What would you do?

[dakids]

First off I will give you a little bit of backround.
I hunt on state land. I have hunted this particular bottleneck the last 4 years.  I know that I don't own the land and have no right to it.  This will be the first year my daughter will be hunting with me.  We are both excited about it.  I took her out to the tree that she will be using her climbing treestand on and practiced a month ago. I will be on a different tree 3 feet away.  Over the last weekend we did it again since we were up looking for fresh deer sign.  What we found was pretty disapointing.  A different hunter has erected a very flimse ladder stand about 15 yards from the spot we were going to hunt.  They have brushed out a path to the logging road and hung marking ribbons every 10 yards.  I don't use ribbons because I use my GPS in the dark.  I think the stand belongs to one of the 2 younger hunters from across the road from the cabin.  Last year they both walked out to there stand after the sun came up.  There is also a diferent stand about 200 yards away that is marked in a similar way.  It is a hang on stand that is only about 6-7 feet off of the ground.  Both of these stands are not very safe.  Both are very loose.  The ladder stand is only held onto the tree with a thin piece of old rope.

I don't want to spoil my daughters hunt, and she really wants to hunt from the tree that I killed my best buck from.  I also don't want to piss the neighbors off. 

What would you do?
1. Get there early and hunt the spot and hope they leave.
2. Try to find the owner friday night before opener and ask them to hunt on the other side of the bottle neck.
3.  Get there early, hunt until they get there and talk to the owner and tell them they can hunt there stand after 12:00 and then the following day. 
4.  Have my daughter hunt with my mother in the heated box blind, and I hunt in a different spot

My daughter will hunt with my mother in the heated box blind on sat. night and again on sunday morning befor I take her home for school on monday. 

[BiggA]

The perills of public land hunting! What a crappy deal but thats how public land is most often. You should always have a backup spot planned which it sounds like you do. I would have her sit with mom rather than take the chance of ruining opening morning for her hunting 15 yds from someone else.

[MNBucKKiller]

yup id choose # 4 also, less likely you will get into an arguement, but id hunt near by, maybe in a spot that cuts them off so they don't come back

[Randy Kaar]

I agree with MNBuck, If they knew you were gonna hunt there, Get the deer before they have
a shot. If they didnt know you were there before, You need to find another spot.
If it is public land, Dont think they can leave a portable there overnight. Or thats how it used
to be.

randy

[HUNTER2]

I would notify the warden and he will take the stands down. It is public land and you can't leave stands over night. I ran into the same thing when I used to hunt public land. I would get out there early and then these guys would come out and get up in there stands that they had out a couple days earlier.  

[HD]

If it's public hunting land, they need to be packed in every day, and packed out every night.
Permanent stands are a no-no...and become public property if errected. You could even sit in their stand, (if left) and they could say nothing.

If it was just you hunting, I would make sure I was there early. But, since your daughter is involved...I would go to a different plan incase of a disagreement.

Rules are clear on hunting public land....and so far, from what you have stated, they are in the wrong. You could even call a CO now, and have the stands removed by the CO.

Tuff deal.....

[HD]

  Hunter2 posted the same time I did...........

[Cody Gruchow]

well unfortuantly even though its not legal to build a permanant stand on public land it happens alot. i was up in the huntersville public hunting land and seen quite a few permanant deer stands that have been built, even talked to a guy at the camp ground we were at that claims like 3 or 4 of them.

i would get away from all problems that could end badly, so i would say have her sit with your mom, its the safest way and she would be quite comfortable im assuming. then i would sit in my original spot and after the hunt have a few words with the guys/kids, just give them the 411 on all the rules and tell them you planned on bringing your daughter out there but they set there stands up to close for your comfort. anyways good luck with it

[Stensethfan]

I agree with Cody.  If that was my situation I would have my daughter go with mom so she is away from any possible fireworks.  You never know how the other people are going to take to you being there.  I would then get there earlier than they will be there and hunt as planned.  Hopefully they would get discouraged and move somewhere else.  If they do, bring your daughter back there the next day.

