QDM

[22lex]

This picture fits right in with the QDM discussions.

My friend and a few other guys have control over everything that happens on this land (400-500 acres). They consistently see deer like this every year and usually two out of four of them shoot a mature deer. They don't use food plots as the land is alfalfa, corn, and beans. They do however use minerals near the food.

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[HD]

That's a nice buck....Looks like a split G2?

Yep, if they got that kind of buffet, they won't need food plots.............

Hunter

[HD]

Anybody else got some good pics of deer?
I have zillions of doe and fawn pics, and some small bucks.

Clover is doing ok, some did wash away and will need to be re-seeded. I lost about 1/4 of the field. Oh, well............
I'll post a new pic when it comes in better.

DE...I sent you a PM


Hunter

[22lex]

I've got some nice pictures, just have to get the time to download them and share them with you guys.

We've had a lot less coyote pics this year than last, I wonder why that is? I know alot of people coyote hunt in the winter, but few of them actually shoot any down here.

[dakids]

I have a question for you QDM guys.  I read in an article that a 1.5 year old deer that is only a spike will never be more than a 7 pointer and should be taken out of the herd asap.  What are your opinions on this?

[bowhunter73]

 No, I disagree. I think the only time a yearling should be shot is by a new hunter if you are trying to practice any type of QDM. You will not see his potential until he is in his 3rd year then I would decide what to do with him.

[HD]

For me, I would have to know about how long the spikes are.
Say for example, you have a deer that apox 1.5 years old and has single spikes that are 10 inches long. In this situation I would harvest the deer.

Now if we are talking about a different situation were the deer is still 1.5, and the spikes are only 4 inches tall, I would wait till the following year to assess the deer. If he has not progressed, then I would harvest him.

Now for the reasoning...I have seen some deer that are "late bloomers" and have caught up to the pack later. This is why I would wait till the following year.
And the one with the 10 inch spikes, well, I'm pretty sure that he has some messed up genes or just poor nutrition...but for some reason is lagging behind. So, if you are sure about your food source and mineral sites, and you know the deer has what it needs (verified by trail cam's) Then it's time to harvest that animal.

Hunter

[deadeye]

Hunterdown,  unless you live on the property it can be very difficult to "know" every deer.  How do you know the deer with 10" spikes is the same deer you saw the year before?  I saw around a dozen bucks last year and I don't think I saw any one more than once.  I guess I'm just not very good at determining the difference between a cull buck and one that has great potential so I just let the smaller ones go.   

[HD]

Yep, that's a good point DE, if you don't live on the property and spend alot of time watching deer, it would be hard to "know" every deer.
The way I answered the question, is just what I would do.
In a previous post, I mentioned that I have 6 cameras going at a given time. And check them often, studying photo's is how I have always done it.

[HD]

I promised a progression report........
Well here is the clover plot after, I think 3 weeks.
The clover is coming in, and you can see where the rain did wash some of the seed away.
I did notice that the milk weed is progressing good....
I'll have to whack that off with the mower when the clover is good and established.
Some of the plot will have to be re-seeded, but will have to wait till next year.
Even as short as it is, the deer have been in it already.

Hunter

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[HD]

Cody, what did you end up doing with that food plot?

Mine is coming along, there are at least 4 to 6 deer in there a night...

Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

i tore (sp) up the corn and threw down some clover, there are a few deer in there every night also but it was hit hard to early so its having a tough time but its getting there. real disappointed in the way it turned up this year. but the other stand thats bordering corn feilds im off a major trail and see atleast 10 deer any given day.
 :offtopic:also seen my big buck im after today. was  driving past my stand on the road and he was standing not 10 yards from it, so im real excited for saturday morning so excited i could pee my pants.

also nothing real impressive on the cams either. got a little tired of looking at all small bucks, need to get a big boy on camera.

[muscleup71]

I live in the metro area in Minnesota, and the northern part of Scottsdale AZ, in the winter, and weekly management is tough.

i SET UP FEEDERS, AND MANAGE THE PREDATORS MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. he he.

But I do use management thought when pulling the string back.
I will let most bucks pass, except the MONSTERS!!

I prefer a 2-3 yr old doe for freezer meat.

[NDGUY]

yeh thanks for the prog. report, I did put down some chickoree(sp) and its growing great so far the deer here on on clover/alfalfa and resproting wheat after harvest everthings still real green

[dakids]

Another question.  A doe and her twin fawns stop in range.  You have the time to check the sexes of the fawns, one is a doe and the other is a buck.  Which of the 3 do you shoot?

We never shoot the buck fawn for obvious reasons.  We will shoot the doe fawn every time. Our reason for shooting the fawn is 2 fold. 1 best meat in the herd, and 2.  I believe that the mature doe will attract mature bucks more than the fawn.

What are your thoughts on the older does attracting better bucks?

[Big E]

I'm with you. We try to shoot doe fawns if we get the chance. The really don't do anything for the population just yet or attracting bucks.....unless it's one of the very small percent of fawns that come into estrus late.

[Cody Gruchow]

id would shoot the older doe, because the other fawn can reproduce for more years than the older one. only have a chance at attracting bigger bucks when theres a smaller herd of does.

[HD]

I would need more information on the situation.

My answer would be different if it was during early bow season or rifle.
And it would be different if you knew what your buck to doe ratio was.
But no, I wouldn't shoot the buck fawn either way.

