Wolves?

[Go Big Red!]

Are wolves becoming an issue where you hunt?

Here's the situation:

For MN gun deer, I hunt the Cloverdale area and we have wolf issues.  Everything from tracks, droppings, killing a local farmers dairy herd, etc.  This was featured in the Star Tribune newspaper a few years ago if you recall.  The USFW (the Feds) culled 15 from the farmers land and immediate area, eliminating "2 packs".  Now we have tracks again.  Not singles, but 3-4 separate tracks together. Deer are now none exsistent.

For WI gun deer, I hunt the Hurley area and now we have wolves.  In talking with a local resident and her brother, their family farm is being hit.  They have also 14 documented trail cam pictures of the same wolf carrying 14 different fawns to a den.  Deer #'s have also dropped.

What are your thoughts?  Are you seeing signs of wolves?  What type of action needs to take place?  Or is this nature's course?

[bowtechman87]

If you want my honest opinion, then YES, wolves are takeing control of everything. I believe we need a season on wolves to control them so they don't destroy our hunting, or farmers dairy herd. I do most of my hunting in northern MN and they are a problem up there.

[proangler16]

Good topic and thread.  I deer hunted up in Pine River, MN this year for my second year in a row.  The first year our party of 4 went 4 for 4.  This year our party of 4 on opener weekend, then just my father and I the 2nd and 3rd weekend got blanked a big fat zero, we only saw 4 deer combined for all 3-weekends for Zone-1.  The four deer we saw was a pair my dad saw running in the woods and couldn't get a shot and the other two I saw I jumped but were two fawns and passed on them.  
Any how, I had two tail cams up both years on the land and this year I had wolf pics on the cams, but as it sounds like MN-State wide numbers are down too.  Also I read somewhere that the WI deer harvest numbers are also down 22% from last year too.          

Needless to say, if I can put two trail cams out on two deer trails and get wolf pics just out of the blue like that, there are too many of them around IMO.  Not sure what it's going to take to get some numbers down on the wolf population, for there's lot's of children that wait at remote bus stops in the woods up north????  C-mon government open your eye's and ears, but I bet most of them don't go out in the field too much and or hunt do they, or farm and have livestock???

[antlermass]

The wolves are definetly becoming a problem in our area,  We don't have any pictures on our trail camera, but we have seen a pack of them, and the neighbors have seen a few packs.

Horrible part about it is that times are tough, alot more people need that venison in their freezer to feed their families and usually they would be bringing home 3-5 deer and then this year they were only able to bring home 1-2 deer. 
 

[Auggie]

The old saying "if you don't do it yourself it never gets done right " applies here guys. I am sure you all own a shovel.

[guythathunts]

AUGGIE!!!!!!!! You stole my thunder!!!!!!!!! I wonder what Wolves tase like? No reason... Just woundering while I type it out. Good talk! I'm Out!

[proangler16]

I hear ya, the 3-S-rule comes out here.

Shoot
Shovel
Shut-Up!!!

 

[Auggie]

AUGGIE!!!!!!!! You stole my thunder!!!!!!!!! I wonder what Wolves tase like? No reason... Just woundering while I type it out. Good talk! I'm Out!

I here it tastes like eagle....... or was it loon or swan.

[Auggie]

I hear ya, the 3-S-rule comes out here.

Shoot
Shovel
Shut-Up!!!

 

Shut up being the key part to that equation. Don't even tell your brother.

[Cody Gruchow]

well if they thin out around auggies area then we know what happened

[stevejedlenski]

just so everyone is aware...
97A.245 REWARDS.
The commissioner may pay rewards for information leading to the conviction of a person that has violated a provision of laws relating to wild animals or threatened or endangered species of wildlife. A reward may not exceed $500, except a reward for information relating to big game or threatened or endangered species of wildlife, may be up to $1,000 and a reward for information relating to gray wolves may be up to $2,500. The rewards may only be paid from funds donated to the commissioner for these purposes and may not be paid to salaried conservation officers or peace officers.