[beeker]

 stick the kid with ma, so she gets to avoid the conflict. call the CO, let them deal with the stands and the trails cut out which are illegal to do aswell. I hate hunting public land for this reason. you never know how people are going to react and if you walk up and try to talk to them they're most likely going to get defensive instantly.

[dakids]

The stand is in the chipawa nat. forest, and it is my understanding that you are allowed to place a manufactured ladder stand on forest land 2 weeks in advance of the season.  The person has no rite to the stand if someone beats them to the stand as it becomes public property.  It is not straped to the tree very tightly.  I climbed up 3 steps and when I leaned backward the stand pulled away from the tree 2 inches.  Scared my daughter.  She thought that I was going to fall. 

After thinking about it for a while I am planning on using a popup blind in 1 of my other spots,  Depending on the wind.  All of the brushing out they did might have a little bit of a negative impact on the spot.  I am planning on talking to the owner and helping them if they are open to sugestions.  Use a rachet strap to secure the stand to the tree. Not brushing out a path  so close to the season.  Its a good spot and there is room for a second stand in the funnel.  The spot I am talking about is on the south side of the bottle neck that is about 150 yards wide with an ability to see only about 50 yards.  As long as they are willing to think safety first and respect others I would consider hunting the bottleneck with them.  I will be up there for 10 days and have many days to fill my tag.  It is my priority to make sure my daughter enjoys her first hunt and to come home alive.  Getting a deer will be icing on the cake. 

PS  there are at least 6 permanent stands within a mile that I have found that are WAY to high.  30 plus feet high.  I have them GPSed and am planning on giving them to the local CO. 

   

[beeker]

I pulled up the hand book as I know this stuff changes all the time and what was once true isn't always the case... heres what I found.

for state lands
Elevated Scaffolds
• The use of portable tree stands is recommended, especially those
which can be secured without driving nails into trees. Nails are
a safety hazard for woodcutters and harm the forest. Personal
property must be removed from State Forest lands. It is illegal to
destroy state property, including the cutting of trees for shooting
lanes. Littering and erecting permanent buildings are prohibited.
• Any permanent unoccupied stand or blind on public land is public
and not the property of the person who constructed the stand.

for federal lands

The use of nails, wire, screws or bolts to attach a stand to a tree, or
hunting from a tree, into which a metal object has been driven or
screwed to support a hunter, is prohibited. Portable or temporary
hunting blinds or stands can only be set up the day of the hunt,
and must be removed at the end of each day.


not sure if this helps

[dakids]

thank you Beeker.  It has changed.

[wildlifeminnesota]

I have hunted on state land for year. It is illegal to build permeate stand on state land. It is also illegal to leave your portable stand on state land as well. This I have been told from game waded. And what I have done for year now.
If you see a permeate stand on state land tear it down do not site in it because if a waded see you in it he can fine you and he can have you remove it from state land. Even if you are not the one that build it. If you site in it. The deer stand  could also fall down and you could get hurt or kill. I also tear deer stand all year long on state land. 
Personal
property must be removed from State Forest lands when you leave. You leave a portable deer stand at your own risk.
  If you come a cross a portable portable tree stand that is left over night you can take the stand and it is now your. The people that leave there portable deer stand know that if they come back and there portable stand is gone there is nothing they can do because they have forfeit. It is illegal to leave them at the end of the day
.
If I see a guy bring his portable stand in and he leave it for lunch I would leave it alone but if I see a guy leave after night fall it is your if you want to hula it out.
 
Two year a go I went in to hunt this state land in the morning and set up my portable stand as in got light out I could see this portable deer stand about 50 feet from me I was there all day and did not see know one come to that stand it got dark out and I took my portable deer stand back to the truck and then came back for that portable stand.
Do not do this with your kids are with you.

