Switiching sides on APR

[deadeye]

I think I'm going to do a flip flop and change my position on APR.  Until this season, I was mostly against APR policies.  After seeing what I believe most of the 1.5 year old bucks in my area killed, I would like to have a little help from the law to save a few that could eventually become mature bucks.  Between the neighbors on each side of me, they shot 12 yearling bucks.  That is just the ones I have seen for myself.  I don't know how many others were taken.   
I had a few conversations with some of them and it doesn't look too promising for them to change their ways.  Here are some of the reasons they gave for shooting little bucks.
1. Those bucks would never get any bigger antlers because they are already     3.5 years old.  (all the bucks were around 125-130 pounds)
2. I already have a 12 point on the wall so I don't need to shoot another. (I asked his 15 year old granddaughter if she ever shot a 12 point buck)
3. There are no big bucks on this property.  (must be an invisible fence between our properties)
4. Have to feed the family.  (counted 15 cases of beer and numerous empty whiskey bottles - They could have replaced the venison with the best steak around for half what they spent on booze alone)
5. And the all popular, "I thought it was a doe".  (said the guy who shot a 5 basket rack).
6. And the one that really got to me. "You guys don't shoot them so we know there are a lot of them around" 

[dakids]

I to am doing a flip flop deadeye.  All of the litle bucks on our trailcams over the last month are now dead.  My 15 year old daughter passed several does hoping for a nice buck yet all are now dead.  It might be a hard sell as we are the minority.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Keep the faith and good luck with the neighbors.

[Swany]

I agree 100% with both of you. Granted, my rifle buck was only 2.5 but if I don't shoot him I can rest assured the neighbors would have.
A good friend of mine shot his first booner in se mn this year, and it won't be his last down there from the looks of his trail cams! Apr results speak for themselves as far as I am concerned!

[stevejedlenski]

although i agree with you that APR's would benefit you and me, some people just want to be in the woods having a good time with family and friends hunting deer. doesnt matter to them which is why they gave you every excuse they could. they probly dont realize it either but they just wanna have fun in the deer woods. i had the same thing happen to me this year, but i also realize i have a different outlook then these guys. just food for thought before you limit others freedom to shoot the deer they do.

[MnDeerStalker]

I have always been pro APR. It will not save all the yearlings but will help a good 1.5 year old can easily be a legal apr deer but there are also many that wont be. Even if you can save half then next year the same and some from the first year make it through again by year three many ppl would swing sides in my opinion but it hard to get them to see that all they hear is 3 years of no bucks even if thats not at all true. Meat hunters will always be meat hunters and there is nothing wrong with that, but if you are just a meat hunter and you have a  legal apr buck come in thats 130# and at the same time have another legal buck come in thats 160# wouldn't u rather shoot the bigger one its more meat right just a thought. Many ppl in my area are against apr but have started to let small ones walk because there is no meat on them. So apr is a win win for both sides he meat hunters will have to let them walk till they have the four on one side then fair game. But then the trophy hunters have to be fine with that and not complain and say "he needed another year or two" it is what it is so both sides have to meet in the middle. Just my .02

[Cody Gruchow]

well this is a touchy subject. I am Pro APR, but i have the luxury of 3 different private sections of land to hunt, a total of 700 and some acres. its hard to force people to shoot what you think is a shooter, because everyone has there own view on what is a trophy and whats not. for example alot of people shoot the first deer they see, because they may not see another one or get a shot at another one. some may argue that its a BS arguement but it is true in alot of cases, take my grandpa for example, he has hunted from archery opener until the end of rifle season so far and he hasnt even seen a deer yet..and he views a spike or a fork as a trophy, he just wants to shoot a deer... we try QDM up by park rapids on our 189 acre farm, but the problem is none of the neighbors do and that tract of land cant sustain to large of a deer herd to have them just stay. we do see larger bucks on camera, but thats at night and usually one of the  neighbors get them. its really frusterating...we practice QDM in the metro on the 400 acres i hunt, and the neighbors dont, but with a chunk of land that big it dont always matter what the neighbors do because you can sustain a decent sized herd and manage them how ever you want, and we are seeing more and more larger deer then 6 years ago when we started.  so i guess at the end of my rant is you cant force people to be "trophy" hunters.

