Legality of hunting on private shoreline, what is legal?

[jjawz]

I've tried searching the net and dnr website to no avail. Do Minnesota lakes have easements where you can hunt shoreline on private land? Or can i sit in my boat (or stand in the water) just off shore and still be legal? Thanks guys!

[HD]

I used to hunt ducks on Pickerel lake in Anoka county.
Most of that lake is private owned lake shore.
I had a DNR officer tool out to where I was set up, and he told me that the boat had to be floating in order for me to be legal to hunt there.
I asked him about standing in the water, he said that, that would get me a ticket.

Now this has been a few years since I hunted there last, but I don't think the rules have changed.


Hunter

[JohnWester]

hunter down is right... as long as you have some sort of public access to the lake, you can hunt anywhere on it... as long as you don't come in contact with the private shoreline, or stand on the lake bottom.  Keep in mind there has to be some natural cover, you can't just have a floating boat with a blind built on it, there must be some natural concealment. In my opinion, that would be a single bullrush, but thats just me.  they don't define in the law what percentage needs to be natural cover, it just says you need some.  1 is some. 
also, keep in mind the distance to a house or structure.  There is something that specifies how close to a building you can be too, but I don't recall what that is.  And try not to shoot towards their house either.  but other then that, you should be legal.

[Auggie]

I think it is 500 feet from any structure or livestock. Some one correct me if I am wrong.

[jjawz]

Thanks for the responses guys, i really appreciate it. What strikes me as odd is that i can get on a lake through a public landing, but i cannot stand in the water in front of private property? To me that seems a little rediculous.

[deadeye]

Quite frequently the property boundary extends well beyound the shore line.  In that case I believe the propery owner owns the land under the water but not the water so if you can float in it, you could be inchs from the shore and be ok.

[swamprat]

I'm sorry, but I don't read the regulations that way.  Someone should ask a DNR agent how they would interpret this, but the regulation handbook says this: "Recreational use includes boating, swimming, fishing, hunting, trapping, and similar activities. It includes walking in the water in
connection with such activities regardless of who owns the land beneath the surface of the water."
It goes on to say "A stream or lake is open to recreational use over its entire surface if it is capable of recreational use and if it is lawfully accessible. Any water that will float a canoe is capable of recreational use, but other waters may also qualify depending upon the circumstances."
To me that means you can stand in the water as long as you don't cross private property without permission to get there.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please, but I've been hunting adjacent to private property for twenty years and stand in the water quite often and I have never had anyone question me or challenge my right to do so.

[Randy Kaar]

if there is no public access to the lake, you would have to
trespass to get there. unless you had permission from a
property owner. walking and floating a canoe is where the
law is a little confusing.. a landowner owns the land under
the water is the way it has been, unless they changed that.

randy

[swamprat]

I wish I knew a lawyer who was an expert on property rights, because I don't think it has ever been the case that you can own the land under the water unless you own the entire lake shore.  Even then, I don't think you can disturb the lake bottom without special permits from the DNR.

[Bobby Bass]

I have never heard of any law that says you own the land under the water. For as long as I can remember the law was that on the shoreline that the owner only owns the land to the high water mark..

here is a great answer to your question. http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/waters/Pardon_Me_Myth.pdf

Learn something everyday.. I just did

[The General]

bobby i read that but it still isn't real clear.  When the bed is dry keep off.....I understand that.  So when it isn't dry can you walk in it and be ok?

[Bobby Bass]

bobby i read that but it still isn't real clear.  When the bed is dry keep off.....I understand that.  So when it isn't dry can you walk in it and be ok?

looks to me that if it is wet you can float a boat on it. Still looking to see if I can find something in regards to walking a shoreline or hunting from it.

[Benny]

I have been hunting in and around the metro area since 1984, have been in contact with many CO,s over that time frame and I can all but garranty you will get a ticket if you walk a shore line while hunting.
You have to be in a watercraft and floating on it's own free will, and you have to have some natural cover around you as well to shoot at non wounded waterfowl.

Your watercraft must be able to float over the lake,stream bead with out you having to get out of it to move it along.

We hunted a lake out by St Bonni called Oxe Yoke, one year we got there to find the creek had been dammed up by the land owners association in an attempt to keep us out.

We had just enough water to float a canoe down it but not our 12 foot v bottom.

We went out and set up started hunting,about an hour after our first shots we saw a land owner and a CO coming down to the shore behind us.

We had to show the CO that we floated all the way in with out getting out to move the canoe along.

He said we were legal so long as we could float in to the main lake with out getting out to push it.

We also could not walk down the old RR track bed and enter the creek there because the land on either side was private owned.

We had to enter by the road way and float in from there.

I know it still isn't a letter from a CO to prove this to you , but I know you will be sorry if you walk in the water for hunting.

I think the laws might be different for fishing, but I doubt it.