And I would have to say for your last question, that I believe older does do attract bucks more often then fawns.


Hunter

[Cody Gruchow]

well yes the older does do attract bucks but like you said hunter unless your real positive about your buck to doe ratio then you cant be to sure that this particular doe will attract a buck later on or not. im also not saying that im expecting that fawn doe to produce young that year, but the year after and younger does usually give birth to twins each spring instead of an older doe giving birth to 1. but thats they way i manage it every single land owner has there own ways of doing it, there is no right and wrong way its just your way that you want it done. a bit of a ramble there

[HD]

Here is another pic of the clover plot I put in.........


Not looking to bad, but I still think I'll have to re-seed some of the spots that got washed away by the down pour.



I hope everybody's plots are doing good and everybody whacks a BIG buck!

(I know Cody won't! Cause he's looking for a tirty point doe!)       



Hunter

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[Auggie]

I hope everybody's plots are doing good and everybody whacks a BIG buck.




ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cody Gruchow]

does it count if i take a whole bunch of my antler sheds and glue them to her head?

my food plot is also doing alot better than the no good corn plot i had to tear up.

[HD]

aaaaaahhhhhhh.......don't you have to find a shed first?     

[Cody Gruchow]

got one little one sitting in my truck that i picked up when i was doing food plots at the beginning of the year...

[beeker]

hello... I'm new here, but thought this was as good a conversation as any to jump in if you guys don't mind. my brother and i own 40 acres up in mcgrath. we've had it a few years and have been working on creating food plots, bedding areas and trail system (the land was rather unmanaged when we purchased it). we manage the herd as best we can. we let the kids shoot when they have a good shot. the adults only shoot one 8 or better... or a doe.  now I've heard arguments both ways and would toss out a different opinion on does. isn't it better to leave the old does? they have a proven breading capability. wouldn't it be better to shoot the smaller ones that may have a harder time in the winter? and we shoot the ugly bucks when we see em. last year we had a 4 pointer one point on one side that was about 2" and 3 points on the other side like the legs on an old milk stool.  another question I would be curious to hear is how did you come about your equipment for the food plot? breaking new ground is tough and tougher on a budget

[HD]

Welcome to the site beeker!

I can help you with some of your questions.......

I like to keep older does around, but we manage them just like the bucks. If you can keep close watch on your doe numbers, and you have to many, then I would say yes, I would thin out a few younger ones. Trail cams help out in this aspect a lot.

And the plot equipment, I have a farm, so I use the same stuff. BUT, on a budget, you would be suprized on what you can get at a used farm implement dealer for cheap.
If you shop around you can find old sections of drags and small older discs that can be pulled behind a 4 wheeleer.

If you have more questions, I'll be happy to help!

Hunter

[beeker]

thanks hunter appreciate the offer I'm willing to take any advice I can. we have 4 wheelers.. a drag, sprayer, small disc...  we have a heck of a time getting anything to take. the only spots we've been successful is where we rented a tiller and ran around all after noon. so I'm thinking a single blade plow would work. we try to add 1 thing a year thinking that eventually we'll have everything we need. while we're doing this we're cutting trails, building the hunting shack. and all the fun stuff that comes with a hunting camp.

but to answer the original question QDM is viable. I doubt you could ever get a specific license for 8 or better kinda like they do out west with elk.

[Cody Gruchow]

well my uncle farms so i have the liberty to use his older stuff and he has some i can pull behind the wheeler so i go from there. as for bucks its 8 or better on our land and just about everywere i hunt its like that. i on the other hand will shoot just about any doe unless its a fawn. i see it as im shooting a doe for meat and age shouldnt really matter unless its a fawn. got to many of them around the way it is. heres a interesting question for you what do you typically like your buck to doe ratio to be at. me i like a little competition so the older bucks get to breed more on keeping my doe ratio down lets say 2-3 bucks to every 1 doe. may be wrong to some ppl but thats the way i do it and results have shown thats its working anyone else's thoughts

[HD]

Cody.....you ask'in me or beeker?

Cause you prolly already know my answer.

[bowhunter73]

well my uncle farms so i have the liberty to use his older stuff and he has some i can pull behind the wheeler so i go from there. as for bucks its 8 or better on our land and just about everywere i hunt its like that. i on the other hand will shoot just about any doe unless its a fawn. i see it as im shooting a doe for meat and age shouldnt really matter unless its a fawn. got to many of them around the way it is. heres a interesting question for you what do you typically like your buck to doe ratio to be at. me i like a little competition so the older bucks get to breed more on keeping my doe ratio down lets say 2-3 bucks to every 1 doe. may be wrong to some ppl but thats the way i do it and results have shown thats its working anyone else's thoughts

      I am no expert by any means but how many does would you have to kill in order to keep 2 to 3 bucks per one doe ratio? I would guess one heck of allot depending on the size to your land.

 And if you did have that ratio how would you keep the buck from going miles away in there quest to bread every fall? The only way I see this as a possibility is a high fence area.

 And let’s say it was a high fence it would need to be a huge area to support many deer (does) just incase you have a bad year and loose your low number of does to a hard winter, disease, or natural death of sorts. Then you would be out of baby makers.

 I like your #’s 3 to one but I am shooting for them the other way around 3 does to one buck
 A buck can bread up to four does with out to much stress on his body going into the winter.
And they will be more likely to stay around your land for a longer period of time, and safe from the other hunters around your place . Provided you have given them food and shelter