[deadeye]

I'm not advocating or pushing for "trophy" hunting, just give the little bucks a chance to grow another year.  I really don't have an issue with shooting a 2.5 year old. It's just that the 1.5 year bucks are the dumbest things in the woods.  It's harder to shoot a fawn than a 1.5 year old buck. They just run around all day looking for doe when they don't even know why they are doing it.  Once they get to 2.5 they become much harder to hunt and maybe more of them will get older.   The argument about shooting the first one they see because they might not get another chance is does not work where we hunt.  If I can see 25-30 deer during the season, there is no reason a neighbor should think he might only see one.  There are not fences and I don't have any tied up.

[Cody Gruchow]

im not saying that, another factor is most people only do opening weekend. plus they would have to get rid of the over the phone/over the internet registration(even though i think they should) to many people would cheat the system. harder to do that in person. also mn is afraid if it puts to many restrictions on a animal that it could push people away. there #1 goal is for people to see deer and the deer to be harvested.

[wildlifeminnesota]

I think you are looking at this the wrong way, I am all for people doing  APR But on the other hand I can see some who want meat, I thing the law that will  both side is to take the party hunting out, I here more and more people talking that they buy exert tag in they wife name and they do not hunt,  If one who shoot a deer and tag out is done you will have more deer left, But if they can fill other tag they will take any deer they they can!!!

[Cody Gruchow]

They will never remove party hunting. That would be extremely tough to enforce and the state wants the deer harvested, they don't want the numbers to increase more then they already are..plus the extra money they make off it

[Mayfly]

No reason not to have APR's, AKA yearling buck protection. Its not a trophy reg, simply yearling buck protection.

No need to do away with on-line reg and over the phone. Just like baiting, its illegal and you'll never stop illegal things from happening, you just hope that the majority of people are good ethical people.

As far as too restrictive, aka telling people what to shoot. Lets take a look at our fish! We all pretty much support whats going on with slots ect.. because we now realize that in order to sustain a healthy population and year class etc, we need to have some protection in place. NO DIFFERENT with deer.

Lets keep the ball moving! Its time to change the way we manage our deer here in MN.

We are on our 3rd year of APR trial in Zone 3. If the majority supports it, which they did even before the trail things look pretty good but it comes down to the 2013 legislative session. We need to enact APR's once again in Zone 3.

Of its shot down then the rest of the state will suffer because it prob will not have momentum to spread.

I predict it will take a couple years but will spread like wild fire. Its what the majority wants and seeing what is happening in SE is amazing! Its always been a great place for deer but seeing and speaking to people that hunt down there, thecat is out of the bag. Its working!!

If you want to help the cause and support APR and stay up to date please join our facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnesota-Whitetail-Alliance/

And please go to our website and join our group. NO SPAM for registering:

http://www.mndeeralliance.com/

I'll leave you with a testimonial:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7daaqUjJlZQ[/youtube]



 

[deadeye]

I agree with everything the guy said except the part about all neightbors feeling the same way.  Some of my neighbors still want to kill every deer they see.  Lately my efforts to get them to let the little ones go has backfired.  They intensified their efforts to shoot little bucks because they feel there are more around because we don't shoot them.  Go figure.

[The General]

In my opinion doing away with party hunting is ridiculous in my area.  For example I used to party hunt with a group of 12.  Around here you circle a grove, corn field, etc.  The people who walk normally do not get a shot.  One area you push some deer out of and the next nothing.  Their are years I would go without shooting because it just happened that the deer were in the areas I was a walker and not a poster.  Then the next year I would be the lucky one and others wouldn't get a shot.  On the topic of antler restrictions in my opinion this should not apply to anyone under a certain age (not sure what that age should be maybe 16).  Shooting is the fun part of hunting for young kids and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

[wildlifeminnesota]