Benny

[Mayfly]

Although it is a good topic of conversation I do not reccomend that you get your regulations from a public outdoors message board. I would go straight to the source and give the DNR a call if you have any concerns or questions. I have called them many times and always have recieved great service over the phone.

(651) 296-6157
(888) 646-6367

[GRIZ]

I'm sorry, but I don't read the regulations that way.  Someone should ask a DNR agent how they would interpret this, but the regulation handbook says this: "Recreational use includes boating, swimming, fishing, hunting, trapping, and similar activities. It includes walking in the water in
connection with such activities regardless of who owns the land beneath the surface of the water."
It goes on to say "A stream or lake is open to recreational use over its entire surface if it is capable of recreational use and if it is lawfully accessible. Any water that will float a canoe is capable of recreational use, but other waters may also qualify depending upon the circumstances."
To me that means you can stand in the water as long as you don't cross private property without permission to get there.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please, but I've been hunting adjacent to private property for twenty years and stand in the water quite often and I have never had anyone question me or challenge my right to do so.

rat your right in your interpretation. Having made my living trappin before I ran into many instances. They have trheatened to shoot me, steal my traps but most threatened me to call the CO. I told them to go ahead and call after explaining the law to them, that I know of none did.

[ChrisWallace]

if there is no public access to the lake, you would have to
trespass to get there. unless you had permission from a
property owner. walking and floating a canoe is where the
law is a little confusing.. a landowner owns the land under
the water is the way it has been, unless they changed that.

randy

airplane? helicopter??

[GRIZ]

if there is no public access to the lake, you would have to
trespass to get there. unless you had permission from a
property owner. walking and floating a canoe is where the
law is a little confusing.. a landowner owns the land under
the water is the way it has been, unless they changed that.

randy

airplane? helicopter??

Most states have laws regarding hunting and aircraft, don't know why MN would be any different. Then again I've never read any.

[deadeye]

Just to verify it myself, i checked the plat maps and tax records of property around a local lake.  The 95 acre lake is not large but is a good hunting and fishing body of water.  There is no public access on the lake.  The plat maps clearly show the property lines extending beyound the "high water" marks and all the way to the center of the lake.  Some extend beyound 300 yards.  The tax records show the land under the water as deeded to and included with the shore (high ground) property.   This bears out what the document posted by Bobby Bass stated.

[22lex]

Call a DNR officer and have him give you the correct laws about the area you want to hunt/fish so there isn't a disagreement by a potential "land under-water owner".

Otherwise I would suggest finding state, federal, county owned, or tax-forfieted land so there is no question.

Down here in southern MN we have had this arguement go back and forth for years on who owns the land underneath the trout streams, and if you can navigate them by canoe, or if there is a buffer zone from the edge of the water (like ten feet or something). I have never gotten a straight answer from a CO about these rules because they seem to be ever-changing and they don't want to tell you the incorrect information. Then there is the question of the major river that runs through our area called the Root River. I have been told by CO's that you can navigate the river with a canoe, and get out and walk in the river with no problem. About ten years ago I got scolded from a farmer that I was trespassing, and told to get out of his river which I did 'cause I didn't want an arguement.

[GRIZ]

Why are you guys trying to figure out who owns the land underneath the water?

It don't matter. In bobbys post it states "regardless of who owns the land beneath the surface of the water."

Sorry it was swamprats post not bobbys.

[cwb]

I have been researching this question for a while and wanted to summarize a few points

1) The MN DNR have failed to provide many rules and regulations in a clear consice manner in one easily accessible location. They could easily do this but they choose not to.

2) Laws for trout fishing are different than laws for hunting.

3) For trout fishing you don't even have to be able to float a boat when you are standing in the water. You just have to be able to float a boat in highest water the stream sees. (During spring flooding, if you can float a boat, then you can walk in it during trout season.) This does not apply to hunting/trapping activities.

4) High water mark is a myth for both trout fishing and hunting. You have to have your feet wet. You cannot walk the land up to the high water mark.

5) Laws have changed alot over the last 5-10 years. Even if I've done something for 40 years and not been questioned or ticketed, this does make it legal for me to do it today.

6) Land under water depends on the area.

7) Laws usually get tougher in an area where private owners are not respected.

[sdiver]

What detirmines whether or not you can stand on the bottom or not depends on who owns the bottom. I was told by my CO that since the farmer I lease from owns ths lake bottom and pays taxes on it the party I was having trouble with could hunt as long as they could float a boat but couldn't use the bottom to anchor their boat or decoys. It all boils down to meandered or non meadered land There are several court cases on this and i"ve yet to find the ultimate authority on the issue. I would be careful wuth private property. You wouldn't want the land owner standing ten feet behind you on land hunting.

[MnMoose]

If the land owner has a property line that crosses the water and or it is land locked they own the land under neath the water however they do not own the water....You bring up a very touchy subject my friend

[DUCKMAN]

I was hunting lake Geneva, north of Albert Lea last year and we asked a C.O. about what was legal to hunt. The water was very low. He told us the normal waterline was the boundary and we could walk in to where we wanted to hunt from the public road but he did not want us to drive along it. we sat in the weeds along the edge of the water. Of course common courtesy and safety require we respect buildings and pastures, and stay a legal distance or farther away.   