you may not want to tell people of your intentions Auggie hahaha, better go cover up those graves a little better.. jk

[thunderpout]

My dads buddy (who recently passed away) lived up in Tofte his whole life, would always tell me he had a herd of deer in the winter years back... he'd swear as the wolves #'s increased, the herd got smaller and smaller over the years till that herd was just a few deer.  He was a great guy, but I kind of thought he may have been a bit prejudice or at least misjudging the situation... but the last few years where we deer/grouse hunt, north central MN, just south of Bemidji... I have started to see and hear wolves more frequently.  I saw a few while workin on deer stands and would hear a few at night while sittin round the fire in camp, but you'd hear more coyotes than wolves.  The last year or two, ya hear multiple packs goin off, very close to our stands, and near our camp... kind of cool to howl and "talk" to them at first, till ya wake up, and see fresh wolf scat 100 ft from your fire pit... that'll change your thinking on the subject.  twice this year up there, my setter Drummer, started growling, the hair on his back standing up like a hyena or somthing when we heard sounds in camp just out of the fires light.  All I know is we have doubled our deer camps hunters, and we're not seeing deer half as much as we have in the past.  Its easy math...  Now, every one has an opinion on whether the wolf should populate areas that they once roamed, and whether they have the same "rights" to the same game we humans hunt... and Im not sure exactly where I stand on all of that, but I do know one thing... we definatly should have the right to protect our livestock, bird dogs & other pets from them if theres a need to do so, and a hunting/thinning of populations that are getting too large in areas seems like common sense to me... Just because the rest of the nation doesnt have the #'s of wolves as we do, it shouldnt mean our state should have the same restrictions California, New York or Iowa has!  I think it definatly should be a state's decision as to what is listed/de-listed on protected lists and NOT the governments conservationists and special interest groups putting a blanket ruling on the entire country.  The people making these decisions have too much of the Walt Disney Euphorian mentality... and shouldnt be making decisions for the whole country...

[Auggie]

just so everyone is aware...
97A.245 REWARDS.
The commissioner may pay rewards for information leading to the conviction of a person that has violated a provision of laws relating to wild animals or threatened or endangered species of wildlife. A reward may not exceed $500, except a reward for information relating to big game or threatened or endangered species of wildlife, may be up to $1,000 and a reward for information relating to gray wolves may be up to $2,500. The rewards may only be paid from funds donated to the commissioner for these purposes and may not be paid to salaried conservation officers or peace officers.

you may not want to tell people of your intentions Auggie hahaha, better go cover up those graves a little better.. jk

:blablabla:Come find one. I dare you Steve. Actually The area I hunt is to far south and we do not have wolves. But you can bet if I hunted in an area it was a problem, it would become less of a problem one way or the other.

[Cody Gruchow]

i thought it was a dog chasing a deer it was an acciedent i swear

[kenhuntin]

Do you Think there was a reason why they used to have a bounty on them? Or was it just some Republican conservative that gave them a bad reputation? Protecting the Wolf must have been change we needed.

[thunderpout]

Ken... back then we thought wolves were big, bad & evil .... now, thanx to the discovery channel and the international wolf center, we all know the wolf is now cute, cuddly and everybodys friend!

[HUNTER2]

I talked to a trapper by my property and he said there is 4 packs of coyotes around there. I noticed on my trail cams this year every time I had a doe there was only 1 fawn. Last year I had multiple pictures with 2 fawns in them. I think they must get a bunch of deer also.

[Outdoors Junkie]

I hunt by Upper Red Lake.  There are a lot of wolves in that area.  I see a lot of tracks, scat, and have even come across deer killed by wolves (what left of them that is).  When a pack runs through an area we hunt, then there are barely any deer tracks for the following few days.  This year one of my buddies had one run by his stand.  It was in some thick brush and since he couldn't see if it was clear on the other side, it went on living.

