractor, clean out some raccoons, or skunks, that you dont ever hear about. Or when they intentionally leave some crops and buffers out for wintering.

The last thing I wanted to ask you, is what exactly are you doing to help this problem? Are you out in the off season, talking to farmers who cut the ditches, trying to explain your point on how a "$75" roundbale is worth saving a couple of birds? Are you maintaining the relationships with landowners you hunt on, or are you just friends with them come fall? Are you an active member of PF or do you just give em 25 bucks and read the magazine?

So why does this bother you? My guess is it because YOU want to kill a few more birds this fall. Meaning these birds that might be saved will flush so YOU can kill them. More birds in the bag...sounds kinda greedy dont it? What does the farmer benefit from one more bird for you? They have every legal right to as such.

Dont get me wrong, being greedy isnt a bad thing. Im greedy and selfish about my ducks and geese. Im placing hen houses, woodduck boxes, predator hunting every chance I have, taking out skunks, cats and other egg snatching sobs. I bust my ass every year doing this.

So rather than bitch and complain on a god damn website, with a post thats a one liner, and hard to digest. Look at a problem with the pros and cons of the situation and make a viable debate based on such...

Offline dakids

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Well said Chris.  I couldn't have said it better.
Anything that is free is worth saving up for.

Offline JohnWester

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welcome input Chris, good job. nice post.
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Offline rem

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If you knew how much crp I have and the work i put in around the area you might feel different still no answer to why cant we wait till aug 1 for road ditches

Offline Mayfly

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still no answer to why cant we wait till aug 1 for road ditches

Thats a fair question. Anyone?


Offline HD

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From my stand point, as a farmer, the nutritional value of the grass for the cattle decreases the longer it stands because of the natural seeding out effect.

As for the county or townships cutting of the ditches, I see no reason why they can't wait.

And, like I said before, I check the ditches and even my main hay field before I cut and bail.


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Offline ChrisWallace

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If you knew how much crp I have and the work i put in around the area you might feel different still no answer to why cant we wait till aug 1 for road ditches

Your right, we dont know! Again going back to the pros and cons of what your doing to help the pheasant population should have been stated. Hells bells you got crp and your managing your land as such, I give you two kudos for that.

Your first post comes across as I want to kill more birds and these farmers arent letting me do that because they want to chop their land. To feed their cows, which essentially is the basis of their income, from milk, which is worth nothing right now, but yet it keeps going up in stores. To beef, youngstock.

And yes you typically get two cuts on a good year, sometimes three if your real lucky.

As far as waiting till August 1, they simply dont have to. They have the legal right to cut it whenever they like and do whatever they so choose to do as long as its within the easment laws they have between the county or state or city for the maintaining of that road.

Maybe this is something that Pheasants Forever needs to look into, possibly buying up the ditch land from owners.


Offline Joe

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I don't understand how the desire to save or improve habitat translates into "wanting to kill more birds"
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Offline Dotch

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I'm not even gonna go there when it comes to trying figure out what rem's intent is in some of these posts. However, being a farmer/agronomist/soil scientist/member of the Olympic nap squad, would agree with Hunterdown that the quality of the forage as it ages becomes lower as the lignin content increases, making the product less palatable and digestible. I too have CRP, CREP to be exact and while it isn't a large acreage, it contains a restored wetland and is managed as intensively as time allows. I do not mow road ditches myself but I also don't condemn those who do. The neighbors have stock cows and like Chris said, it is their right. They pay property taxes to the center of the road just like I do. Far be it from me to tell them how they should run their property or farm operation. I like those people; they do favors for me and I try to return those favors. A lot more pheasants in our CRP and that of others in the area anyway. And there are issues with pheasants and nests being destroyed in hay fields, more than some would imagine. I used to buy hay from a customer who had wonderful, large fields of straight alfalfa, often several hundred acres in size. It was harvested on an accelerated cutting schedule, sometimes getting as many as 5 cuttings a year. Pheasants are attracted like a magnet to areas like those. Frequently over the course of the winter when feeding the hay, I would encounter hen pheasants that had been baled up that summer. I am not a big fan of the DNR and others touting road ditch habitat as any kind of holy grail for pheasants and other nesting birds, quite the contrary, particularly along black tops with fast moving traffic. It's a little like telling your kid to go play in the street. Wanna improve road ditch habitat off in the toolies somewhere on the less traveled gravel roads? Fine, but the money might be better spent on WMA's or incentives to try to attract larger core acres. It doesn't take much of a predator to figure out that one's odds of successfully locating prey in a narrow strip along a paved road vs. a large block area are greatly increased.

I highly doubt that a PF program to buy road ditches would fly. Loss of ownership and control is a big deal to rural landowners. Working with hundreds of them over the years and being one myself, I think I'm qualified to say that. The issue of people deciding to see how far they could push it to accidentally on purpose get onto adjacent private land from the road ditch would still be a problem. However, if PF were to lease the road ditches, enhance the habitat, include a no-haying or grazing clause in the contract, share cost on fencing it perhaps in some instances, and pay fair dollar there could be some takers in areas. In general, there is no reason townships can't wait until Aug. 1 to mow although there are circumstances where there are safety issues. Am glad though the county mows a swath along the road to help one see when tall grass, sweetclover, brush, etc., obstruct one's vision or there would be a lot more accidents. Last year the ditch to the north was full of sweetclover which was not mowed and probably should have been. Lucky the snowfall was on the light side or it could have been a snow removal nightmare.
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Offline deadeye

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This weeks Minnesota Outdoor News has a good article on ditch cutting and bailing.  And, yes, they do mention some rules regarding when it can be cut.   Also, the big thing driving cutting this year seems to be the hay cost.  Last year $55 and this year $100 per large bale.  I think I'm letting my go too cheap.  The guy cutting it pays $5 per bale.  I think he is getting a deal. :toast:
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Offline ChrisWallace

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I don't understand how the desire to save or improve habitat translates into "wanting to kill more birds"

well he already said, killing birds due to cutting ditches is bad and wrong, so by saving the cutting, that makes habitat better, which in turn makes more birds to potentially flush and provided you hit what your aiming at, more birds in bag. If you build it, they will come....