[Cody Gruchow]

so let me get this straight, you find a stand and take it thats on public land just because you can? to me breaking the law or not its not right and not anyones place to tear down or steal anothers property other than a CO. if you have a really big problem with the stands there do the right thing and call the CO, but taking matters into your own hands wont always turn out that well because you dont know whos out there and what there capable of or how they will react reguardless if you have the "right" to do it.

[schwinger]

I agree with you Cody.

I hunt public land every year and leave my stand in the woods for the weekend. I am in the woods before light and out after dark. If for some reason I got a late start and came in to someone else near my stand I may decide to find another spot and not bother the guy/gal and come back tomorrow. If I came back the next day to find my stand gone, I would be pissed.

That is a just wrong, whether legal or not.

[beeker]

from what I read anything left becomes state property and not finders keepers. but I think if a CO busts you sitting in a permanent stand regardless of who built it you get the blame.

[Cody Gruchow]

yes you get the blame if you sit in it. also what if a CO comes along as your tearing one down? whats to say you didnt put that one there and decided to take it down? in my opinion its just better to leave them alone. why put the problem on you when it could come back to bite ya?

[Moving2thecountry]

I would find another spot.  Picking a fight with hunters doesn't seem smart.  I have in the past while hunting rabbits and pheasant on public land come across unoccupied stands left by bow hunters. 

Like an idiot, I climbed them and rested, with my dog below.  I did not know I could get in trouble.  Thanks for the information. 

Even so, I don't do this anyway because I decided it's not smart to climb a stand alone without any linesman equipment.

[BiggA]

I am pretty sure it is legal to construct stands on state forest land. Just depends on how they are built. WMA's are a whole different thing and it is not legal do so in them. However you cannot kick someone out of your stand you left if they find it.As far as taking someones stand they left behind thats just wrong.

[Outdoors Junkie]

I am pretty sure it is legal to construct stands on state forest land. Just depends on how they are built. WMA's are a whole different thing and it is not legal do so in them. However you cannot kick someone out of your stand you left if they find it.As far as taking someones stand they left behind thats just wrong.

I do believe that State Forest land is the only public land that permanat stands are legal.  Although it is "recommended" to use portable.

[22lex]

The county owned land that I bear hunt up north allows the construction of permanents, and also allows you to leave portables out there for an extended period. In this area if you come across your stand and someone is in it, you can't make them get out of it (which seems fair to me).

As for the comments of taking peoples stands, this one touches a nerve for me because I have had a couple over the years stolen from private land that I hunt on. I guess I only have a couple aspects I would like to clear up;

1. If you think you are doing a service for the DNR by taking portables from the woods on state land, then turn them into the DNR and ask them to donate them to a good cause, don't throw it in your garage 'cause it makes it seem like stealing.

2. You can nit pick all you want about the laws, some first time hunters don't know all of the rules regs in state and WMA land, and by legally stealing thier only stand, they may be opposed to hunting, ie; one less brother in the field and one more person who will teach this to their children.

I'm not saying this stuff to make anyone mad, just trying to portray a different perspective of the people on the receiving end of a surprise when they enter the woods in the morning and find their climber or portable is gone. If it is that big a deal, warn them that the law states you need to take personal property out of the woods before they leave.

[deadeye]

Very well put 22lex. 

[HD]

Yea........I ain't to keen on pinching someones else's stand either.

I guess I was brought up with a thing called "morels" (spelling could be off, but you get the drift)


But, to get back to the original post.....it sounds like you have a good plan Dakids, so I would go with that.


Hunter

[wildlifeminnesota]

Yes it is legal to construct stands on state land. It is also legal for you to site in this permanent stand regardless of who built it you get the blame. Yes I do tear permanent stand down and clean it all up. I do not do this right be for deer hunting or as people are hunting in lest it is haft down anyways. These stands are garbage just like I would see a pop can or a pill of cigar buds from some hunter ashtray and a lot of the stands I do take down are unsafe to be up and have been there for a really time. I am not an asshole about it. But I do think if more people would clean up are state land we can leave the next generation good land to hunt or walks in. I also look at it like I do save people from climbing these stands and falling out and being hurt or kill as well.