I walk when we hunt and have had two times over the past 8 years that I have had them around me.  I was following a fresh deer track in the snow.  I followed this track a good 1/2 mile when I notice a wolf track next to the deer track.  Then pretty soon there were so many wolf tracks I couldn't see the deer track anymore.  Next, I saw a couple drops of blood and some hair.  I had a real uneasy feeling being deep in the woods knowing their was something out there in the brush just out of my view.  Then comes a howl that seemed like it was right next to me.  The hair on the back of my neck was standing.  Then there was a few of them howling.  I decided to change direction and head for a nearby clearing.  My heart was racing and I was looking around me in all directions as I high tailed it out of there.

Another year, (this is the one time I saw a pack) I was a good mile from the truck (into the deep state forest).  I saw movement in the brush, I could see a brown body and legs, I raise my gun and thought I would get a shot at a nice deer trotting by when I see a big bushy tail, then another, and another and another.  I stood their in shock and then I thought to myself, should I have shot and said nothing to everyone else?  I didn't have much time to ponder when 30 seconds later a doe comes running right at me with 2-3 wolves on her heels.  I shot the doe.  The wolves ran off.   I drug her out to a clearing before gutting her...thinking the entire time that next time I look up I might have a wolf standing there watching me.


I think we should be able to thin the increasing numbers of wolves.

[stevejedlenski]

im about 30 min north of camp ripley and so far i havent had any near my property and last time i cecked the deer population in ripley is still out of control with deer. maybe the wolves dont eat deer there. but i do agree with you that they will effect a population. im just glad i havent seen to many running around my area yet

[kenhuntin]

Like all things wolves need to be kept at populations that the environment can sustain. The Wildlife Science Center in Anoka has a few they feed and keep healthy. That is enough of a population and think the rest should be eliminated.

[Cody Gruchow]

there are a few around our area we hunt but not to many. well there might be more than we think. we happened across a deer carcass that had been eaten and we figured it was just a crippled deer that just died then we came across another carcass 5 days later. again figured it was just a deer that got away from a hunter. over a course of 4 months we found 7 deer carcass's. we noticed the tracks by the 3rd carcass and by the 5th carcass we called the DNR to come out and take a look at it, he comfirmed that it was wolves. said nothing we can do about it then told us not to leave pets unattended outside especially at night. also not to let little kids into the woods by themselves to play.

[Go Big Red!]

Great discussion so far I must say.

Our MN gun deer success has dropped to zero in the past 3 years.  Again, wolves are in the immediate area.

Now they are hitting the WI area I hunt.  I used to see deer all day long and now this past opening weekend, 2.  Both of which I missed. Anyways, it's becoming an issue that needs to be addressed.


Rewards etc.

Wolves are no longer endangered right?  What if it's not a gray wolf?  Say a black one?

[beeker]

the conspiracy theorist out there like to offer that the gov. protects the wolves so that at some point they can use the lack of need to control the deer population to take our rifles away.

fyi... not my theory I got to listen to a group of guys at a small bar way nort discuss this and the measures they already had been implementing to control this.

[stevejedlenski]

would by any chance these areas that used to have deer everywhere be intensive or management areas, because the area i hunt in is still intensive and i know the population dosnt need to be brought down. i guess its because its a few miles between two heavy traveled highways... the other areas around us are lottery. anyway do you think that maybe being able to take 5 deer a person may have  an impact where you are hunting? just wondering

[Go Big Red!]

Beeker-

As Heston said, "From my cold, dead hands".  I wouldn't go that far as to that the govt. is using this as a way to take our guns.  Just my opinion.

Does anyone think we'll have a boom to bust cycle with wolves?  For example, wolves eat everything in sight.  Bird numbers drop, rabbit numbers drop, deer numbers drop, and the wolves move on or die off. 

I believe this in happening now in Yellowstone with the wolves being introduced to control the elk herd numbers.  That got screwed up and now the elk numbers in and around Yellowstone are almost gone.  Thoughts?

[Go Big Red!]

Our zone in WI used to be herd control 2-3 years ago and now I don't believe it's even considered in the Anterless Only seasons.

Who counts our deer herds?  I would really like to know where they devise their numbers from cuz I think it's dropping.  And wolves are a BIG part of this.