In my opinion doing away with party hunting is ridiculous in my area.  For example I used to party hunt with a group of 12.  Around here you circle a grove, corn field, etc.  The people who walk normally do not get a shot.  One area you push some deer out of and the next nothing.  Their are years I would go without shooting because it just happened that the deer were in the areas I was a walker and not a poster.  Then the next year I would be the lucky one and others wouldn't get a shot.  On the topic of antler restrictions in my opinion this should not apply to anyone under a certain age (not sure what that age should be maybe 16).  Shooting is the fun part of hunting for young kids and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

That would be call driving, The party I was more taking about is you shooting other deer for them,

[The General]

In my opinion doing away with party hunting is ridiculous in my area.  For example I used to party hunt with a group of 12.  Around here you circle a grove, corn field, etc.  The people who walk normally do not get a shot.  One area you push some deer out of and the next nothing.  Their are years I would go without shooting because it just happened that the deer were in the areas I was a walker and not a poster.  Then the next year I would be the lucky one and others wouldn't get a shot.  On the topic of antler restrictions in my opinion this should not apply to anyone under a certain age (not sure what that age should be maybe 16).  Shooting is the fun part of hunting for young kids and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

That would be call driving, The party I was more taking about is you shooting other deer for them,

Well buying your wife a tag and her sitting at home while you're out shooting her deer is already illegal.

[deadeye]

General, I believe the APR currently does not apply to anyone under 18. 

[HD]

The only issue I have with APR's is that I am not gonna limit my daughter on what she can and can not harvest. She is happy with what she gets, and that is fine with me.

[ray634]

Youth hunters 10 to 17 are exempt from antler restrictions. They also get antlerless permits where allowed.

I do think that APR would help bring about a more balanced herd ratio. If everyone is restricted to 4 point or better fewer would be apt to shoot small deer thinking that the next party would if they did not.
If someone is out meat hunting they can shoot a doe and get more meat that by shooting a spike, in most cases.

[The General]

Thanks deadeye and that seems like a good idea.


I also agree with hd.


My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this.

[dew2]

Thanks deadeye and that seems like a good idea.


I also agree with hd.


My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this.

But those are the Kings (gubments)deer.Started in sherwood forest.

[Swany]

"My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this."

That is a nice sentiment, but the deer are a natural resource for the state of MN, managed by the state of MN, and their property. So. if APR's were implimented statewide a hunter can either follow that set of rules to harvest deer legally, choose not to kill deer legally, or not hunt altogether.

[Mayfly]

My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this.

Is that what you say about Pheasants as well?? This is america and i'll shoot a hen if i damn well want to. Its my property! 

[lentz]

the state owns the deer untell you register them

[The General]

 wow you guys are blowing that way out of proportion.  Im allowed to shot one buck or doe with my lic.  On my property no one should tell me what size i can or can't shoot.  If you want to tell me what size i can take on public property i might feel different.  If that's what the majority wants not just a select few with access to prime hunting land. 

[The General]

"My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this."

That is a nice sentiment, but the deer are a natural resource for the state of MN, managed by the state of MN, and their property. So. if APR's were implimented statewide a hunter can either follow that set of rules to harvest deer legally, choose not to kill deer legally, or not hunt altogether.

If that's true then i should be able to hunt anyone's property any time i feel like it beings it a natural resource for the state.

[The General]

Maybe do like other states and have people have to apply for a buck tag instead of a doe tag.  Seems to work in south dakota. 

[The General]

 

My biggest thing with this is that this is america and no one should tell another man what he should do with deer on his property in regards to this.

Is that what you say about Pheasants as well?? This is america and i'll shoot a hen if i damn well want to. Its my property! 

That would be breaking the law.  Antler restrictions only help those who want bigger antlers.  does nothing much else like not shooting hens.   Let me guess the next restriction you all will want is all bucks have to be 150 class or better.  Then we'll all need to take a government provided class to be able to score a running deer in the field and on and on. 

[kenhuntin]

I stand with the General on this issue and second his opinion. Each and every hunter should be able to control his legal take as he sees fit. It is ubsurd to have someone dictate what is good for all because of the wishes of another.

[mathews4ever]

I stand with the General on this issue and second his opinion. Each and every hunter should be able to control his legal take as he sees fit. It is ubsurd to have someone dictate what is good for all because of the wishes of another.

I couldn't have said it better myself..

[dakids]

no need for name calling please.