As far as portable tree stand. yes I have taking some of these But yes I do call my friend are local CO be for I do so he is know what is going on these stands are not to be left in the wood over night and No I am not  steal these stands they have been left . I do not keep these stands for my self. I do give them to are local young gun club so they are being use by the club. If you leave your portable tree stand in state land over night this is legal and you could lose your stand you know this as you walk away from it. So think about it first.

 As far as a new hunter that dose this and he lose their deer stand. ,( some first time hunters don't know all of the rules regs in state and WMA land,)

As my friend of mine a CO would said if you do not know the laws is know defense. As the guy that has never fish go out fishing and has 20 walleyes in he live well. He will be fine. As he is legally wrong. That is like if I was Deer hunting  and I shot a 10 point buck and use a dose tag that is legal wrong a I would be fine and may lose my gun my truck or my boat and fishing rods you are wrong!

As my friend a CO said If he had to come out to take all these stand down on all the call he get he would have no time to dill with nothing else. I have never had a problem with a hunter or a CO. Like I said I am not a asshole about it. There are right time to do this and there are wrong time as well.
I am talking about state land not county land.

[Cody Gruchow]

this is a touchy subject but it seems most of us would be in favor of just leaving the perm stands or portable stands alone. does anyone really have that much time that they spend there day tearing down stands that belong to others and dont belong there? i know i dont. now if they are crappy unsafe stands i still say leave them alone, if someone falls out of it due to poor construction i say its there fault, you can jump in anyones stand yes but do you really trust other peoples construction of them out there? i know i wouldnt. everyone has there way of dealing with things and there own veiw of it. but i see it as a problem that could easily be avoided if you just left things alone.

[22lex]

Wildlife MN, I can definately see your point, and truthfully respect it.

You are right in taking down stands that may cause harm to someone if they had been left there for a long time. You are also right that leaving portables in the state lands year after year is the same as garbage, and you are doing a service to everyone by picking up the "trash" 'cause I have seen those trash stands as well in state/WMA's that look like they would topple over if a squirrel sat in it.

I am only talking about overnight stands and climbers that people leave out there in the afternoons or overnight. If you want to compare leaving a stand out overnight to harvesting 20 walleyes, and tagging a buck with a doe tag (both of which carry consequences that you can lose a heck of alot more than "overnight stand leaving").....and getting an ok from a CO to lift the stand.....I guess if you paint a turd blue, it's still a turd.

Like I said, this is a sore subject for me (portable stands) and I can see WildlifeMN's point on wanting to leave the area the same for the next generations.

And for all of you out there who are a-holes that just go out there to steal stands, 
YOU!

P.S. sorry for bogarting you thread DaKids, good luck in your dilemma.

[wildlifeminnesota]

Cody G, We agree on one thing and that this is a (touchy subject) 
Now I will tell you why.
About ten year ago me and my best friend and this boy was go to hunt this state land. We got up to the spot that we thou we was going to have a good hunting trip. We were wrong! So we had are map and we have been their be for and look around. So we got their in the dark and we when to the spot that we were going to site a hunt. About an hour and half when by and I here a shot. So I set their and wait for the sign that the deer was down as time when by no sign so I thou it was a miss or it came from other hunter. So it was getting to the time we planed on meet back at the truck for some food and talk about are morning. So I went back to the truck then my friend come walk up. I ask him were you boy at. he said oh he went to site in that deer stand we had see when we all came up here. He should be coming up here soon so I ask him if he here that shot this morning he said yes I thou that was you. I told him no I had thou it was you or you son.( sorry)this is really hard) So about 10min or so went by and we call him name and got no answer .So we went to fine him. we stated for that deer stand and as we got closer we calling for him but sill no answer  as we got their to fine out that his boy had clime this deer stand and the stand had fall apart and this gun when off and had shot him in the head and kill him.

As I said this is a very touchy subject. It is legal to construct stands on state land and from that point on I have tear permanent stand down. I will never stop.
 