Same guys who count grouse numbers right!?!

[Go Big Red!]

Just found this in a different forum from "repoman".  Can it happen here and HOW SOON???

BOISE, Idaho - Good news for gray wolves in the northern Rocky Mountains: They no longer need federal protection. The bad news for the animals? Plans are already in the works to hunt them.

Federal Endangered Species Act protection of the wolves was lifted Friday in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, giving those states management of the estimated 1,500 gray wolves in the region.

Even though environmentalists plan to sue the federal government next month to restore wolf protections, hunts are already being scheduled by state wildlife agencies to reduce the wolf population to between 900 and 1,250.

Story continues below ↓
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‘The world is watching’
Idaho hunters will be allowed to kill between 100-300 of the animals this fall under a plan approved by the Idaho Fish and Game Commission. The hunts are partly in response to increasing numbers of livestock being killed as the predators' population has grown.

"We manage big game for a living, we're good at it," said Steve Nadeau, who oversees large carnivores for the Idaho Fish and Game Department. "The world is watching and we know it."

Fish and Game estimates Idaho now has 800 gray wolves. Should the number of breeding pairs in Idaho fall below a target number, the animals could be brought back under federal protection.

After a series of public shouting matches between wolf advocates and opponents, comments from Idaho Department Fish and Game officials on Friday seemed largely designed to reassure both ends of the debate.

Cal Groen, director of the department, told reporters that his agency has already proven its ability to recover and maintain Idaho wolf populations. "We've exceeded all the goals the federal government set," Groen said.

But Doug Honnold, a managing attorney for the nonprofit environmental law firm Earthjustice, disagrees. Honnold said the wolf populations won't be fully recovered in Idaho and the northern Rockies until the animals number between 2,000 and 3,000.

Umbrella group plans lawsuit
Earthjustice, which represents 12 local and national environmental groups, plans to sue the federal government next month to continue wolf protections.

All three state plans to manage the wolves call for a reduction in their numbers, which will eventually lead to weaker breeding, Honnold said in a telephone interview from Bozeman, Mont.

"We think that would be a disaster," he said. "We've spent a lot of time, money and effort to promote wolf recovery."

Gray wolves were listed as endangered in 1973 after being hunted into near extinction, but the population has rebounded dramatically after restoration efforts began in 1995. The wolves were recently de-listed in the western Great Lakes, while the wolf population in the Southwest remains endangered.

Wildlife biologists estimate there are now 41 breeding pairs in Idaho, in 72 packs. If that number falls below 10 breeding pairs, or 15 during a three-year period, the wolves could be brought back under federal protection.

On Friday, Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter signed a bill to allow ranchers, outfitters and pet owners to kill wolves harassing livestock. The law gives owners up to 72 hours to report wolves they've killed after catching them annoying, disturbing or stalking animals or livestock

[stevejedlenski]

-big red

our deer populations are based on a number of things. 1 they use insurance claims on how many deer are hit by cars, 2 they fly over areas and try and count deer in a certian amount of area, the deer harvest from previous years, and theres a few others... really you can say its just a "educated" guess.

i like wolves, but i do think that the world has changed and now we are the main regulatory predators and we have to account for how much we take and the wolves. there is a carrying capacity for wolves and with humans in the picture its a lot less. there should be wolves left in the wild but they need to be regulated. look at cougars, they are large predators but they dont get out of control so easily as the wolves, there needs to be a regualtion on how many wolves can be in an area and any excess needs to be taken by "population control specialists" (hunters) it would be great if we could live in a world with wolves, but our world cant support that many predators anymore. i think eventually they will have to allow regulated hunting of the large predators.

[thunderpout]

I think they were delisted here recently, and then re- listed a month later after a lawsuit was filed... at least thats what I thought I read.....

[Go Big Red!]

Thanks for the count info Steve.  You are right, there are too many predators and we're on top.  I guess maybe I'm a bit frustrated and at the same time curious to learn more about the wolf populations.