[cwb]

Here's great online publication from the MN DNR website on private shore line.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/waters/Pardon_Me_Myth.pdf

It is 2 pages long but here' s a few quotes from this publication:

"In fact, many Minnesotans have collectively assembled this knowledge and created their own water law mythology. One of the best- known myths holds that the State owns a definable strip of land (commonly accepted to be 10 feet wide) around every lake and along every stream.
Another mythical law says that the State owns all the land under all of the lakes. Consequently,
when a lake level drops, the exposed bed is public land available for use by anyone. Pardon me
myth, but these things just aren’t true!"

"Consequently, whoever owns the shoreline also owns the land under the water. While a
boater may run watercraft over the entire surface of the water body, when the bed is dry…keep
off."


There is more interesting information at

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/waters/watermgmt_section/pwpermits/waterlaws.html

Here's another quote

"Trespassing on private property
The belief that the state owns a strip of land around all Minnesota lakes for public use is absolutely false. Riparian property (property abutting a lake, river, or wetland) is either privately or publicly owned. The general public can access water bodies or watercourses via public property, but not through private property. Individuals entering private property without permission from the landowner are trespassing and may be prosecuted under the state trespass laws. It is illegal to trespass on private property in order to gain access to a water body or watercourse without first obtaining the verbal or written permission from a landowner."

I saw other concerns on this post about anchoring a boat or even decoys off shoreline. According to this site, on "Navigable Waters" as defined by the Feds, the normal low level mark is state owned. So anchoring up to the normal low level mark on these lakes should be fine. (the confusing part is what is defined as low level?? This is where a CO should be consulted)

Here's a quote on this.

"When a water basin or watercourse is "navigable" under the federal test, the State of Minnesota owns the bed below the natural ordinary low water level "

Also this quote is of interest.

"If a court has found that a lake is non-navigable and meandered, the shoreland owners own the bed of a lake in severalty (see: Schmidt v. Marschel., 211 Minn 543, NW 2d 121 [1942]). If a stream is non-navigable but has been meandered, the shoreland owners own to the thread (centerline) of the stream. If a lake or stream is non-navigable and not meandered, ownership of the bed is as indicated on individual property deeds."

My take is most decent sized lakes are classified navigable and the rules are known if you understand where the "normal low level" of the water is. Smaller lakes, streams etc are more complicated.

[GRIZ]

How many who have replied to this have spent any money on lawyer or court fees finding their information out?

I have spent more than a few thousand and what I've found out is who owns the bottom don't matter. There are 7 exceptions to this in the state, one of which involves a state highway that has no right to be there in the first place. I found this out the expensive way.

[Randy Kaar]

care to share more info Griz?

randy

[GRIZ]

Well it goes back to some law way back when. How far back I don't know but I think it was around the depression era. It was explained to me that it was meant to save some money for struggling land owners. The land owners at the time had the option of denying this break. To do this they simply had to go into the county seat and file some paper work. Seven people statewide did this, those are the seven exceptions.

As far as the road not being there legally is a bit of a different matter but it's what got me involved in this mess. The road had no right to be there thus there was no road right of way to access this pond.  I even asked the judge so if the land owner decided to take a dozer thru the road he couldn't be stopped. He said their are several laws that would preside over that and he would be stopped. Also said that if he did no charges could be filed against him. As it turned out even if it was a legal road this pond was one of the seven exceptions.

Anyhow everything was dropped and I was told just stay out of there.

Another thing that I thought of was in the situation of a man made private lake. Being that it prolly wasn't there when this law was passed it might fall into catagory with the seven exceptions.

now for my take on it

There really is so much grey area with all of this and there are other laws that come into play as well that it's hard to figure out. Hunting ducks on a pond and shooting them over the water is legal. If they are flying over dry land when you fire at them then that is illegal. Why because you are not allowed to shoot over or across property lines. Now this is confusing as the land owner may or may not own the land underneath the water. The difference is where the water ends and the land starts is basically considered a property line. It makes no difference if the body of water is a creek a foot wide and an inch deep or thousands of acres of open water. With seven exceptions statewide.

[Randy Kaar]

thats interesting, thanks Griz!


randy

[USMC03]

Persay you are hunting legally (the stream or river is navigable, you didn't get out to push your craft to your hunting spot, you aren't firing over some one elses property, and you entered through a public access) and you shoot a duck that falls into the water but have no dog to retrieve it and you WALK out to where the bird is. I know the law states that you have to give a reasonable effort to retrieve a down animal. Does that mean you are good to go and retrieve the animal or are you obligated or out of respect to ask the surrounding property owners to "walk on their land which is indeed underwater"?
Thanks,
Chris