For the people that build these stands think about this. You build your stand and when you do not hunt in that stand and it get older by the years this could happen to some one down the road. Just like the guy that builds this stand!! And you are breaking the law.

For the people that see these stands do not site in them. Because this could happen to you! And you could get blame for that stand a be fine.
 
Cody, If you think it take all day to take down a stand you are wrong I would take it down in less then an hour it would be in the back of my truck Just like I would clean up grange that some as dump off in the woods or at a boat landing It dose not take that long and if you think by leaving that stand up you are wrong. If some one would have tear this stand down this boy would sill be here today!

For the people that see this garbage and just walk a way because you do not want to get involved or you are not the one to put the garbage there so you do not clean it up. Think about this if we all walk a way and it start filling are state land and are public landing up with garbage. The state will close these land down and their will be no public land for you to put your boat in the lake or for you to take your kids hunting.
 
22lex, Thank you. For see my point on this.

DaKids, I am also sorry for boarding you thread. This is what I would do in your case. For this year I would have her sit with mom. If you hunt this spot year after year. I would come back in March or June and tear down these stands. If you come back next year and a new one is build you will know that their will be a hunter hunting in that new stand. Good luck. I also hope she has a good hunt this year.

[dakids]

I have been going back and forth about this spot.  My daughter will be hunting with my mom in the heated box blind.  I am currently planning on getting out there 90 min before legel shooting if the wind is right for this spot.  It is my favorite spot and I don't want to just give it up.  The other hunters stand is a metel factory ladder stand that looks pretty old.  I wouldn't pay 5 bucks for it.  There are 5 other bottle necks within a half mile and they all are in a circle.  Kind of like a pinwheel.  Some of the other bottlenecks are more open and ALL of them have big, high, perminant tree stands in them.  They all belong to a neighbor about 3/4 mile down the road.  3 years ago he told me "Don't come any farther east or we will be right on top of each other and that will be a big problem."  I didn't want to start a war because his brother is our next door neighbor.  These stands all have rubber walls and roofs and most are at least 20 -30 feet up.  I hate that they have claimed a part of the national forest and I don't want to become that same person to the new hunter in my favorite spot.  It really sucks both ways. 

This winter My brother and me are planning on going up and cutting down all of these stands when there is little chance that they will be out there to catch us.  They go south in the winter.  I would probaby have just let it go and not cut them down except that I was talking with his brother (our neighbor) and his brother from down the road pulls into his driveway and starts complaining about the n****** (his words not mine)at his work and if he ever seen one up here during the season he would shoot them.  I have an adopted black son and it was all that I could do to just walk away without decking the SOB.  About 3 weeks later I had my entire family up there and our next door neighbor did a double take and didn't wave.  I think he felt pretty stupid and emberassed about his brother. 

One thing that bothers me is what an older(65) year old black friend always said, "Hate begats Hate"  I have tried to turn the other check but now feel that I need to stand my ground. 

Sorry about rambling on but deer hunting is my passion and this is getting hard for me to sort out.  I don't talk about any of this in front of my kids for obvious reasons and want to set a good example.  Thanks for letting me vent.  I feel better already.  I still might not cut down the stands and I might not ever hunt my favorite spot again.  I might just find a new favorite spot with a bigger buck in it. 

I think I'm starting to turn into GG    Nope I'll still gut my own deer.

[HD]

That's one thing I'll never see is, is "color".....
What, I mean is: I take people for what they are, and not the color of ones skin.
I have met both good and bad, in all "races" (and, I don't even like using that word)
People, are people....doen't matter what they look like, but more how they act towards others.
That's prolly why I like working with special needs children....they have no concept of the bigatry (sp) that goes on around them. They just need someone to love them and spend time with them....... just like everybody else.

See what you got me doing? Going off on a tangent............   

Naw, Dakids...I wouldn't stoop to their level. Your a good man...I can tell.
You will make the right decision!
And, venting is good........


Hunter